Players who need to move ...

[Scrumhead]

I was reading the comments re. Paul Hill on the Saints vs. Gloucester thread and I can think of a few players in similar situations, so I thought it was worth it's own thread.

The Premiership is more competitive than ever and under Eddie, players no-longer need to move to bigger clubs to get on the England radar, so I'd say any club where a player has a good chance of starting is a good destination, prestigious or otherwise.

Here's my list and my thoughts on where they could/should move to:

Paul Hill - Northampton Saints

It would be a criminal waste of potential if Hill stays put. As with a few other Saints forwards, he's regressed rather than progressed under West's tutelage and needs to move to get back on track.

Where to? As suggested, a spell as Cole's understudy at Tigers would be a very good shout but I also think he'd do well at Wasps. Marty Moore is leaving so they need another tighthead and I think he and Cooper-Woolley competing for the starting shirt could be good for both players.

Kieran Brookes - Northampton Saints

Brookes is in a similar scenario to Hill. However, I suspect his lack of progression may also be down to fitness related issues, so I think he needs a strong coach to get the best out of him.

Where to? A move back to Newcastle and some tough love from Dean Richards could work wonders, but I'd also be interested to see how he'd get on at Gloucester.

Nick Auterac - Bath

It wasn't too long ago that Auterac was seen as a potential England loosehead, but injury and the emergence of Obano have seen him drop down the pecking order at Bath.

Where to? He's apparently keen to come back to London and has been strongly linked with Quins (it could well be a done deal), but if not, I could see him going back to Sarries. He'd be an upgrade on Barrington IMO.

George McGuigan - Leicester Tigers

McGuigan was highly promising at Newcastle, had a decent first season at Tigers and made the Saxons tour to SA, but is now nowhere to be seen? He may be injured, but with Polota-Nau's signing, he's now third choice at best and probably needs to be pushing to start somewhere.

Where to? McGuigan is exactly the kind of solid all-round hooker we need at Quins, but with Elia's emergence, I don't see that happening. I think he'd be a great fit at Exeter as a long-term replacement for Yeandle/competition for LCD but with Hibbard leaving, Gloucester could be a good shout, as could Sale. That said, he'd probably be best going back to Newcastle IMO.

Dom Barrow - Leicester Tigers

In the not too distant past, Barrow looked like a prospect, but he seems to be out of favour at Leicester and would benefit from a move to a club where he's more likely to start.

Where to? If Saints get rid of West, I can see Barrow being an ideal replacement for Day and I think he'd complement Lawes very well. Quins desperately need a big and nasty lock, but I don't see us going in for him. Sale or Gloucester would also fit well, but like Brookes and McGuigan, he'd possibly be best moving back to Falcons.

Lewis Ludlam - Northampton Saints

Another unfortunate example of (as yet) untapped potential. Obviously Ludlam has had injury and illness related issues, but he has been criminally underused by Saints. At 22, he's been totally eclipsed by younger players like the Currys and Underhill and from looking like our most exciting prospect at 7, he's no longer in the conversation.

Where to? I'd love to see Ludlam at Quins. Wallace is our only out-and-out 7 and with Robshaw not getting any younger, we need to be putting long term plans in place. If not, Worcester could be a good option. Sam Lewis is nailed on as a starter there, but Ludlam would have a far better chance of game time. Bristol might also be worth considering.

Will Evans - Leicester Tigers

Like Ludlam, Evans progress has been delayed by injury and while he does get the occasional game with Tigers, he doesn't seem to be able to get a run together despite often looking good when he plays.

Where to? See Ludlam really ... wherever he's going to get games.

Jack Maunder - Exeter Chiefs

Why leave the champions? Chiefs simply have too many 9s. Will Chudley is rumoured to be heading to Bath, but even if he leaves, Maunder is still competing with White and Townsend who currently seem to be preferred.

I have faith that Chiefs will bring Maunder through eventually, but right now he needs games and dual-registering with a Championship side probably isn't the answer. Perhaps Chiefs could loan him to another AP club?

Where to? Working in tandem with Care at Quins or Hougaard at Worcester would be good for Maunder's development IMO.

Theo Brophy-Clews - London Irish

I'm probably being unfair to Irish here, but given how commendably TBC performed in their last AP campaign, I find it strange that he doesn't seem to be full trusted this time round. Marcus Smith is the obvious comparison and TBC is lagging well behind at the moment.

A full season in the Championship wouldn't do him any harm, but I also feel that he may be better served working with a more experienced, top-quality 10 at a bigger club.

Where to? With Cipriani looking increasingly likely to head to France, Wasps could be a good option IMO. TBC could learn from Gopperth with the aim of succeeding him for the 19/20 season. That said, I suspect Wasps will want to go for a bigger name if Cipriani goes. Exeter could be another good option for similar reasons. Steenson is having a great season but isn't getting any younger and while Joe Simmonds looks as though he has potential, I'd argue TBC is the better of the two. Failing that, he'd have a good chance of starting at Worcester. Lance is unlikely to come back, Olver isn't good enough and Shillcock looks better at 15 IMO.


It's a long list, but let me know your thoughts. I was tempted to include a few others too, but I focused on the players I feel have the highest potential.

Also - as a quick disclaimer, I'm not specifically picking on Saints or Tigers ... they just seem to have a few who would benefit most from a move.

[Tom Moore]

I think you may have just built most of the budget top 6 pack.

[fivepointer]

Really good idea for a thread SH. I've often thought wouldnt it be great if we could identify obviously talented players who arent getting the game time they need and move them to where they could have a real chance of development. If only we had a governing body, who could organise and manage such things to the maximum advantage of the national side.......

Looking at the players you've highlighted.

Hill has stalled badly so a move would seem to be a sound notion. Tigers would be a good fit.
Brookes can stay at Saints, but he needs to work much harder on his game.
Auterac is moving, I think. Sarries would be a good option or possibly Sale.
McGuigan is getting frozen out at Tigers. Exeter or Glaws might be a good fit.
Barrow hasnt played due to injury, i think. I'd leave him at Tigers, where he will get plenty of game time.
Ludlam might get a look in under new management. He's also had fitness issues so i'd be inclined to leave him at Saints.
Evans doesnt appear to be in MOC's plans at all so should leave. Quins seems a very good option.
Maunder is still just 20 and has a bit of time on his side. He's not been consistently fit which has affected his appearances. I'm happy to leave him at Exeter.
Brophy-Clews can feel really hard done by. He should be starting and is being wasted by Irish who persist with a mediocre import. Wasps or Worcester would suit but Sale might be his best bet.

I'd also throw in Ben Spencer, who has been far too loyal to Saracens, and really should be a regular starter. Harry Thacker, who is moving i believe. Sam Harrison is another who deserves to be a starter. If, as seems likely, Irish go down, Johnny Williams must move as should Cockanasingha.

[Banquo]

If only we had a governing body, who could organise and manage such things to the maximum advantage of the national side.......

hmm, hardly fair on the RFU, who cannot do this. I guess you could say they cocked up right at the start of professionalism, but now all they can do is bribe PRL clubs to at least have some EQPs.

[Tigersman]

Mcguigan to Bristol was a rumour.
Barrow has been injured for a while when fully fit he has started.

Evans and Ludlam should look elsewhere although Evans could do with putting on a stone or two, not sure where though a lot of clubs are doing well for 7’s.

[Oakboy]

Spencer. Really disappointed to see Wigglesworth back in.

[Scrumhead]

True - not sure how/why I forgot Spencer

[Digby]

Marco Mama
Harry Thacker
Tom Stephenson
Greg Holmes
Michele Campagnaro
Mark Atkinson
Cameron Neild
Tom Collins
Paolo Odogwu
Perry Humphreys
Alex Lozowski

[Adam_P]

Tom Collins has played pretty much every game he has been fit for this season. He's been out with a foot injury for a while. Similarly Stephenson has largely been at least in the 23 once he is match fit.

[Banquo]

Tom Collins has played pretty much every game he has been fit for this season. He's been out with a foot injury for a while. Similarly Stephenson has largely been at least in the 23 once he is match fit.

I thought that. But it might be a reflection that they just need to get away from Saints

[Digby]

Tom Collins has played pretty much every game he has been fit for this season. He's been out with a foot injury for a while. Similarly Stephenson has largely been at least in the 23 once he is match fit.

I thought that. But it might be a reflection that they just need to get away from Saints

Both also have a lot of games they've not played in over the last few seasons.

[Banquo]

Tom Collins has played pretty much every game he has been fit for this season. He's been out with a foot injury for a while. Similarly Stephenson has largely been at least in the 23 once he is match fit.

I thought that. But it might be a reflection that they just need to get away from Saints

Both also have a lot of games they've not played in over the last few seasons.

Stephenson has been injured a lot.

[Digby]

I thought that. But it might be a reflection that they just need to get away from Saints

Both also have a lot of games they've not played in over the last few seasons.

Stephenson has been injured a lot.

So has North, one of them always came back into the side a little quicker. There are of course reasons for that, but Stephenson might well do better for a move away

[switchskier]

How about Rory Hutchinson for one that needs to move on from Saints? There was some chatter that he might get a chance this year but doesn't look like it'll happen now.

I'd also say Wilson at Newcastle. If he moves to a bigger side and still starts every game I think that it becomes much harder for
England not to pick him.

[Banquo]

Both also have a lot of games they've not played in over the last few seasons.

Stephenson has been injured a lot.

So has North, one of them always came back into the side a little quicker. There are of course reasons for that, but Stephenson might well do better for a move away

odd comparison, being as Stephenson is a centre. I wouldn't blame Saints for Stephenson's stalling.

[Digby]

Stephenson has been injured a lot.

So has North, one of them always came back into the side a little quicker. There are of course reasons for that, but Stephenson might well do better for a move away

odd comparison, being as Stephenson is a centre. I wouldn't blame Saints for Stephenson's stalling.

centre, winger, it's all the same

[Mellsblue]

So has North, one of them always came back into the side a little quicker. There are of course reasons for that, but Stephenson might well do better for a move away

odd comparison, being as Stephenson is a centre. I wouldn't blame Saints for Stephenson's stalling.

centre, winger, it's all the same

Not in defence where it’s much harder to be a winger.

[Puja]

Marco Mama
Harry Thacker
Tom Stephenson
Greg Holmes
Michele Campagnaro
Mark Atkinson
Cameron Neild
Tom Collins
Paolo Odogwu
Perry Humphreys
Alex Lozowski

I get the impression with Odogwu that the problem lies with him, rather than any of his clubs. And Mama's been injured most of the season, so I think that's a bit unfair to Wuss.

Puja

[Tigersman]

WEll Barrow won’t be a Tiger next season....

[Puja]

Thinking of problem Sale players, anyone know what's happened to Yarde? He was noted in the papers as having been "snubbed" for the England training camp despite being fit, but he's not been in the Sale XXIII the past few weeks.

Puja

[Puja]

WEll Barrow won’t be a Tiger next season....

Really? Crap - of course that's the second row that we're getting rid of, not one of the undynamic duo.

Puja

[Tigersman]

WEll Barrow won’t be a Tiger next season....

Really? Crap - of course that's the second row that we're getting rid of, not one of the undynamic duo.

Puja

Let’s just say its complicated ATM.

[Scrumhead]

Cryptic ...

[Adam_P]

I read that there have been 'squad disagreements' that are making Barrow want out of Tigers

[Scrumhead]

Well if I’d been left out in favour of players that have been underperforming like Fitzgerald and Kitchener, I’d be pi$$ed off too