Team for Samoa?

[Banquo]

Don't really give a shit except that we drop Hughes. I've really tried to get on board with the big, showboating dickhead but I can't stand watching him waltz upright in to contact and lose the ball yet again. Doesn't even look like he gives a shit that 14 other players are busting their arses to get hold of the ball in the first place.

Mikey, how many times do you have to be told not to sit on the fence!

[Mikey Brown]

Was I being too diplomatic?

[Banquo]

Was I being too diplomatic?

yes, stop it

[Oakboy]

Forgetting what I'd do, I'd not be surprised if Eddie starts Care and Farrell at 9/10. I think he'll start Itoje and Marler. Solomona will probably get a run too. I think he'll just shuffle it.

[p/d]

I'd like to see a back row of 6. Underhill 7. Simmonds 8. Hughes if Underhill is fit. Think that could be pretty decent. Definitely want to see both Genge and Williams starting in the front row, I was annoyed that Genge dropped out for the Aus game, he is one of our very few truly destructive carriers

Underhill looks every bit a 6 so, if fit, start him there.

Genge needs to start alongside George & Williams.

Move Farrell to 10 and get Lozowski and Slade back in the mix.

[Rich]

Genge - Hartley - Williams

Itoje - Kruis

Simmons (7) - Hughes (8) - Robshaw (6)

Care - Farrell

Daly - Lozowski - JJ - Solamona

Watson

[Scrumhead]

Don't really give a shit except that we drop Hughes. I've really tried to get on board with the big, showboating dickhead but I can't stand watching him waltz upright in to contact and lose the ball yet again. Doesn't even look like he gives a shit that 14 other players are busting their arses to get hold of the ball in the first place.

Yes he can play much better than that. But the gulf between him and Vunipola is enormous. Were the 2 or 3 fanboys of his on here at all impressed yesterday?

Incidentally, Chisholm/Armand looking great today.

I too detest the one-handed carrying, but I thought Hughes was one of few players who showed up against Argentina.

I think he’s improved considerably, but as you say the gulf in class is obvious.

Chisholm is more of a 6 IMO, but great to see him back on the pitch and playing well.

[Adam_P]

That’s very inexperienced and with two players out of position. Hughes would be senior player when he really should just be concentrating on trying to hold on to the ball.

If we can't play inexperienced players against Samoa, then when can we? I also wouldn't consider Underhill and Simmonds particularly out of position - Underhill plays like he is an out and out 6 for me regardless of the number on his back, and while Simmonds generally plays 8 for Chiefs, I don't think his international future will be there due to his size.

[Puja]

Don't really give a shit except that we drop Hughes. I've really tried to get on board with the big, showboating dickhead but I can't stand watching him waltz upright in to contact and lose the ball yet again. Doesn't even look like he gives a shit that 14 other players are busting their arses to get hold of the ball in the first place.

Yes he can play much better than that. But the gulf between him and Vunipola is enormous. Were the 2 or 3 fanboys of his on here at all impressed yesterday?

Incidentally, Chisholm/Armand looking great today.

I too detest the one-handed carrying, but I thought Hughes was one of few players who showed up against Argentina.

Agreed, but players who can play well against a weakened Argentina who can only scrape past Italy are not necessarily where we should be setting our sights. This was the game to stand up and be counted in.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

I’d be all for playing Simmonds at 8, but if Underhill is out we have two likely options:

6. Robshaw 7. Simmonds 8. Hughes

Or:

6. Lawes 7. Robshaw 8. Simmonds

I prefer option 1.

[fivepointer]

Bring in B Curry (another try today) and/or Armand, the form back rower so far in the Prem.

[Puja]

Bring in B Curry (another try today) and/or Armand, the form back rower so far in the Prem.

The former would be my preferred - it's annoying that he wasn't called up when his brother was ruled out, especially since the only reason he wasn't in in the first place is because Eddie likes head-games. Armand's in great form, but we need a 7, not another 6.

Puja

[Banquo]

That’s very inexperienced and with two players out of position. Hughes would be senior player when he really should just be concentrating on trying to hold on to the ball.

If we can't play inexperienced players against Samoa, then when can we? I also wouldn't consider Underhill and Simmonds particularly out of position - Underhill plays like he is an out and out 6 for me regardless of the number on his back, and while Simmonds generally plays 8 for Chiefs, I don't think his international future will be there due to his size.

why do you say that about Underhill, out of interest?

[Mikey Brown]

He tackles a lot and makes less turnovers than ideal I guess? Though not sure how sticking him at 6 and a number 8 at 7 is supposed to change that.

[Mellsblue]

That’s very inexperienced and with two players out of position. Hughes would be senior player when he really should just be concentrating on trying to hold on to the ball.

If we can't play inexperienced players against Samoa, then when can we? I also wouldn't consider Underhill and Simmonds particularly out of position - Underhill plays like he is an out and out 6 for me regardless of the number on his back, and while Simmonds generally plays 8 for Chiefs, I don't think his international future will be there due to his size.

I’ve no issues with inexperienced players, but have experience to guide them and don’t play them out of position.

[Stom]

Don't really give a shit except that we drop Hughes. I've really tried to get on board with the big, showboating dickhead but I can't stand watching him waltz upright in to contact and lose the ball yet again. Doesn't even look like he gives a shit that 14 other players are busting their arses to get hold of the ball in the first place.

Yes he can play much better than that. But the gulf between him and Vunipola is enormous. Were the 2 or 3 fanboys of his on here at all impressed yesterday?

Incidentally, Chisholm/Armand looking great today.

You mean by having good body position into contact? Never.

BTW, I noticed what Exe do so well, at last. It's the bloody basics. Which is insane to be saying about pro rugby players. They clear out well. They support well. They time their runs well. They're just efficient. When they're not making stupid mistakes in the backs, that is.

[Banquo]

Don't really give a shit except that we drop Hughes. I've really tried to get on board with the big, showboating dickhead but I can't stand watching him waltz upright in to contact and lose the ball yet again. Doesn't even look like he gives a shit that 14 other players are busting their arses to get hold of the ball in the first place.

Yes he can play much better than that. But the gulf between him and Vunipola is enormous. Were the 2 or 3 fanboys of his on here at all impressed yesterday?

Incidentally, Chisholm/Armand looking great today.

You mean by having good body position into contact? Never.

BTW, I noticed what Exe do so well, at last. It's the bloody basics. Which is insane to be saying about pro rugby players. They clear out well. They support well. They time their runs well. They're just efficient. When they're not making stupid mistakes in the backs, that is.

They've been doing that for years, its their stock in trade, because they play ball in hand as much as possible.

[Stom]

Don't really give a shit except that we drop Hughes. I've really tried to get on board with the big, showboating dickhead but I can't stand watching him waltz upright in to contact and lose the ball yet again. Doesn't even look like he gives a shit that 14 other players are busting their arses to get hold of the ball in the first place.

Yes he can play much better than that. But the gulf between him and Vunipola is enormous. Were the 2 or 3 fanboys of his on here at all impressed yesterday?

Incidentally, Chisholm/Armand looking great today.

You mean by having good body position into contact? Never.

BTW, I noticed what Exe do so well, at last. It's the bloody basics. Which is insane to be saying about pro rugby players. They clear out well. They support well. They time their runs well. They're just efficient. When they're not making stupid mistakes in the backs, that is.

They've been doing that for years, its their stock in trade, because they play ball in hand as much as possible.

I know, I know. I've just not paid enough attention. I don't have lots of time to watch rugby usually, so I only really watch England and the occasional Quins game. So I haven't twigged, until now...

[Banquo]

You mean by having good body position into contact? Never.

BTW, I noticed what Exe do so well, at last. It's the bloody basics. Which is insane to be saying about pro rugby players. They clear out well. They support well. They time their runs well. They're just efficient. When they're not making stupid mistakes in the backs, that is.

They've been doing that for years, its their stock in trade, because they play ball in hand as much as possible.

I know, I know. I've just not paid enough attention. I don't have lots of time to watch rugby usually, so I only really watch England and the occasional Quins game. So I haven't twigged, until now...

I was so impressed with their coaching and attention to detail when they first appeared in the Prem; Baxter knows his stuff technically. I'd like to see what he'd do with England.

[Mellsblue]

They've been doing that for years, its their stock in trade, because they play ball in hand as much as possible.

I know, I know. I've just not paid enough attention. I don't have lots of time to watch rugby usually, so I only really watch England and the occasional Quins game. So I haven't twigged, until now...

I was so impressed with their coaching and attention to detail when they first appeared in the Prem; Baxter knows his stuff technically. I'd like to see what he'd do with England.

You'd assume he's the next domestic camp off the rank but I'd like to see him test himself somewhere else first. He knows nothing but Exeter.

[Banquo]

I know, I know. I've just not paid enough attention. I don't have lots of time to watch rugby usually, so I only really watch England and the occasional Quins game. So I haven't twigged, until now...

I was so impressed with their coaching and attention to detail when they first appeared in the Prem; Baxter knows his stuff technically. I'd like to see what he'd do with England.

You'd assume he's the next domestic camp off the rank but I'd like to see him test himself somewhere else first. He knows nothing but Exeter.

he'd need to leave Chiefs sharpish then....or maybe a saxons gig or three

[Scrumhead]

Bring in B Curry (another try today) and/or Armand, the form back rower so far in the Prem.

The former would be my preferred - it's annoying that he wasn't called up when his brother was ruled out, especially since the only reason he wasn't in in the first place is because Eddie likes head-games. Armand's in great form, but we need a 7, not another 6.

Puja

100% agree. I don’t see it happening though.

[fivepointer]

England head coach Eddie Jones has called up 35 players ahead of the final Test of the Old Mutual Wealth Series against Samoa on Saturday 25 November (KO 3pm live on Sky Sports).

The squad will convene at Pennyhill Park at midday on Monday.

It again includes Ben Te’o who will be in camp until Wednesday to continue his rehab on an ankle injury he picked up last month while on club duty.

Apprentice players Marcus Smith and Zach Mercer are also included.

Backs
Fullbacks
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Inside backs
Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Marcus Smith (Harlequins)*, Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)**, Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Forwards
Back five
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby)*, Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby).

Front row
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)

* Apprentice players

** Te’o will be in camp until Wednesday to continue his rehab on an ankle injury he picked up last month while on club duty

[Mikey Brown]

No real news there unless I've missed anything? Status of Brown/Teo/Underhill still unknown?

[Timbo]

I was so impressed with their coaching and attention to detail when they first appeared in the Prem; Baxter knows his stuff technically. I'd like to see what he'd do with England.

You'd assume he's the next domestic camp off the rank but I'd like to see him test himself somewhere else first. He knows nothing but Exeter.

he'd need to leave Chiefs sharpish then....or maybe a saxons gig or three

I wonder if the best thing for England might actually be for Baxter and McCall to stay at their respective clubs. They’ll continue to produce quality England players by the bucket load.