Scrumhead wrote:
I don’t see it as an either/or situation. I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do, but I think there’s a high chance Eddie will pick both.
Agreed. If fit I half expect Shields to be picked for the Saffa tour tbh. And Rhodes is a very good player who seems right up Eddie’s street.
.....and why do we think Shields is making himself available? Rhodes is very physical and effective, but has no inclination to use his peripheral vision. But you are right, they are both the sort of wholehearted, physical triers that Eddie seems to be settling for at flank.
Not sure what you mean re Shields being ‘available’?
Personally think you’re underselling Rhodes a touch. He’s a good, destructive and athletic specialist 6. And he does have some footballing ability imo. He’s kind of like the player Lawes and Itoje have been trying to be this last year. I detect from the slant of your post you disapprove of Rhodes/Eddies backrow vision?
Timbo wrote:
Agreed. If fit I half expect Shields to be picked for the Saffa tour tbh. And Rhodes is a very good player who seems right up Eddie’s street.
.....and why do we think Shields is making himself available? Rhodes is very physical and effective, but has no inclination to use his peripheral vision. But you are right, they are both the sort of wholehearted, physical triers that Eddie seems to be settling for at flank.
Not sure what you mean re Shields being ‘available’?
Personally think you’re underselling Rhodes a touch. He’s a good, destructive and athletic specialist 6. And he does have some footballing ability imo. He’s kind of like the player Lawes and Itoje have been trying to be this last year. I detect from the slant of your post you disapprove of Rhodes/Eddies backrow vision?
I'm assuming he doesn't think he will be an All Black......which itself reflects on our backrow standards imo.
I don't think I'm underselling Rhodes- every time I see him he looks destructive, handy in the lineout, but he very often dies with the ball. I don't disapprove of Rhodes, neither do I bundle him up with an 'Eddie vision. IMO Eddie thinks we don't breed especially good footballers in the the backrow, or hasn't seen anything he fancies yet, so has settled for simpler options; see scrum half. I think if he saw a whole bunch of great all round players in English rugby, especially up front, we'd play differently. (it says quite a lot that Lawes and Itoje have been at 6, too)
Without meaning any disrespect to the guy, at 6 or 7, Robshaw is Eddie/England's benchmark. He is what he is and would get into few, if any, of the other top six or so international back rows. He is a genuine, wholehearted 80-minute trier and won't let anyone down. All the other candidates - Armand, Lawes, Itoje, Underhill, Simmonds, Rhodes, Curry(s), Kvesic etc. - need to show they are better all-round players than him to get a regular shirt. So far, none have.
Oakboy wrote:Without meaning any disrespect to the guy, at 6 or 7, Robshaw is Eddie/England's benchmark. He is what he is and would get into few, if any, of the other top six or so international back rows. He is a genuine, wholehearted 80-minute trier and won't let anyone down. All the other candidates - Armand, Lawes, Itoje, Underhill, Simmonds, Rhodes, Curry(s), Kvesic etc. - need to show they are better all-round players than him to get a regular shirt. So far, none have.
Lawes and Itoje shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath/as international flankers. There is a chicken and egg with some of the other names though if you mean at international level, and Rhodes isn't eligible yet. I like the look of Simmonds, Underhill, both Currys, and even Kvesic.....but they need an opportunity to show their wares.
Oakboy wrote:Without meaning any disrespect to the guy, at 6 or 7, Robshaw is Eddie/England's benchmark. He is what he is and would get into few, if any, of the other top six or so international back rows. He is a genuine, wholehearted 80-minute trier and won't let anyone down. All the other candidates - Armand, Lawes, Itoje, Underhill, Simmonds, Rhodes, Curry(s), Kvesic etc. - need to show they are better all-round players than him to get a regular shirt. So far, none have.
Lawes and Itoje shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath/as international flankers. There is a chicken and egg with some of the other names though if you mean at international level, and Rhodes isn't eligible yet. I like the look of Simmonds, Underhill, both Currys, and even Kvesic.....but they need an opportunity to show their wares.
I was stating my interpretation of what appears to be the case with Eddie. I'd guess he looked at the ones you mention and decided to give Underhill a run as his favourite choice. He got injured and the next cab off the rank might be Simmonds who Eddie has specifically mentioned as 3rd choice 8.
I don't think any of them demand a shirt in Eddie's eyes or why would he have called Haskell back into the training squad?
Oakboy wrote:Without meaning any disrespect to the guy, at 6 or 7, Robshaw is Eddie/England's benchmark. He is what he is and would get into few, if any, of the other top six or so international back rows. He is a genuine, wholehearted 80-minute trier and won't let anyone down. All the other candidates - Armand, Lawes, Itoje, Underhill, Simmonds, Rhodes, Curry(s), Kvesic etc. - need to show they are better all-round players than him to get a regular shirt. So far, none have.
Lawes and Itoje shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath/as international flankers. There is a chicken and egg with some of the other names though if you mean at international level, and Rhodes isn't eligible yet. I like the look of Simmonds, Underhill, both Currys, and even Kvesic.....but they need an opportunity to show their wares.
I was stating my interpretation of what appears to be the case with Eddie. I'd guess he looked at the ones you mention and decided to give Underhill a run as his favourite choice. He got injured and the next cab off the rank might be Simmonds who Eddie has specifically mentioned as 3rd choice 8.
I don't think any of them demand a shirt in Eddie's eyes or why would he have called Haskell back into the training squad?
a very good question, and one to which there isn't a sensible answer
Banquo wrote:
Lawes and Itoje shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath/as international flankers. There is a chicken and egg with some of the other names though if you mean at international level, and Rhodes isn't eligible yet. I like the look of Simmonds, Underhill, both Currys, and even Kvesic.....but they need an opportunity to show their wares.
I was stating my interpretation of what appears to be the case with Eddie. I'd guess he looked at the ones you mention and decided to give Underhill a run as his favourite choice. He got injured and the next cab off the rank might be Simmonds who Eddie has specifically mentioned as 3rd choice 8.
I don't think any of them demand a shirt in Eddie's eyes or why would he have called Haskell back into the training squad?
a very good question, and one to which there isn't a sensible answer
I would have no problem with Haskell being in the squad with a view to him being used as a back row bench option in the 6 Nations, where his experience and competitiveness might well make an impact . However, I would be far less pleased if Eddie has plans to revert to using him as the starting openside. For that berth we really need somebody complimentary to the tight style of Robshaw and Billy, somebody able to keep up with the backs in the wider channels - I would love to see Simmonds given a chance in the 7 berth to fulfil this role, or failing that Armand (who would provide a lineout option too).
Last edited by jngf on Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
Is Armand the option to keep up with play in the wider channels? He's not slow as such, but still looks someone more comfortable grafting in tighter areas.
Digby wrote:Is Armand the option to keep up with play in the wider channels? He's not slow as such, but still looks someone more comfortable grafting in tighter areas.
My thinking on this would be that he would play in a style similar to Croft or Wood (when at his best) as a tall lineout player with a bit of pace - though admittedly he wouldn’t have the gas of a Simmonds or a Curry twin.
