England Squad - 6 Nations

[TheDasher]

Where do we think Eddie sees Mallinder playing? 15 or wing? I don't know.

What I do know is that I am immediately sad not seeing Daly on an England team-sheet. I love having that bit of classy footballing ability out wide. What a player he has become.

[ilovelamp]

More relating to the scrum-halfs, taken from Gloucestershire Live:

"Eddie Jones, England head coach, said: “There are three back-up half-backs, there’s [Dan] Robson, [Richard] Wigglesworth or [Ben] Vellacott, who has really impressed me of late.

“So, we’ve been in conversation with those three guys and if the situation is that we need another half we can call one of those depending on the sort of half-back that we want.”

England have only selected two scrum-halves in their current training camp but Jones indicated that Vellacott could join a training camp in the near future.

Jones added: “It is difficult having more than two half-backs in a camp because then you limit their training time and training time is so important for us.

“That is one of the reasons [we only have two] but when we have an extended training period I’ll bring more half-backs in.”

[Banquo]

More relating to the scrum-halfs, taken from Gloucestershire Live:

"Eddie Jones, England head coach, said: “There are three back-up half-backs, there’s [Dan] Robson, [Richard] Wigglesworth or [Ben] Vellacott, who has really impressed me of late.

“So, we’ve been in conversation with those three guys and if the situation is that we need another half we can call one of those depending on the sort of half-back that we want.”

England have only selected two scrum-halves in their current training camp but Jones indicated that Vellacott could join a training camp in the near future.

Jones added: “It is difficult having more than two half-backs in a camp because then you limit their training time and training time is so important for us.

“That is one of the reasons [we only have two] but when we have an extended training period I’ll bring more half-backs in.”

well at least he's given his rationale, agree with it or otherwise.

[Digby]

He must really not like how he sees the England players make a tactical approach to the game, which isn't entirely unfair.

And I'd guess he sees Mallinder as a wing option, and who wouldn't want a slow off the mark winger with the footwork of a drunken giraffe?

[Mellsblue]

More relating to the scrum-halfs, taken from Gloucestershire Live:

"Eddie Jones, England head coach, said: “There are three back-up half-backs, there’s [Dan] Robson, [Richard] Wigglesworth or [Ben] Vellacott, who has really impressed me of late.

“So, we’ve been in conversation with those three guys and if the situation is that we need another half we can call one of those depending on the sort of half-back that we want.”

England have only selected two scrum-halves in their current training camp but Jones indicated that Vellacott could join a training camp in the near future.

Jones added: “It is difficult having more than two half-backs in a camp because then you limit their training time and training time is so important for us.

“That is one of the reasons [we only have two] but when we have an extended training period I’ll bring more half-backs in.”

well at least he's given his rationale, agree with it or otherwise.

Going by this and previous squads, he clearly doesn’t think FH’s and IC’s need much training time in camp.

[Banquo]

More relating to the scrum-halfs, taken from Gloucestershire Live:

"Eddie Jones, England head coach, said: “There are three back-up half-backs, there’s [Dan] Robson, [Richard] Wigglesworth or [Ben] Vellacott, who has really impressed me of late.

“So, we’ve been in conversation with those three guys and if the situation is that we need another half we can call one of those depending on the sort of half-back that we want.”

England have only selected two scrum-halves in their current training camp but Jones indicated that Vellacott could join a training camp in the near future.

Jones added: “It is difficult having more than two half-backs in a camp because then you limit their training time and training time is so important for us.

“That is one of the reasons [we only have two] but when we have an extended training period I’ll bring more half-backs in.”

well at least he's given his rationale, agree with it or otherwise.

Going by this and previous squads, he clearly doesn’t think FH’s and IC’s need much training time in camp.

well we know most backs are interchangeable anyway, so no stress here

[Puja]

He must really not like how he sees the England players make a tactical approach to the game, which isn't entirely unfair.

And I'd guess he sees Mallinder as a wing option, and who wouldn't want a slow off the mark winger with the footwork of a drunken giraffe?

Mallinder has many flaws; I'm really not sure "slow off the mark" is one of them.

Puja

[Banquo]

He must really not like how he sees the England players make a tactical approach to the game, which isn't entirely unfair.

And I'd guess he sees Mallinder as a wing option, and who wouldn't want a slow off the mark winger with the footwork of a drunken giraffe?

Mallinder has many flaws; I'm really not sure "slow off the mark" is one of them.

Puja

well quick off the mark isnt true either in the context of being a wing. He's right about the footwork, that's why Ward made him look a dick.

[Puja]

He must really not like how he sees the England players make a tactical approach to the game, which isn't entirely unfair.

And I'd guess he sees Mallinder as a wing option, and who wouldn't want a slow off the mark winger with the footwork of a drunken giraffe?

Mallinder has many flaws; I'm really not sure "slow off the mark" is one of them.

Puja

well quick off the mark isnt true either in the context of being a wing. He's right about the footwork, that's why Ward made him look a dick.

I thought we were agreed that it was lack of testicular fortitude that was why he got nowhere near Ward?

Whenever I've seen him, he's looked fast, nimble, clever, but utterly gutless. I don't get the criticism that he's getting when his main issue seems quite clear and obvious and pretty much everything else looks good.

He had a shocker against Quins shortly after Dad got fired - is that one game what people are basing their opinions on?

Puja

[Banquo]

Mallinder has many flaws; I'm really not sure "slow off the mark" is one of them.

Puja

well quick off the mark isnt true either in the context of being a wing. He's right about the footwork, that's why Ward made him look a dick.

I thought we were agreed that it was lack of testicular fortitude that was why he got nowhere near Ward?

Whenever I've seen him, he's looked fast, nimble, clever, but utterly gutless. I don't get the criticism that he's getting when his main issue seems quite clear and obvious and pretty much everything else looks good.

He had a shocker against Quins shortly after Dad got fired - is that one game what people are basing their opinions on?

Puja

No, he was getting a whole load of stick earlier in the season for missing a shit ton of tackles when playing 10 and 12; the Ward incident wasn't gutlessness per se, just dreadful defending.

He's a got a touch of the Twelvetrees without the physicality for me (ie a good basic skill set with the ball, but....); he may be quick when up to speed, but acceleration and footwork from scratch wouldn't be a strength, unsurprisingly given his luxury giraffe frame. You keep saying everything else looks good, but I'm not so sold on his decision making either, as before.

He's a young lad who looks over promoted to me. Reminds me of someone else, so I'd hope he can develop to be a good senior player, but if courage is the issue, then that's hard to crack.

[fivepointer]

Harry is a talent. He does have qualities that do catch the eye. He's been moved around at Saints and must be in an odd position with his dad going. I feel some sympathy for the lad who is still very young, trying his best in a misfiring side where far more experienced players arent producing.
I wouldnt write him off completely - nor would Eddie or his coaches at Saints it seems - but would like to see some proper commitment to the physical aspect of the game sooner rather than later.

[Banquo]

Harry is a talent. He does have qualities that do catch the eye. He's been moved around at Saints and must be in an odd position with his dad going. I feel some sympathy for the lad who is still very young, trying his best in a misfiring side where far more experienced players arent producing.
I wouldnt write him off completely - nor would Eddie or his coaches at Saints it seems - but would like to see some proper commitment to the physical aspect of the game sooner rather than later.

very true, they obviously see the talent and are willing to persevere, which is good. To me, 12 looks the best place for him, but you cannot play there without top defence.

[Mellsblue]

He's a young lad who looks over promoted to me. Reminds me of someone else, so I'd hope he can develop to be a good senior player, but if courage is the issue, then that's hard to crack.

This nails it for me. I think the fact he’s big and can boot it a mile are clouding the fact that he’s still very raw. He’s also a bit of a pansy which is a huge worry at any level and even more so at test level. He could be a great player but, for me, is a big lad with a big boot with all the basics to be a very good player but he’s not there yet.

As for pace. He may look quick enough at 10/12 and even 15 but, as Nowell will tell you, you will be exposed in the wide channels if you’re not winger fast. Which he isn’t. I doubt he’s even Nowell fast(ish).

[Puja]

well quick off the mark isnt true either in the context of being a wing. He's right about the footwork, that's why Ward made him look a dick.

I thought we were agreed that it was lack of testicular fortitude that was why he got nowhere near Ward?

Whenever I've seen him, he's looked fast, nimble, clever, but utterly gutless. I don't get the criticism that he's getting when his main issue seems quite clear and obvious and pretty much everything else looks good.

He had a shocker against Quins shortly after Dad got fired - is that one game what people are basing their opinions on?

Puja

No, he was getting a whole load of stick earlier in the season for missing a shit ton of tackles when playing 10 and 12; the Ward incident wasn't gutlessness per se, just dreadful defending.

But people weren't previously giving him flack for his footwork, acceleration, decision-making, dress-sense, etc.

Puja

[Dasheragain]

But where does Eddie want to play big Harry? Do we think he sees him as utility option? He may like Daly because he's a world-class winger but also be happy knowing he can cover 15, 13, 11, 14. Does he like Harry because he can play across the backline?

It may be that because as we know, there are better 10's, better centres and better wingers at this moment than Harry Mallinder.

[Digby]

But people weren't previously giving him flack for his footwork, acceleration, decision-making, dress-sense, etc.

Puja

When he was playing 10/12 the footwork and acceleration weren't such an issue. And he gets some leeway on the decision making being so young, as does Marcus Smith

[Dasheragain]

How far away from fitness is Teo? I say this as I've seen Manu is playing Racing this weekend. Manu has played what, five games now, and is playing against a top European side this week with Cardiff Blues next week. With still quite some time before the 6ns start, is Manu not arguably going to be fitter than Teo by the Italy game, and with all due respect, it's Italy, which is an ideal first run out. I'm almost surprised he's not in the squad tbh.

[twitchy]

Manu may be "fit" in theory but he is no where near his best and hasn't had a run of games for years. He is incredibly rusty. Best leave him at tigers this season and build him back up for england next season.

[Dasheragain]

Manu may be "fit" in theory but he is no where near his best and hasn't had a run of games for years. He is incredibly rusty. Best leave him at tigers this season and build him back up for england next season.

I know that's everyone's line at the moment and of course I get it, just playing devil's advocate really. Another top-level game this week (Racing), Cardiff Blue next weekend and then Italy (arguably similar standard) and then we're in mid-Feb, by which point, that's another three games, another three and a bit weeks... He'll be a lot fitter by then...

[fivepointer]

Eddie has very sensibly told Manu to forget about the 6N's and focus on gaining form and fitness with Tigers. I'd be very surprised if he can improve enough to be considered. He's looked very rusty as twitchy says.

[twitchy]

Manu may be "fit" in theory but he is no where near his best and hasn't had a run of games for years. He is incredibly rusty. Best leave him at tigers this season and build him back up for england next season.

I know that's everyone's line at the moment and of course I get it, just playing devil's advocate really. Another top-level game this week (Racing), Cardiff Blue next weekend and then Italy (arguably similar standard) and then we're in mid-Feb, by which point, that's another three games, another three and a bit weeks... He'll be a lot fitter by then...

When you have been out for 3 years it's not just fitness. He is misplacing passes and dropping the ball etc. It's in nobodies best interests for him to come back into the national side right now.

[Puja]

Manu may be "fit" in theory but he is no where near his best and hasn't had a run of games for years. He is incredibly rusty. Best leave him at tigers this season and build him back up for england next season.

I know that's everyone's line at the moment and of course I get it, just playing devil's advocate really. Another top-level game this week (Racing), Cardiff Blue next weekend and then Italy (arguably similar standard) and then we're in mid-Feb, by which point, that's another three games, another three and a bit weeks... He'll be a lot fitter by then...

You're right in that he's a better selection than Te'o at the moment, but that is an awfully low bar to trip over.

I'm happier having Manu away from pressure right now. He has been back for 5 games, but that's effectively his first run of games in 2 years. To call his performances rusty would be awfully kind - if he wasn't Manu Tuilagi, then it'd be touch and go as to whether he'd be a first choice for Leicester on the last 5 games, let alone England.

However, I am pleased by the steady curve of improvement as he's kept playing and I'm really looking forward to seeing him this weekend - he's got a bit of rugby behind him, he's had a weekend off, he's in an exciting Leicester backline who are also fresh from a week off, and I'm hoping we'll see some of the magic back again - the young Tuilagi who ran at gaps, rather than people.

I can dream! Either way, he shouldn't be with England until after the second break at the very earliest.

Puja

[Puja]

When you have been out for 3 years it's not just fitness. He is misplacing passes and dropping the ball etc.

Actually, that does sound very much like England centre material. Pair him with Nowell - Can't Pass, Won't Pass!

Puja

[Banquo]

I thought we were agreed that it was lack of testicular fortitude that was why he got nowhere near Ward?

Whenever I've seen him, he's looked fast, nimble, clever, but utterly gutless. I don't get the criticism that he's getting when his main issue seems quite clear and obvious and pretty much everything else looks good.

He had a shocker against Quins shortly after Dad got fired - is that one game what people are basing their opinions on?

Puja

No, he was getting a whole load of stick earlier in the season for missing a shit ton of tackles when playing 10 and 12; the Ward incident wasn't gutlessness per se, just dreadful defending.

But people weren't previously giving him flack for his footwork, acceleration, decision-making, dress-sense, etc.

Puja

I was on decision making, and even when he was skippering us to JWC glory I expressed doubts. So there . And in fairness, footwork and acceleration tend to get more exposed at 15, plus you started arguing about his wing credentials, and thats the context for the acceleration piece.

[Banquo]

But where does Eddie want to play big Harry? Do we think he sees him as utility option? He may like Daly because he's a world-class winger but also be happy knowing he can cover 15, 13, 11, 14. Does he like Harry because he can play across the backline?

It may be that because as we know, there are better 10's, better centres and better wingers at this moment than Harry Mallinder.

think he's looking at both Nowell and Mallinder as utility cover.