Team for Argentina

[Banquo]

Not a bad side at all. Still annoys me that Launch is benched, he's better than both Kruis and Lawes imo, comfortably so in fact.

I don't understand it either.
I can understand Gatland not rating him but for Eddie to be doing the same seems bloody odd.

Maybe, it's just Eddie letting Borthwick choose his mate, Kruis?

yeah, that'd be just like Eddie...

[Oakboy]

I don't understand it either.
I can understand Gatland not rating him but for Eddie to be doing the same seems bloody odd.

Maybe, it's just Eddie letting Borthwick choose his mate, Kruis?

yeah, that'd be just like Eddie...

Good point. It's hard to explain, though. Perhaps, we'll get the true order of locks with the Australia selection. Eddie (and Borthwick) will pick Itoje and Kruis, I'd expect.

[Digby]

This, for the 3rd time!

We're running out of time

That's just what I expected you to do

Get that finger out of your ear

[kk67]

I don't understand it either.
I can understand Gatland not rating him but for Eddie to be doing the same seems bloody odd.

Maybe, it's just Eddie letting Borthwick choose his mate, Kruis?

yeah, that'd be just like Eddie...

So completely unlike Eddie thinking Farrell at 12 is the way forward.

[Mikey Brown]

Aye. On the lock thing I’d like to think it’s just that Eddie has some plan regarding the combos he’d like to see and in which games. It’s odd really how he can be 4th in many people’s minds, yet acknowledged as the best at both scrum and lineout. Says something for the talents of the other 3 about the field.

[Banquo]

Maybe, it's just Eddie letting Borthwick choose his mate, Kruis?

yeah, that'd be just like Eddie...

So completely unlike Eddie thinking Farrell at 12 is the way forward.

say what? because, yes, it is. One is a compromise, which one can see the logic for, even if you disagree; the other, you appear to be claiming, is Eddie bowing to pressure from one of his team....which is hardly in character.

[kk67]

In a rugby world of diminishing reward from the set piece, you'd think that the best loosie lock would be first choice.
And Launch is the best 2nd row in the loose....there's really no doubt about it. He has the hands of a decent back with vision.
The rest don't. They're good,.....but none of them link like Launch.

[Banquo]

Aye. On the lock thing I’d like to think it’s just that Eddie has some plan regarding the combos he’d like to see and in which games. It’s odd really how he can be 4th in many people’s minds, yet acknowledged as the best at both scrum and lineout. Says something for the talents of the other 3 about the field.

aye. It must be about the set piece, and attitude (imo, in the latter case- Eddie doesn't seem to deem Launch as 'hard' enough. BS I say)

[Banquo]

In a rugby world of diminishing reward from the set piece, you'd think that the best loosie lock would be first choice.
And Launch is the best 2nd row in the loose....there's really no doubt about it. He has the hands of a decent back with vision.
The rest don't. They're good,.....but none of them link like Launch.

well your first point isn't true- the set piece is still vital, esp lineout, in terms of point scoring, even if multi-phase occupies more of the game. I'm not arguing about the merits of Launchbury, who I'd pick (even tho your comments are hyperbole), I'm disputing that he is picked because Eddie is acquiescing to Borthwick- its not his style.

[kk67]

In a rugby world of diminishing reward from the set piece, you'd think that the best loosie lock would be first choice.
And Launch is the best 2nd row in the loose....there's really no doubt about it. He has the hands of a decent back with vision.
The rest don't. They're good,.....but none of them link like Launch.

well your first point isn't true- the set piece is still vital, esp lineout, in terms of point scoring, even if multi-phase occupies more of the game. I'm not arguing about the merits of Launchbury, who I'd pick (even tho your comments are hyperbole), I'm disputing that he is picked because Eddie is acquiescing to Borthwick- its not his style.

I'm prepared to acquiesce to your better knowledge (as you have sky and I won't buy the Murdoch shilling like the RFU have done).
But you should know the set piece is becoming less.

[bitts]

Billy is up there with the best 8s in the world. Having him in the side is a massive boost. He's miles ahead of Hughes and Morgan.

The issue is that we can't build a game plan around him because a) we have noone else like him and b) he's injury prone.

This is why plan B shouldn't just be find a worse version of Billy, it should be finding a way we can play using the strengths of the other guys.

er bit contradictory, as you are saying we can't have a plan A including Billy

No, I'm saying our game plan shouldn't hinge on having a Billy fit because we have no like for like replacement. Basically, we shouldn't put our eggs in one basket. Especially when that basket has a history of breaking.

[bitts]

Billy is up there with the best 8s in the world. Having him in the side is a massive boost. He's miles ahead of Hughes and Morgan.

The issue is that we can't build a game plan around him because a) we have noone else like him and b) he's injury prone.

This is why plan B shouldn't just be find a worse version of Billy, it should be finding a way we can play using the strengths of the other guys.

er bit contradictory, as you are saying we can't have a plan A including Billy

No, I'm saying our game plan shouldn't hinge on having a Billy fit because we have no like for like replacement. Basically, we shouldn't put our eggs in one basket. Especially when that basket has a history of breaking.

[Mikey Brown]

Yes. Shame on you all round, Banquo.

[kk67]

Yes. Shame on you all round, Banquo.

Dasher started it. I just agreed.

[kk67]

aye. It must be about the set piece, and attitude (imo, in the latter case- Eddie doesn't seem to deem Launch as 'hard' enough. BS I say)

I reckon it's about pace.

[Banquo]

In a rugby world of diminishing reward from the set piece, you'd think that the best loosie lock would be first choice.
And Launch is the best 2nd row in the loose....there's really no doubt about it. He has the hands of a decent back with vision.
The rest don't. They're good,.....but none of them link like Launch.

well your first point isn't true- the set piece is still vital, esp lineout, in terms of point scoring, even if multi-phase occupies more of the game. I'm not arguing about the merits of Launchbury, who I'd pick (even tho your comments are hyperbole), I'm disputing that he is picked because Eddie is acquiescing to Borthwick- its not his style.

I'm prepared to acquiesce to your better knowledge (as you have sky and I won't buy the Murdoch shilling like the RFU have done).
But you should know the set piece is becoming less.

I'm ashamed to be a schill.

The set piece remains vital.

[Banquo]

Billy is up there with the best 8s in the world. Having him in the side is a massive boost. He's miles ahead of Hughes and Morgan.

The issue is that we can't build a game plan around him because a) we have noone else like him and b) he's injury prone.

This is why plan B shouldn't just be find a worse version of Billy, it should be finding a way we can play using the strengths of the other guys.

er bit contradictory, as you are saying we can't have a plan A including Billy

No, I'm saying our game plan shouldn't hinge on having a Billy fit because we have no like for like replacement. Basically, we shouldn't put our eggs in one basket. Especially when that basket has a history of breaking.

Very good, your plan B is the same as your plan A, posting wise.
I was only taking the mickey mildly; but if you dont put all your eggs in the Billy basket, and he gets hurt, then why do you need a different plan?

[Banquo]

aye. It must be about the set piece, and attitude (imo, in the latter case- Eddie doesn't seem to deem Launch as 'hard' enough. BS I say)

I reckon it's about pace.

don't reckon Launch is much slower than Kruis, or Lawes tbh, if at all.

[kk67]

It's not a contest. Launch is the player.

[Scrumhead]

Personally, I don't think it's a stretch to say we have 4 of the top 10 locks in world rugby right now (alongside Retallick, Whitelock, Etzebeth, AWJ, J. Gray and Coleman).

A year ago, I would have said Launchbury and Itoje were the best of our locks but Lawes has really closed the gap. He's starting to look like the player we hoped he would become when he first broke through.

I still think Launchbury and Itoje are the best players on balance but that doesn't mean that they're the best combination.

Kruis is arguably the least talented player but I think we've all forgotten who good he can be. Yes he had a poor game in the first Lions test, but that is honestly one of the only poor games I've seen him have. He was just unfortunate that it was such a high profile game.

Eddie apparently rates Kruis as th best scrummager and best lineout operator and his partnership with Itoje shouldn't be underestimated either.

[fivepointer]

Shades of Simon Shaw with Launchbury. Fabulous player but overlooked in favour of other - admittedly - very good ones. Destined to get fewer caps than his talent deserves? Quite possibly.

If there was any justice Launch would be a permanent presence in the England side. He's obviously easily good enough. And yet, one could say the same about the other contenders as they all have their undoubted strengths.

I think there's a view that the others are a little more adept in the line out and maybe scrummage just a bit harder. But really its very marginal.

[Oakboy]

I did not watch Kruis against NZ. Might it be that he struggles against the very best? That would confirm my suspicion that he is the least talented of the four. All the other three have stood up to be counted no matter who the opposition is. No doubt we will find out in the course of the next 12 matches.

[Beasties]

AWJ can count himself very lucky indeed that he wasn't the one dropped after the first test, if anything he was worse than Kruis. I'm a big admirer of Kruis, have been since he first surfaced at Sarries. He has the Sarries tight play etched into him, he's better at the tight stuff than Launch which is why he makes a good partner for Itoje, and prob why he consistently gets the nod over Launch by Eddie.

[Mellsblue]

Greenwood annoys me as much as a commentator as I admired him as player. Which is to say a lot.

[Mellsblue]

Bloody hell. That kit is horrific.