Ratings?

[Stom]

Mako 7
Hartley 2 (he made 2 visible tackles and a couple of good clearouts early on. I can't really give him a 0).
Cole ? Was he playing?
Launch 7
Itoje 4
Lawes 3 Stupid ass penalties
Robshaw ... Now I know it's not a done thing to give 8s in defeat...but he was extremely good all match. I can't remember anything he did wrong... So 8
Hughes 7
Care 5
Ford 3
May 2
Farrell 3
Joseph 4
Watson 3
Brown 5

[Tigersman]

Brown 5 May 2.

What game didn’t you watch?

Care 5
Robshaw 8

Ahh must be a quins fan.

[Which Tyler]

This is not going to be a thread of happiness and light is it?

[WaspInWales]

Looks about right Stom.

As a team 4, Eddie 1

Scotland as a team 9

[fivepointer]

I'd give pass marks to Robshaw, who i thought was genuinely heroic, Launchbury and to Lawes.
Everyone else was well below par, with a few playing as poorly as i can recall.

[Scrumhead]

Fair ratings IMO.

Nowell and Williams were a marked improvement on the starters.

I also thought Underhill made a positive impact prior to the yellow. It killed our chances of a comeback, but the game was lost in the first half.

[Tigersman]

1 Vunipola 3
2 Hartley 2
3 Cole 2
4 Launch 6
5 Itoje 4
6 Lawes 3
7 Robshaw 7
8 Hughes 2
9 Care 3
10 Ford 3
11 May 4
12 Faz 6
13 JJ 4
14 Watson 4
15 Brown 1

[Stom]

1 Vunipola 3
2 Hartley 2
3 Cole 2
4 Launch 6
5 Itoje 4
6 Lawes 3
7 Robshaw 7
8 Hughes 2
9 Care 3
10 Ford 3
11 May 4
12 Faz 6
13 JJ 4
14 Watson 4
15 Brown 1

2 questions: Why did Mako score so low? He was decent, at least. Why was Farrell as good as Launch? We missed a hell of a lot of tackles, but Farrell comes out on top. His tackling was embarrassing. There was one in particular that stuck in the mind against Jones or Hogg, I can't remember, where he just kind of flapped and then slid off the player completely, leading to a break. Poor.

[Tigersman]

1 Vunipola 3
2 Hartley 2
3 Cole 2
4 Launch 6
5 Itoje 4
6 Lawes 3
7 Robshaw 7
8 Hughes 2
9 Care 3
10 Ford 3
11 May 4
12 Faz 6
13 JJ 4
14 Watson 4
15 Brown 1

2 questions: Why did Mako score so low? He was decent, at least. Why was Farrell as good as Launch? We missed a hell of a lot of tackles, but Farrell comes out on top. His tackling was embarrassing. There was one in particular that stuck in the mind against Jones or Hogg, I can't remember, where he just kind of flapped and then slid off the player completely, leading to a break. Poor.

Mako is in for his carrying mianly off which he really made no impact, maybe i'm being a bit harsh and he is prob a 4 though.

For Farrell only player in the team that showed some attacking line, he always misses a few tackles because in the Sarries and England system he rushes for me that is a system error more than a player one.

[p/d]

Jones - Muppet

[Digby]

Mako 6
Hartley 3
Cole 3
Launch 7 (just)
Itoje 5
Lawes 5
Robshaw 6
Hughes 6
Care 5
Ford 5
May 5
Farrell 6
JJ 6
Watson 6
Brown 4

[Banquo]

Mako 6
Hartley 3
Cole 3
Launch 7 (just)
Itoje 5
Lawes 5
Robshaw 6
Hughes 6
Care 5
Ford 5
May 5
Farrell 6
JJ 6
Watson 6
Brown 4

i'd take a point off all the 6's bar Robshaw. As much as I am a fan of JJ, he was poor today in defence- despite the scramble back, he generally was Teo like in getting stuck in no mans lands (though I'd agree he was trying to paper cracks)- in fact in defence our 'back 4' as it were, were terrible against both run and especially kick- positional play was very poor, the 'pendulum' was non-existent, and Scotland really hurt us.

[cashead]

The backs were always going to look like shit, because the forwards clearly went in taking for granted that they’d only just need to turn up to win. The Scots had other ideas, and it wasn’t until it was too late that they were even anywhere near decent.

Despite his yellow card, Underhill was the most effective forward in the breakdown as well.

[Banquo]

The backs were always going to look like shit, because the forwards clearly went in taking for granted that they’d only just need to turn up to win. The Scots had other ideas, and it wasn’t until it was too late that they were even anywhere near decent.

Despite his yellow card, Underhill was the most effective forward in the breakdown as well.

No excuse for shyte defence tho.

[cashead]

The backs were always going to look like shit, because the forwards clearly went in taking for granted that they’d only just need to turn up to win. The Scots had other ideas, and it wasn’t until it was too late that they were even anywhere near decent.

Despite his yellow card, Underhill was the most effective forward in the breakdown as well.

No excuse for shyte defence tho.

Oh, absolutely no excuse indeed. They were just falling off left and right.

Once they were put on the back foot, it was clear that it was something the England players just had no idea how to deal with, and the little errors ended up costing them big. There were at least 2 or 3 tries in the offering for them, only for it to be scuppered by a little mistake elsewhere that would wipe it out - the intercept try that never was in the second half is probably the most significant example.

It could be a mindset thing, where we see the wrong end of a team that has been so dominant for a while. England had only lost just the once to Ireland under Eddie Jones, and I think that's what cost them. As Bane put it "victory has defeated you!"

[Banquo]

The backs were always going to look like shit, because the forwards clearly went in taking for granted that they’d only just need to turn up to win. The Scots had other ideas, and it wasn’t until it was too late that they were even anywhere near decent.

Despite his yellow card, Underhill was the most effective forward in the breakdown as well.

No excuse for shyte defence tho.

Oh, absolutely no excuse indeed. They were just falling off left and right.

Once they were put on the back foot, it was clear that it was something the England players just had no idea how to deal with, and the little errors ended up costing them big. There were at least 2 or 3 tries in the offering for them, only for it to be scuppered by a little mistake elsewhere that would wipe it out - the intercept try that never was in the second half is probably the most significant example.

It could be a mindset thing, where we see the wrong end of a team that has been so dominant for a while. England had only lost just the once to Ireland under Eddie Jones, and I think that's what cost them. As Bane put it "victory has defeated you!"

Intensity, yep.

[Banquo]

Can someone help me out here- Planet Rugby is saying we miss Ben Youngs 'snappy pass'. WTF??

[Stom]

The backs were always going to look like shit, because the forwards clearly went in taking for granted that they’d only just need to turn up to win. The Scots had other ideas, and it wasn’t until it was too late that they were even anywhere near decent.

Despite his yellow card, Underhill was the most effective forward in the breakdown as well.

No excuse for shyte defence tho.

Oh, absolutely no excuse indeed. They were just falling off left and right.

Once they were put on the back foot, it was clear that it was something the England players just had no idea how to deal with, and the little errors ended up costing them big. There were at least 2 or 3 tries in the offering for them, only for it to be scuppered by a little mistake elsewhere that would wipe it out - the intercept try that never was in the second half is probably the most significant example.

It could be a mindset thing, where we see the wrong end of a team that has been so dominant for a while. England had only lost just the once to Ireland under Eddie Jones, and I think that's what cost them. As Bane put it "victory has defeated you!"

And while Eddie constantly talks about Hartley's leadership, when we're under the cosh like today, he does nothing to improve things. I'm going to be honest, today exposed Hartley for what he is, a leadership void.

[Digby]

Mako 6
Hartley 3
Cole 3
Launch 7 (just)
Itoje 5
Lawes 5
Robshaw 6
Hughes 6
Care 5
Ford 5
May 5
Farrell 6
JJ 6
Watson 6
Brown 4

i'd take a point off all the 6's bar Robshaw. As much as I am a fan of JJ, he was poor today in defence- despite the scramble back, he generally was Teo like in getting stuck in no mans lands (though I'd agree he was trying to paper cracks)- in fact in defence our 'back 4' as it were, were terrible against both run and especially kick- positional play was very poor, the 'pendulum' was non-existent, and Scotland really hurt us.

Partly it was the players making mistakes today, partly it's the system, partly some ongoing issues in selection. I don't really have a problem dropping the 6s down to 5, but I might then also drop Care and Lawes to a 4

Still, at least after our training time Vs the fearsome Georgians the scrum stood up to gain parity against the Jocks

[Digby]

today exposed Hartley for what he is, a leadership void.

hard to lead an imbalanced side, harder still when you're part of the problem

[Banquo]

Think Jones is going to be surprised at the backlash/hammering he may well get. Interesting to see how he copes!

[bitts]

This is pure speculation, and probably complete bollocks, but I wonder if the free pass Hartley gets does negatively effect morale.

It must be hard when you're told you have to be perfect to play. Only for Hartley to be captain when he's clearly our third best hooker. If that

[Spiffy]

This is pure speculation, and probably complete bollocks, but I wonder if the free pass Hartley gets does negatively effect morale.

It must be hard when you're told you have to be perfect to play. Only for Hartley to be captain when he's clearly our third best hooker. If that

If Jones is as astute as he is supposed to be, he would have got rid of Hartley long ago. A mediocre hooker at best. As for the legendary leadership skills - I've never seen them on the pitch. Maybe he does organize a good ping-pong tournament in training camp. You could well understand players on the margin of the squad being a tad frustrated with his continued selection which does seem undeserved.

[Mikey Brown]

The general assessment of Farrell on here is pretty interesting.

[Beasties]

Whilst we didn't go backwards in the scrums we were still wobblier than Scot on our own put in. I'm so bored of Cole and Hartley it's untrue.

I watched the whole second half hoping we'd lose. We were clearly second best today. The fact is none of us are surprised we lost at last, it's been coming a long time. Eddie really has to have a long hard think about this, we've been stinking the place out at times this year. It's so frustrating that he won't have a look at players that just might help things. Has anyone got an answer to the question of why he's so obsessed with playing all these locks instead of flankers?

I think it's more than likely that Eddie will just stick to his guns and just work the players even harder. He may well even just put exactly the same team out due to his stubborness. There's certainly not gonna be a revolution.

Oh, and having listened to the pre match build up for the first time in ages, I won't be doing that again. The Faz jizz fest from the Beeb was just revolting to listen to.