Statistic of the Day

[Lizard]

NZ’s longest winning streaks for every country against whom they have played:
Wales: 29* (1963- )
Argentina: 23*^ (1987- )
Ireland: 22 (1974-2013)
Scotland: 18*^ (1987- )
Italy: 13*^^ (1987- )
France: 11* (2009- )
Aust: 10 (2008-10)
England: 9 (2004-2010)
SA: 8 (2001-04)
Samoa: 7*^^ (1993- )
Lions: 7 (1977-1993)
Fiji: 5*^^ (1987- )
Canada: 5*^^ (1991- )
Tonga: 5*^^ (1999- )
USA: 3*^^ (1913- )
Japan: 3*^^ (1995- )
Romania: 2*^^ (1981- )
World XV: 2* (1992- )
Pacific Islanders: : 1*^^ (2004- )
Portugal: 1*^^ (2007- )
Georgia: 1*^^ (2015- )
Namibia: 1*^^ (2015- )

*Streak ongoing
^Undefeated but at least 1 draw
^^Undefeated, no draws

[Lizard]

All Blacks November tour miscellany

As I’ve previously noted, the current All Blacks November tour is a weird one.

• >First 3 test tour since 2004*
  >First time ever we’ve played the Barbarians first (usually last or near to it)
  >First tour with 2 non-test matches since 2001 (Ireland A and Scotland A)
  >First time since 2000-2001 we’ve avoided England two tours in a row**
  >Second time since 2000 that we have not played either the 6N champion or runner up (only previous time was 2016)

The modern NH tour really took shape in 2005. In the 10 tours from 2005, we have played:

England 8 times (1 loss)
Wales 8
Ireland 6* (1 loss*)
France 6
Scotland 6
Italy 3
USA 1
Japan 1


*Counting Ire in the USA, 2016 as a tour test
**The only other teams we have avoided twice or more in a row since 2004 are Italy 2004-08 (3 tours - no tour in ’07) and 2013-14 and France 2010-12 (2 tours – no tour in ’11). We played England every year from 2005 to 2014 inclusive.

[Puja]

Why do you say the modern NH tour only started in 2005? There were Autumn Internationals from 2000, weren't there?

Puja

[Lizard]

My view is that 2005 was when the modern pattern began – 4 tests against 4 different European sides (appreciating that in 2006 we played France twice and in 2016 Ireland twice)

I accept that you could argue that regular “Autumn International” tours began in 2000 with our 3-test tour to France (2 tests) and Italy but the pattern wasn’t set immediately.

1997: really the last of the “proper” tours – 4 tests and 5 mid-week games.
1998: no tour
1999: no tour
2000: Fra, Fra, Ita.
2001: a bit of hybrid – 1 tests each v Ireland and Scotland, with mid-weekers v their respective “A” sides, with a diversion on the way home to Buenos Aires for a one-off v Argentina.
2002: modern-style but only 3 tests (Eng, Fra, Wal)
2003: no tour
2004: modern-style but only 3 tests, plus Barbarians.

Australia is about the same:
1997: 5-match, 2-test tour of Argentina, followed by tests v Eng & Sco.
1998: A mind-week v France A then 2 tests (Fra, Eng)
1999: No tour
2000: Japan President’s XV in Tokyo, then modern-style Fra/Sco/Eng tour.
2001: More traditional 7-match tour with tests v Spain (!), Eng, Fra, Wales followed by Baabaas. (Surely the last time Oxford University was on the itinerary of Tier 1 touring side)
2002: Hybrid tour of Arg, ire, Eng & Italy. Tests only.
2003: No tour
2004: 5 match tour, including French Baabaas and tests v Sco x2, Fra, Eng
From 2005: generally 4 tests against 4 6N teams, plus Baabaas but more midweekers than NZ.

[rowan]

Back in the amateur days it was the Boks who would invariably win all their matches in Europe and the All Blacks who could be relied upon to drop one or two.

[Lizard]

Back in the amateur days it was the Boks who would invariably win all their matches in Europe and the All Blacks who could be relied upon to drop one or two.

That would be accurate if you replaced “Back in the amateur days” with “Up until about the 1960s”.

With 4 consecutive Grand Slam tours (1912/13, 1932/32, 1951/52 & 1960/61), SA boasted a success rate of 87% in the NH as of 1961 - 23 tests, 20 wins, 2 draws and just 1 loss, which came in their first NH tour match of all v Scotland in 1906. However, from the next tour it all went to shit for the rest of the amateur era: played 18, won 10, drew 2 and lost 6 (success rate of 56%).

[rowan]

True. Their 4th and final grandslam of the series was actually at the turn of the decade, and then they were rubbish on the next two tours - their last of the pre-World Cup era. They did squeeze in a few more tours right at the end of the amateur era, however - going unbeaten in their last two.

[rowan]

Difficult to say what happened to South Africa in the 1960s after that magnificent tour of Europe at the start of the decade and series win over NZ at home. They had been unbeaten in a series (home or away) throughout the entire first half of the 20th century, in fact, had a whitewash and away series win over the All Blacks to their credit, and had put together that remarkable grandslam of grandslam tours (4 tours, 16 tests). & they were back with a vengeance in the 70s and early 80s as arguably the dominant team in world rugby during most of that period as well. They had some truly great players in the 60s, such as Jan Ellis, Frik du Preez and John Gainsford, to name just a few. But this was also the first decade in which they had faced real anti-Apartheid hostility on tour, no doubt due to the Sharpesville Massacre of 1960, an inexcusable atrocity which made headlines all around the world. Interestingly, given today's mess, this was also a decade of unwelcome government interference in the game in South Africa, together with infighting among the rugby officials themselves, with Dr Danie Craven in the thick of it. Boks' selection began to resemble a turnstile, while a number of top players came to be regarded as 'prima donnas' - Gainsford among them, though he was widely regarded as the best South African center ever (before Danie Gerber came along). Chris Greyvenstein refers to the period 1961 to 1969 as the 'turbulent years' in his book (Springbok Saga). They did, nonetheless, win two series against the Lions, and also ended the decade with a 4-0 whitewash of the Wallabies (following which the ARU broke off ties with them until the post-Apartheid era).

[rowan]

Difficult to say what happened to South Africa in the 1960s after that magnificent tour of Europe at the start of the decade and series win over NZ at home. They had been unbeaten in a series (home or away) throughout the entire first half of the 20th century, in fact, had a whitewash and away series win over the All Blacks to their credit, and had put together that remarkable grandslam of grandslam tours (4 tours, 16 tests). & they were back with a vengeance in the 70s and early 80s as arguably the dominant team in world rugby during most of that period as well. They had some truly great players in the 60s, such as Jan Ellis, Frik du Preez and John Gainsford, to name just a few. But this was also the first decade in which they had faced real anti-Apartheid hostility on tour, no doubt due to the Sharpesville Massacre of 1960, an inexcusable atrocity which made headlines all around the world. Interestingly, given today's mess, this was also a decade of unwelcome government interference in the game in South Africa, together with infighting among the rugby officials themselves, with Dr Danie Craven in the thick of it. Boks' selection began to resemble a turnstile, while a number of top players came to be regarded as 'prima donnas' - Gainsford among them, though he was widely regarded as the best South African center ever (before Danie Gerber came along). Chris Greyvenstein refers to the period 1961 to 1969 as the 'turbulent years' in his book (Springbok Saga). They did, nonetheless, win two series against the Lions, and also ended the decade with a 4-0 whitewash of the Wallabies (following which the ARU broke off ties with them until the post-Apartheid era).

Meanwhile, precisely half a century ago the All Blacks were in the midst of one of their finest tours ever, going unbeaten in 17 games and winning all four of the test matches, but being denied a probable grandslam when the match with Ireland was canceled due to an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. The tour lasted just over two months, kicking off with two fixtures in Canada in October, and ending with an 11-6 win over the Baabaas at Twickers on Dec 16 (replacing the Irish test). Captain Brian Lochore led a truly legendary forward pack, which included such immortals as the Meads brothers, Kel Tremain, Waka Nathan, Ian Kirkpatrick & Ken Gray - most of whom would have walked into an all-time All Blacks XV of the pre-World Cup era, while only the 1924/25 'Invincibles' rivalled them as the greatest team to leave New Zealand's shores in that era. There was rarely any such thing as an 'easy' test in those days either, as incoming tours were the major focus for France & the Home Unions outside of the 5 Nations championship. 50 years ago this Saturday the All Blacks took on France in the third of their tests and prevailed 21-15.

[Lizard]

For the first time Sam Whitelock will play in a test with one of his brothers this weekend. Luke will start at 8, making them the 4th pair of brothers to play together in a test at lock/loose forward:

Zinzan & Robin Brooke: 39 tests together
Gary & Alan Whetton: 34
Stan & Colin Meads: 3*
Sam & Luke Whitelock: 0

Honourable mention:**
Maurice & Cyril Brownlie: 3
Charles & Edward Purdue: 1

*Both usually locks, Stan played 1 test each at 6 & 8 while Colin locked. Colin had 2 tests at 8 in one of which Stan locked.
**Played in the days of non-specialised forwards when NZ used a 2-3-2 scrum formation. You could argue they were locks/loosies at the same time.

[rowan]

Difficult to say what happened to South Africa in the 1960s after that magnificent tour of Europe at the start of the decade and series win over NZ at home. They had been unbeaten in a series (home or away) throughout the entire first half of the 20th century, in fact, had a whitewash and away series win over the All Blacks to their credit, and had put together that remarkable grandslam of grandslam tours (4 tours, 16 tests). & they were back with a vengeance in the 70s and early 80s as arguably the dominant team in world rugby during most of that period as well. They had some truly great players in the 60s, such as Jan Ellis, Frik du Preez and John Gainsford, to name just a few. But this was also the first decade in which they had faced real anti-Apartheid hostility on tour, no doubt due to the Sharpesville Massacre of 1960, an inexcusable atrocity which made headlines all around the world. Interestingly, given today's mess, this was also a decade of unwelcome government interference in the game in South Africa, together with infighting among the rugby officials themselves, with Dr Danie Craven in the thick of it. Boks' selection began to resemble a turnstile, while a number of top players came to be regarded as 'prima donnas' - Gainsford among them, though he was widely regarded as the best South African center ever (before Danie Gerber came along). Chris Greyvenstein refers to the period 1961 to 1969 as the 'turbulent years' in his book (Springbok Saga). They did, nonetheless, win two series against the Lions, and also ended the decade with a 4-0 whitewash of the Wallabies (following which the ARU broke off ties with them until the post-Apartheid era).

Meanwhile, precisely half a century ago the All Blacks were in the midst of one of their finest tours ever, going unbeaten in 17 games and winning all four of the test matches, but being denied a probable grandslam when the match with Ireland was canceled due to an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. The tour lasted just over two months, kicking off with two fixtures in Canada in October, and ending with an 11-6 win over the Baabaas at Twickers on Dec 16 (replacing the Irish test). Captain Brian Lochore led a truly legendary forward pack, which included such immortals as the Meads brothers, Kel Tremain, Waka Nathan, Ian Kirkpatrick & Ken Gray - most of whom would have walked into an all-time All Blacks XV of the pre-World Cup era, while only the 1924/25 'Invincibles' rivalled them as the greatest team to leave New Zealand's shores in that era. There was rarely any such thing as an 'easy' test in those days either, as incoming tours were the major focus for France & the Home Unions outside of the 5 Nations championship. 50 years ago this Saturday the All Blacks took on France in the third of their tests and prevailed 21-15.

There was, however, nothing particularly outstanding about Northern Hemisphere rugby in that decade to suggest the Boks should have performed so poorly in Europe. Both SA & NZ were untroubled in dispatching the Lions during this decade (the former in 2 series, as mentioned earlier), while the two teams which dominated the 5 Nations, Wales & France, suffered a similar fate on tours to the Southern Hemisphere, notwithstading a narrow one-off win for the latter at Springs in 64, which South Africa duly avenged with series victories at home in 67 and away in 68. The Boks also thumped the Welsh in a one-off test at Durban in 64. The All Blacks, meanwhile, whitewashed the French in two home series and comfortably beat the Welsh 2-0 at the end of the decade. So there was definitely something amiss on those South African tours to Europe in the 60s.

[scuzzaman]

Ian Kirkpatrick was one of the most imposing physical specimens I've personally met. He was hellaciously strong. I met him as a youngster because my father sold farm equipment and I traveled a lot with him during school holidays. So we built a couple of fences on his farm. I could wish to be that strong, even on a pound for pound basis.

[rowan]

My brother was a good friend of Simon Tremain, who was a promising youngster with the Wellington provincial team in the early 90s until his dad (All Blacks legend Kel Tremain) died suddenly at the age of 54. Simon just gave up rugby after that. He was still in his early 20s, as I recall, but said he just couldn't play without his dad there. Hard to believe that's already quarter of a century ago!

[rowan]

Ken Gray also died at 54. In fact, he and Kel Tremain were both born in 1938 and both died in 1992. He was a real hard man in the Kiwis front row back in the 60s and rated by many as the finest in his position in the pre-World Cup era. But he was also amazingly tall for a prop of that age, standing around 6'3, and had actually started out as a lock. Later in life he became mayor of Porirua (Wellington's state housing ghetto) and began to pop up on TV rugby shows with a dazzling new hairstyle and giant-sized ego - much to everyone's surprise.

[Lizard]

I believe I am related to Ken Gray somehow. The Braid family are also definitely distant cousins (Gary, father of Daniel & Luke, and I share a great great grandfather).

[rowan]

Congratulations! My most famous rugby relative was William Hardham, who won the VC in the Boer War, and who wasn't an All Black but probably only because they weren't a regular fixture back then. He was a prominent player for the Wellington province, and the city's second division club competition is named after him. I believe 2 of my nieces may also be distantly related to the Bachop & Mauger brothers too, albeit distantly. That's a big whanau!

[rowan]

New Zealand recorded their 31st victories over both Wales & Scotland in the AIs, thus extending their unbeaten streaks against them to 30 & 31 respectively, and their all-time records to 31-3 & 31-0 (2 draws). They also got their 45th win over France, extending their unbeaten run against them to a record 11 games, and their all-time record to 45-12 (1 draw).

[rowan]

Japan have played 15 tier 1 teams in the past 4 years, having only played 15 in the 13 years before that.

2013 - 2017
France: D 23-23
Australia: L 63-30
Ireland: L 35-13
Ireland: L 50-22
Wales: L 33-30
Argentina: L 54-20
Scotland: L 21-18
Scotland: L 26-13
South Africa: W 34-32
Scotland: L 45-10
Italy: W 26-23
Scotland: L 42-17
New Zealand: L 54-6
Wales: W 23-8
Wales: L 22-18

1999 - 2012
New Zealand: L 83-7
France: L 47-21
Italy: L 36-12
Australia: L 91-3
Wales: L 72-18
Italy: L 52-6
Ireland: L 47-18
Ireland: L 44-12
Wales: L 98-0
Scotland: L 100-8
France: L 51-29
Scotland: L 32-12
Wales: L 64-10
Wales: L 53-30
Argentina: L 33-12

[rowan]

So at a quick count, there appears to have been 288 official tests played this year, with just three to come now in the Maghreb Tri Nations kicking off this weekend.

138 were played in Europe, resulting in 90 wins for home teams and 45 wins for away teams. There were also two draws and one match played by neutral teams.

46 were played in Africa, resulting in 29 wins for home teams and 14 wins for away teams. There were also three draws.

33 were played in SAmerica, resulting in 22 wins for home teams and 10 wins for away teams. There was one draw.

31 were played in Asia, resulting in 15 wins for home teams and 11 wins for visiting teams, two draws and three matches played by neutral teams.

20 were played in Oceania, resulting in 15 wins for home teams and 4 wins for visiting teams. There was one draw.

20 were played in NAmerica, resulting in 10 wins for home teams and 10 wins for away teams.

Totals: 181 wins for home teams, 94 wins for away teams, nine draws, four games played on neutral grounds.

Fiji recorded the only wins by a tier 2 team against a tier 1 team, defeating both Scotland & Italy at home.

Brazil & Uruguay both had home wins over Canada, while Germany stunned Romania, also at home, to record wins for tier 3 teams over a tier 2 opponent.

[rowan]

Kind of suggests the serious re-building work occurs in the year directly after the World Cup, and a fair degree of experimentation occurs the following season. Obviously it would require a much broader analysis to back that up, but that's the impression I gain from those particular stats. Seems logical, while in the year dirctly before a World Cup you'd be looking for consistency and consolidation with probably few debutantes.

[Lizard]

I'm sure you have all been wondering, which team that has never played in a RWC has beaten the most teams that have played for the Webb Ellis Trophy?

The answer may surprise.

It's Morocco, with 29 victories over 9 different RWC nations.

Morocco has had the advantage of playing in European competitions initially (beating Spain, Portugal 5 times each, Romania and Russia once, and even Italy twice in the '70s) and then moving to the African structure (giving it 11 wins over the hapless Cote d'Ivoire,* 2 over Namibia and one over Zimbabwe. It has also beaten Uruguay once.

Second place is arguably the Soviet Union (27 wins) although its offspring Russia and Georgia have both qualified to the Big Dance.

Next on the list is Germany with 17 wins.


*who miraculously qualified in 1995, got smashed, had a bloke paralyzed, and have never been heard of since. Cote d'Ivoire has only 3 wins itself over fellow RWC nations (Namibia & Zim in 1994, and Zim again in 2005)

[rowan]

Nice one. I knew about Morocco's history but have never thought of it in that context. I've also been telling people to watch out for them now they've returned to division 1. They were banned some years ago (unclear why) and had to work their way back up from the bottom. So they're back in the top division just in time for a crack at World Cup qualifying. They have actually reached the repechage before, dipping out to Uruguay on aggregate. I don't think they'll make it this time either, though they could be an outside chance of playing in the repechage tournament. Incidentally, Ivory Coast are the team they beat to get back up, and it was a very tight game. I think the Ivory Coast team at the World Cup was mostly drawn from France beause the domestic scene is very small - and amateur. Nonetheless, there does appear to have been some improvement in recent years.

[rowan]

Tunisia must be 4th, I guess. By my count they are only 1 behind Germany with 16 wins over teams who have been to the World Cup; 6 over Portugal, 4 over the Ivory Coast (though Wiki only lists 2, so maybe that's wrong), 3 over Namibia, and one apiece over Zimbabwe, Romania and Spain. Like Morocco, they switched from European competition to Africa at the turn of the century. & also like Morocco, they have reached the World Cup qualifying repechages - in 2011 - only to get smashed by Romania.

[rowan]

Continuing along that theme Zambia (77) must be the lowest ranked team to have defeated a former World Cup competitor, downing Zimbabwe twice during the previous decade. Unranked Algeria did beat Ivory Coast in 2014, but I guess that won't go down as an official test in the World Rugby records. Probably the next lowest ranked team to beat a World Cup opponent would be the Cook Islands (55), who stunned Italy in 1980.

[rowan]

I suppose the 41 ranking places Italy has on the Cooks would also be the biggest advantage any side has over a team which has beaten it, unless we count Zimbabwe's win over the All Blacks in 1949 (as Rhodesia), with a 44 ranking place advantage to the latter.