Team for Samoa?

[fivepointer]

So Brown will play FB, Slade will play 13. One of Loz and Francis will miss out altogether.

3 LH's so one will miss out on the 23.

Only 2 back row forwards. A lock will play 6 and another will be on the bench covering the back row. If anything happens to Robshaw or Simmonds, we will have 2 locks in the BR.

Forgive me but this is F*******G mad, as well as being completely unnecessary. There are perfectly able, in form BR forwards available to Eddie and yet he ignores them.

[TheNomad]

Well well. Disappointed Watson won’t get another crack at 15

Simmonds at 8? Surely he won’t go Lawes, Itoje, Robshaw?

[TheNomad]

So Brown will play FB, Slade will play 13. One of Loz and Francis will miss out altogether.

3 LH's so one will miss out on the 23.

Only 2 back row forwards. A lock will play 6 and another will be on the bench covering the back row. If anything happens to Robshaw or Simmonds, we will have 2 locks in the BR.

Forgive me but this is F*******G mad, as well as being completely unnecessary. There are perfectly able, in form BR forwards available to Eddie and yet he ignores them.

Totally agree. I understand he wants to stick to a core group of players but this is stupid

[Digby]

We are talking about playing a side who just lost to Romania, but it does seem a bit odd

[Mellsblue]

More looseheads than backrowers. I can’t be arsed to say any more.

[bitts]

Im assuming they expected one of Underhill or Hughes to be fit and I can understand not wanting to bring in a newbie with only a couple of days training before the match.

Still, it's a massive F U to those who've been in the squad previously. Wood, Harrison and Clifford may as well talk to their agent about France.

[Banquo]

Mells- I did just explode

FFS

[Raggs]

Even Haskell could have been an option to call up if we're considering Wood...

[Puja]

Eddie Jones has retained 25 players to prepare for England’s Old Mutual Wealth Series match against Samoa at Twickenham Stadium (Saturday, kick-off 3pm, Sky Sports).

Nathan Hughes (Wasps) has returned to his club for rehab on his right knee. The number 8 has bone bruising in his knee joint and will require treatment for the next three to four weeks.

Mike Brown (Harlequins), who missed out against Australia is included, while fellow backs Anthony Watson and Jonathan Joseph (both Bath Rugby) return to their clubs.

Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors) will remain in camp until Wednesday. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby) will continue to go through his graduated return to play protocols in camp.

Backs

Fullbacks: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby).

Inside backs: Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Forwards

Back five: Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs).

Front row: Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs).

Players released back to their clubs:

Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), George Kruis (Saracens), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).

Is it just me, or are there only two back rowers in that squad to fill four positions in the XXIII? So, we've got Robshaw/Itoje/Simmonds, with the fun prospect of Lawes/Itoje/Robshaw if Simmonds goes off injured. Not that I'm expecting a huge amount of trouble from a side that lost to Romania, but that's getting pretty close to the level of piss-taking that I accused Wales of last week.

I suspect the 25-man squad is partly for the same reason as the Argentina game - to rest Lions who look overplayed without having to release them back to their clubs to be further overplayed. Specifically, in this case, Mako. Not entirely sure what the plethora of inside centres is for unless Fazlet's getting another rest. If Ford's going to be dropped, I'd quite like him back at Leicester thanks, as he's not really been overplayed.

Puja

[Raggs]

I guess Daly may get lucky and get a bench spot for a rest.

[Puja]

Im assuming they expected one of Underhill or Hughes to be fit and I can understand not wanting to bring in a newbie with only a couple of days training before the match.

Still, it's a massive F U to those who've been in the squad previously. Wood, Harrison and Clifford may as well talk to their agent about France.

It's a shame they haven't had an apprentice training with the squad the last few weeks who's perfectly capable of covering the entire back row. I personally wouldn't pick Mercer yet, as I don't think he's ready, but a) he's unlikely to be scarred by benching against Samoa and b) he's actually a back row.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

The lack of cover at backrow is even......I still can’t be arsed.

[Spiffy]

This would have been a great game to give Marcus Smith a run, at least off the bench. Eddie Jones may regard him as an "apprentice" but he played with great maturity for Quins last weekend and was the outstanding back on show. He does everything well, reads the game beautifully and does not shirk the physical stuff. Probably the form 10 in the PL at present, including Ford and Farrell.

[Digby]

Im assuming they expected one of Underhill or Hughes to be fit and I can understand not wanting to bring in a newbie with only a couple of days training before the match.

Still, it's a massive F U to those who've been in the squad previously. Wood, Harrison and Clifford may as well talk to their agent about France.

It's a shame they haven't had an apprentice training with the squad the last few weeks who's perfectly capable of covering the entire back row. I personally wouldn't pick Mercer yet, as I don't think he's ready, but a) he's unlikely to be scarred by benching against Samoa and b) he's actually a back row.

Puja

I was chatting to someone at the Rom Vs Samoa game, and his take on the visiting Samoa side is that they were a big step up physically from Georgia who are normally their big game. Might not be that easy a game for Mercer given just how few top flight games he has, especially when junior rugby taught him he was dominant in contact

[Oakboy]

The future doesn't look too rosy for Kruis if he couldn't stay in this squad.

[Oakboy]

Im assuming they expected one of Underhill or Hughes to be fit and I can understand not wanting to bring in a newbie with only a couple of days training before the match.

Still, it's a massive F U to those who've been in the squad previously. Wood, Harrison and Clifford may as well talk to their agent about France.

It's a shame they haven't had an apprentice training with the squad the last few weeks who's perfectly capable of covering the entire back row. I personally wouldn't pick Mercer yet, as I don't think he's ready, but a) he's unlikely to be scarred by benching against Samoa and b) he's actually a back row.

Puja

The only thought I can come up with way down the avenue of devil's advocacy is that Eddie wants to simulate an injury crisis during the WC.

[Scrumhead]

Eddie Jones has retained 25 players to prepare for England’s Old Mutual Wealth Series match against Samoa at Twickenham Stadium (Saturday, kick-off 3pm, Sky Sports).

Nathan Hughes (Wasps) has returned to his club for rehab on his right knee. The number 8 has bone bruising in his knee joint and will require treatment for the next three to four weeks.

Mike Brown (Harlequins), who missed out against Australia is included, while fellow backs Anthony Watson and Jonathan Joseph (both Bath Rugby) return to their clubs.

Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors) will remain in camp until Wednesday. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby) will continue to go through his graduated return to play protocols in camp.

Backs

Fullbacks: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby).

Inside backs: Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Forwards

Back five: Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs).

Front row: Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs).

Players released back to their clubs:

Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), George Kruis (Saracens), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).

Is it just me, or are there only two back rowers in that squad to fill four positions in the XXIII? So, we've got Robshaw/Itoje/Simmonds, with the fun prospect of Lawes/Itoje/Robshaw if Simmonds goes off injured. Not that I'm expecting a huge amount of trouble from a side that lost to Romania, but that's getting pretty close to the level of piss-taking that I accused Wales of last week.

I suspect the 25-man squad is partly for the same reason as the Argentina game - to rest Lions who look overplayed without having to release them back to their clubs to be further overplayed. Specifically, in this case, Mako. Not entirely sure what the plethora of inside centres is for unless Fazlet's getting another rest. If Ford's going to be dropped, I'd quite like him back at Leicester thanks, as he's not really been overplayed.

Puja

I’m irritated by this too. Completely unnecessary and a slap in the face for players like Armand, Wilson and Ben Curry who all had a very good claim to be in the initial squad and an even better one to be in this final squad. So frustrating.

Unless we name Ewels at 8, I don’t think you can say it’s taking the piss though. We’re mainly complaining about Eddie making odd choices in the back row but the players we’re talking about (Robshaw, Itoje and Lawes) are hardly our equivalent to Sam Cross and Seb Davies.

[Raggs]

Im assuming they expected one of Underhill or Hughes to be fit and I can understand not wanting to bring in a newbie with only a couple of days training before the match.

Still, it's a massive F U to those who've been in the squad previously. Wood, Harrison and Clifford may as well talk to their agent about France.

It's a shame they haven't had an apprentice training with the squad the last few weeks who's perfectly capable of covering the entire back row. I personally wouldn't pick Mercer yet, as I don't think he's ready, but a) he's unlikely to be scarred by benching against Samoa and b) he's actually a back row.

Puja

The only thought I can come up with way down the avenue of devil's advocacy is that Eddie wants to simulate an injury crisis during the WC.

That was my thought exactly. Either simulating an injury crisis, or seeing just how much he can get away with against Samoa.

[Peat]

Im assuming they expected one of Underhill or Hughes to be fit and I can understand not wanting to bring in a newbie with only a couple of days training before the match.

Still, it's a massive F U to those who've been in the squad previously. Wood, Harrison and Clifford may as well talk to their agent about France.

It's a shame they haven't had an apprentice training with the squad the last few weeks who's perfectly capable of covering the entire back row. I personally wouldn't pick Mercer yet, as I don't think he's ready, but a) he's unlikely to be scarred by benching against Samoa and b) he's actually a back row.

Puja

The only thought I can come up with way down the avenue of devil's advocacy is that Eddie wants to simulate an injury crisis during the WC.

My guess is he simply doesn't rate the back rowers he left out as good enough so he'd rather give game time to people he thinks are good enough for international rugby. And that he'll say that if said back rowers are think its an F U or slap in the face, then they're quite right and they should go prove him wrong.

[twitchy]

Seems like a bit of a waste honestly.

[Mellsblue]

It's a shame they haven't had an apprentice training with the squad the last few weeks who's perfectly capable of covering the entire back row. I personally wouldn't pick Mercer yet, as I don't think he's ready, but a) he's unlikely to be scarred by benching against Samoa and b) he's actually a back row.

Puja

The only thought I can come up with way down the avenue of devil's advocacy is that Eddie wants to simulate an injury crisis during the WC.

My guess is he simply doesn't rate the back rowers he left out as good enough so he'd rather give game time to people he thinks are good enough for international rugby. And that he'll say that if said back rowers are think its an F U or slap in the face, then they're quite right and they should go prove him wrong.

This is my thoughts on it, too. Not that I agree with it. It’s the non-selection of a third scrumhalf all over again. I can’t believe we won’t have standby players in the vicinity to quickly solve an injury crisis.

[Oakboy]

The only thought I can come up with way down the avenue of devil's advocacy is that Eddie wants to simulate an injury crisis during the WC.

My guess is he simply doesn't rate the back rowers he left out as good enough so he'd rather give game time to people he thinks are good enough for international rugby. And that he'll say that if said back rowers are think its an F U or slap in the face, then they're quite right and they should go prove him wrong.

This is my thoughts on it, too. Not that I agree with it. It’s the non-selection of a third scrumhalf all over again. I can’t believe we won’t have standby players in the vicinity to quickly solve an injury crisis.

MB, do you think he will do any experimenting in the 6N? If not, it seems to me that Eddie is indicating that he is planning to not go beyond Billy, Hughes, Robshaw, Simmonds, Underhill and possibly Haskell for his backrow for the RWC, relying only on locks as further cover.

[Mellsblue]

My guess is he simply doesn't rate the back rowers he left out as good enough so he'd rather give game time to people he thinks are good enough for international rugby. And that he'll say that if said back rowers are think its an F U or slap in the face, then they're quite right and they should go prove him wrong.

This is my thoughts on it, too. Not that I agree with it. It’s the non-selection of a third scrumhalf all over again. I can’t believe we won’t have standby players in the vicinity to quickly solve an injury crisis.

MB, do you think he will do any experimenting in the 6N? If not, it seems to me that Eddie is indicating that he is planning to not go beyond Billy, Hughes, Robshaw, Simmonds, Underhill and possibly Haskell for his backrow for the RWC, relying only on locks as further cover.

He’s probably not going beyond that list, though you can add T Curry on to it and probably Clifford; but, I’d still argue that we’d be better served with an actual flanker or no8 for this match. It’s a great opportunity to get some experience into a player, don’t forget that Evans and B Curry have been rated highly enough to have been in previous squads, and that B Curry was ahead of T Curry at the end of last season. Why not put Mercer on the bench? He’s clearly seen as a future test player and has been training with the squad for the last four week. So why not get him some minutes at home against relatively weak opposition. It’s two years to the RWC he should be ready by then. If Simmonds or Robshaw are injured we are left with a lock playing at 7 or 8. If both are injured I assume we’ll have a back five of Ewels, Isiekwe, Launch, Lawes, Itoje. It’ll make a great quiz question in a few years but surely nobody could argue that’s better than picking Mercer/Wilson/B Curry.

[Stom]

This is my thoughts on it, too. Not that I agree with it. It’s the non-selection of a third scrumhalf all over again. I can’t believe we won’t have standby players in the vicinity to quickly solve an injury crisis.

MB, do you think he will do any experimenting in the 6N? If not, it seems to me that Eddie is indicating that he is planning to not go beyond Billy, Hughes, Robshaw, Simmonds, Underhill and possibly Haskell for his backrow for the RWC, relying only on locks as further cover.

He’s probably not going beyond that list, though you can add T Curry on to it; but, I’d still argue that we’d be better served with an actual flanker or no8 for this match. It’s a great opportunity to get some experience into a player, don’t forget that Evans and B Curry have been rated highly enough to have been in previous squads, and that B Curry was ahead of T Curry at the end of last season. Why not put Mercer on the bench? He’s clearly seen as a future test player and has been training with the squad for the last four week. So why not get him some minutes at home against relatively weak opposition. If Simmonds or Robshaw are injured we are left with a lock playing at 7 or 8. If both are injured I assume we’ll have a back five of Ewels, Isiekwe, Launch, Lawes, Itoje. It’ll make a great quiz question in a few years but surely nobody could argue that’s better than picking Mercer/Wilson/B Curry.

It just makes me think of Andy bloody Robinson...

[fivepointer]

I really feel for Mark Wilson. He proved conclusively in Argentina that he could take the step up to test rugby with a particularly impressive performance in the 1st test, but hes now been discarded. With our BR resources so obviously stretched why he, along with B Curry and Armand, havent been called upon is frankly bizarre.
It probably wont matter too much against Samoa, who we should beat with something to spare, but playing people out of position is usually not a great idea and seldom works as well as having a specialist in that slot. Playing a starter and likely sub out of position, even against modest opposition, strikes me as plain daft.