Brexit delayed

[Digby]

London Welsh were better run than this government, though both had some plain daft assumptions

[cashead]

In addition to Davis being exposed as a liar today we have this from LK at the BBC - Hammond confirms publicly what everyone in SW1 knew privately - cabinet is still to have THE big discussion about the kind of Brexit they ultimately think we should have - DUP row has hugely ramped up the pressure for it to happen.

So, 18 months on from the referendum, the Govt have -
- Not agreed their policy on the final deal
- Not commissioned a single impact assessment on Brexit
- Not even discussed what they want out of it.

I think i may have said before that we are being led by charlatans, fools and liars.

I do genuinely fear for our democracy, as its in the hands of rank incompetents, lacking principle and honesty.

When was the departure from the EU meant to happen by again?

[Banquo]

In addition to Davis being exposed as a liar today we have this from LK at the BBC - Hammond confirms publicly what everyone in SW1 knew privately - cabinet is still to have THE big discussion about the kind of Brexit they ultimately think we should have - DUP row has hugely ramped up the pressure for it to happen.

So, 18 months on from the referendum, the Govt have -
- Not agreed their policy on the final deal
- Not commissioned a single impact assessment on Brexit
- Not even discussed what they want out of it.

I think i may have said before that we are being led by charlatans, fools and liars.

I do genuinely fear for our democracy, as its in the hands of rank incompetents, lacking principle and honesty.

When was the departure from the EU meant to happen by again?

15 months or so, but with a transition period

[Digby]

So we have agreement to move onto trade talks after all sides agreed to a vague statement which doesn't set out the practical positions for the border in Ireland, all quite unusual for politicians. Hurrah!

[fivepointer]

David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

[Which Tyler]

Norwegian Brexit was always the only option without ditching the Good Friday agreement and risking a restart to the Troubles.
For the first time (to me) it looks like "no deal" has been challenged for likelihood though.

[Digby]

It remains alarming that so many decisions on how things'll work in practice are being kicked down the line. They've waffled on again about providing certainty but in too many areas we just don't know what's happening, so are we out of the customs union and single market or not, are we out and pretending alignment is different to harmonisation, if we're out what happens when the EU amends their regulatory framework and we're still tied to them in some or all respects, and where we don't agree what's the avenue that'll be sought to resolve such disagreements.

[Mellsblue]

David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

What do you consider soft Brexit? I would consider Canada as hard Brexit. Norway/EFTA as soft Brexit.

[fivepointer]

David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

What do you consider soft Brexit? I would consider Canada as hard Brexit. Norway/EFTA as soft Brexit.

has to be the Norway model.

[Mellsblue]

David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

What do you consider soft Brexit? I would consider Canada as hard Brexit. Norway/EFTA as soft Brexit.

has to be the Norway model.

Agreed. What makes you think Norway is where we are heading?

[Sandydragon]

David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

That’s a distinct possibility. Provided that the mouth foaming eurosceptics don’t undermine May to the point where she has to do a u turn. I’m hoping that she has told to wind their necks in and support her or else usher in a Corbyn government. I doubt it though.

[Which Tyler]

So... We'll all be okay, just as long as May doesn't do a U-turn...
Erm...
I'm not feeling terribly confident here

[cashead]

So... We'll all be okay, just as long as May doesn't do a U-turn...
Erm...
I'm not feeling terribly confident here

She could always just do another snap election to strengthen her bargaining position.

[kk67]

Looks like a pretty nice deal between the EU and Japan. Presumably it will be a properly regulated free trade deal.
Twist the knife, why don't you.

[Which Tyler]

She could always just do another snap election to strengthen her bargaining position.

[Digby]

Not long to find out of MPs consider they have any backbone over the government's hopes to offer the house a largely meaningless meaningful vote on Brexit. I've two hopes here, first that the house does vote to ensure it has an actual vote, and then that the house doesn't play stupid games over such vote.

[Which Tyler]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42346192

The government has been narrowly defeated in a key vote on its Brexit bill after a rebellion by 12 Tory MPs.


In a blow to Prime Minister Theresa May, MPs voted to give Parliament a legal guarantee of a vote on the final Brexit deal struck with Brussels.


...

[Digby]

Got to wonder given the numbers why they didn't just do what was being asked of them, poor effort from the government supposing they appointed whips who can count

[Mellsblue]

Lost by 4 - they must’ve thought it worth the risk. I’m really looking forward to Farage’s reaction to this. I’m sure it’ll be measured.

[cashead]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42346192

The government has been narrowly defeated in a key vote on its Brexit bill after a rebellion by 12 Tory MPs.


In a blow to Prime Minister Theresa May, MPs voted to give Parliament a legal guarantee of a vote on the final Brexit deal struck with Brussels.


...

[Digby]

Lost by 4 - they must’ve thought it worth the risk. I’m really looking forward to Farage’s reaction to this. I’m sure it’ll be measured.

I'm still stuck feeling that on a near 50/50 vote one shouldn't expect to get everything one wants, and if we were voting to take back control that's what we should have, and that can't mean handing powers to an executive. Also had the whips turned a few votes I understand a few more would've rebelled whereas they didn't need to as it was so voted to keep the peace.

[Banquo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42346192

The government has been narrowly defeated in a key vote on its Brexit bill after a rebellion by 12 Tory MPs.


In a blow to Prime Minister Theresa May, MPs voted to give Parliament a legal guarantee of a vote on the final Brexit deal struck with Brussels.


...

not that funny, makes a no deal brexit a bit more likely. They'd have got the vote anyway, it was just some tories fannying about to piss off the likes of Bill Cash, a laudable aim in isolation, but not when we are already fcked in terms of negotiation.

[Banquo]

Lost by 4 - they must’ve thought it worth the risk. I’m really looking forward to Farage’s reaction to this. I’m sure it’ll be measured.

I'm still stuck feeling that on a near 50/50 vote one shouldn't expect to get everything one wants, and if we were voting to take back control that's what we should have, and that can't mean handing powers to an executive. Also had the whips turned a few votes I understand a few more would've rebelled whereas they didn't need to as it was so voted to keep the peace.

yep, some abstained. But its all a bit fckin inward looking rather than sorting out the real external mess; Field and Hoey opposed it from Labour, think Corbyn would have wanted to personally as well

[Digby]

Lost by 4 - they must’ve thought it worth the risk. I’m really looking forward to Farage’s reaction to this. I’m sure it’ll be measured.

I'm still stuck feeling that on a near 50/50 vote one shouldn't expect to get everything one wants, and if we were voting to take back control that's what we should have, and that can't mean handing powers to an executive. Also had the whips turned a few votes I understand a few more would've rebelled whereas they didn't need to as it was so voted to keep the peace.

yep, some abstained. But its all a bit fckin inward looking rather than sorting out the real external mess; Field and Hoey opposed it from Labour, think Corbyn would have wanted to personally as well

We've just had a very successful phase 1 where we and the EU agreed not to make any hasty decisions as Rome wasn't built in a day, and we've decided to make any actual decisions by some as yet ill defined point in our future. Sir Humphrey would consider such progress sound in the extreme

[Banquo]

I'm still stuck feeling that on a near 50/50 vote one shouldn't expect to get everything one wants, and if we were voting to take back control that's what we should have, and that can't mean handing powers to an executive. Also had the whips turned a few votes I understand a few more would've rebelled whereas they didn't need to as it was so voted to keep the peace.

yep, some abstained. But its all a bit fckin inward looking rather than sorting out the real external mess; Field and Hoey opposed it from Labour, think Corbyn would have wanted to personally as well

We've just had a very successful phase 1 where we and the EU agreed not to make any hasty decisions as Rome wasn't built in a day, and we've decided to make any actual decisions by some as yet ill defined point in our future. Sir Humphrey would consider such progress sound in the extreme

meanwhile Rome burns at the same time as not being built in a day