What next?

[Tigersman]

Walker? would rather cokanasiga in a who da fuck cares team.

[Mellsblue]

Farrell......Potentially worth sticking with, since he does always seem to work hard to improve.

Is this tongue in cheek? After 58 caps I hope so.

[p/d]

I’m not even sure Cipriani is particularly quick anymore but couldn’t think of anybody else.

J Simmonds

[p/d]

Farrell......Potentially worth sticking with, since he does always seem to work hard to improve.

Is this tongue in cheek? After 58 caps I hope so.

His kicking seems to have waned somewhat since JW offered his help.

[kk67]

As a non-fan, I have to say Farrell had some good and bad moments. He's not the superstar the press make him out to be, but he does have all the necessary tools. If he could put the ingredients together a bit more often, he'd be very handy. Potentially worth sticking with, since he does always seem to work hard to improve.

Would still like to see Teo+Joseph paired up with Ford though.

Agreed. I'm no fan either but he can play.
I confess I have always secretly been a fan of the Ford/Farrell axis, when it clicks it's pretty good.

[Raggs]

Farrell......Potentially worth sticking with, since he does always seem to work hard to improve.

Is this tongue in cheek? After 58 caps I hope so.

Not every player really keeps improving. He's improving, and in another 18 months, may be able to keep combining the running with passing the ball. Should he have been able to do that before getting his first England caps? Probably, but by now I can see the point in keeping on with him in some ways.

[Timbo]

There’s a complete lack of objectivity when it comes to Owen Farrell on this forum imo. I’m happy to point out his flaws and weaknesses, but there’s very little acknowledgment when he does something good.

He has, to my mind, been far and away our biggest threat ball in hand all tournament. Don’t know what the stats say but his try’s, plus try assists must be out of sight from anyone else.

Watching yesterday the Te’o - Joseph partnership turned me cold. Whatever about Wigglesworth and Farrell inside them, neither Te’o nor Joseph can pass...or kick...a few times we had opportunities out wide and watching the two of them execute was appalling.

If it was up to me I’d want to see as many intelligent and good footballers in the team as possible. Whether that’s Farrell, Ford, Cipriani, Lozowski, Slade, Daly...I’m not bothered, and we can slot in a couple of athletes around them where needed.

[Tigersman]

I don't think anyone is calling for Faz to be dropped.
But he has had a long season and should at least be rested this summer.

Alot of locks for the RWC had a poor/average 6N's but they have also had a very long 18 months.
Vunipola
George
Cole (Been poor but no way Eddie will drop a 300+ pro game Prop with 81 england test caps and 2 x lion for a RWC espcially with no one else outside of Williams or Sinckler putting their hands up club wise).
Itoje
Lawes
Farrell
Watson
The only lions who had some impact IMO where Sinckler and Daly and both had decent breaks this season. (1 injured 1 banned).

and because of that the solid, not great but try hard senior players have looked poor to very poor.
Robshaw (Who tries so hard)
Hartley
Brown
Care

Eddie now need to sticks to his words and build depth in the SA tour. Keep the ones who looked good in that tour and add them into his 1st choice team in the AI's and go into the 6N's with no doubt who his main RWC squad will be none of this should i shouldn't i bring in Burgess crap Lancaster did 6 months before the RWC.

[Raggs]

Timbo, if a player doesn't run in a threatening manner 98 times out of a 100, should we praise him when the 2 times he does, he catches the defence out so completely by surprise they forgot to even mark him (that actually happened a season or two ago against France). His lack of threat then impacts on everyone else, as the defence can drift onto them, giving them less and less space.

[Mellsblue]

I think the lack of objectivity on Farrell lies away from here. He is almost universally hailed a world class player, a kicking automaton and defensive rock. None of which he is. On here, we think he’s a good player with quite a few flaws. Which he is, and which most players are.

[Timbo]

I think the lack of objectivity on Farrell lies away from here. He is almost universally hailed a world class player, a kicking automaton and defensive rock. None of which he is. On here, we think he’s a good player with quite a few flaws. Which he is, and which most players are.

I also agree with your first sentence. And if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick with regards to opinions here then fair enough.

There is an unhealthy focus on him on this forum though.

[Banquo]

I think the lack of objectivity on Farrell lies away from here. He is almost universally hailed a world class player, a kicking automaton and defensive rock. None of which he is. On here, we think he’s a good player with quite a few flaws. Which he is, and which most players are.

I also agree with your first sentence. And if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick with regards to opinions here then fair enough.

There is an unhealthy focus on him on this forum though.

That also reflects the unhealthy focus outside this forum, plus the fact that he is a fixture in the side. You should have been here when he hadn’t improved to OK. Even his staunchest critics have admitted he’s a decent squad member. What grates is the relentless crap about him in the press. He is also a totem of Eddies regime, with Hartley, so inevitably is a comment magnet.

[kk67]

He's the classic blonde haired swot at school who played at 10 and had a famous Daddy.
In my day they didn't even do 'tackling' and for crunch league games they were in Gstaad.

[Banquo]

He's the classic blonde haired swot at school who played at 10 and had a famous Daddy.
In my day they didn't even do 'tackling'.

Rhymes with swot, mebbe

[Timbo]

Timbo, if a player doesn't run in a threatening manner 98 times out of a 100, should we praise him when the 2 times he does, he catches the defence out so completely by surprise they forgot to even mark him (that actually happened a season or two ago against France). His lack of threat then impacts on everyone else, as the defence can drift onto them, giving them less and less space.

I guess I’d say that I disagree with your premise, at least as far as his running in this 6Nations goes. I can think of lots of great lines and line breaks from him this championship. And a number of great passes and kicks too. So if we’re talking skill sets, do we have another 12 at his level? Not imo.

That said, I’d be happy to trial a Ford-Te’o-Joseph midfield, individually I rate them all, but I’m not convinced it’d be any better. My bet would be that it’d be worse tbh.

[Stom]

I think the lack of objectivity on Farrell lies away from here. He is almost universally hailed a world class player, a kicking automaton and defensive rock. None of which he is. On here, we think he’s a good player with quite a few flaws. Which he is, and which most players are.

I also agree with your first sentence. And if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick with regards to opinions here then fair enough.

There is an unhealthy focus on him on this forum though.

That also reflects the unhealthy focus outside this forum, plus the fact that he is a fixture in the side. You should have been here when he hadn’t improved to OK. Even his staunchest critics have admitted he’s a decent squad member. What grates is the relentless crap about him in the press. He is also a totem of Eddies regime, with Hartley, so inevitably is a comment magnet.

Indeed. He gets more flack because he quite brilliantly represents everything wrong with Eddie's England. And everything right, for that matter. But that's harder to see after the last few performances.

The imbecilic mistakes, penalties and missed tackles, the inability to play what's in front of you, and the relentless shouting, chirping and arguing... It's horrible.

And it's not just Farrell. It's Itoje, but he at least does a lot of good work, too. It's Hartley.

[Banquo]

I also agree with your first sentence. And if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick with regards to opinions here then fair enough.

There is an unhealthy focus on him on this forum though.

That also reflects the unhealthy focus outside this forum, plus the fact that he is a fixture in the side. You should have been here when he hadn’t improved to OK. Even his staunchest critics have admitted he’s a decent squad member. What grates is the relentless crap about him in the press. He is also a totem of Eddies regime, with Hartley, so inevitably is a comment magnet.

Indeed. He gets more flack because he quite brilliantly represents everything wrong with Eddie's England. And everything right, for that matter. But that's harder to see after the last few performances.

The imbecilic mistakes, penalties and missed tackles, the inability to play what's in front of you, and the relentless shouting, chirping and arguing... It's horrible.

And it's not just Farrell. It's Itoje, but he at least does a lot of good work, too. It's Hartley.

Aye- bogans

[kk67]

There were several English players who got caught doing fecking stupid things. Maro's multiple pens at the lineout, Marler's swinging arm, Haskell trying to pull in the scrum-half. Stuff they probably thought they'd normally get away with at H.Q.
Farrell got caught early on for the late tackle and I thought his discipline and general behaviour after that moment was ok.

[Raggs]

Don't recall Haskell getting pinged.

[Mellsblue]

If even that’s true, we went from putting Ireland under pressure, getting the crowd going and possibly taking the lead to the exact opposite. If his behaviour improved then well done but as vice captain he shouldn’t make making that mistake at all.....especially as he consistently provides at least one a match.

[kk67]

Don't recall Haskell getting pinged.

Gardener gave it against George for not rolling away but Hask was side-door, offside and interfering with the 9.
Apart from the one time he did it,...you could see three other occasions when he was thinking about it.
I wish his ball-fever was tempered by technical knowledge. He'd have been a helluva player.

[Scrumhead]

I think the lack of objectivity on Farrell lies away from here. He is almost universally hailed a world class player, a kicking automaton and defensive rock. None of which he is. On here, we think he’s a good player with quite a few flaws. Which he is, and which most players are.

I also agree with your first sentence. And if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick with regards to opinions here then fair enough.

There is an unhealthy focus on him on this forum though.

That also reflects the unhealthy focus outside this forum, plus the fact that he is a fixture in the side. You should have been here when he hadn’t improved to OK. Even his staunchest critics have admitted he’s a decent squad member. What grates is the relentless crap about him in the press. He is also a totem of Eddies regime, with Hartley, so inevitably is a comment magnet.

Yep. This sums up my opinion on Farrell pretty well. However, I would say that he has shown a clear improvement in his running game (mainly at 12, but he also had a decent show-and-go yesterday) which suggests he has been working on that. If he could work on his tackling too, I would be reasonably happy with him at 12.

[I R Geech]

Couldn't help but notice how little England's magnificent leadership team were managing the ref. Any decent captain would be having a constant dialogue, chatting, putting thoughts in his head, clarifying, and in certain cases, an arm around the shoulder and some helpful advice. Absolutely none of that yesterday, and got eff all from Gardiner. So what what Dyls doing exactly?

[Banquo]

I also agree with your first sentence. And if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick with regards to opinions here then fair enough.

There is an unhealthy focus on him on this forum though.

That also reflects the unhealthy focus outside this forum, plus the fact that he is a fixture in the side. You should have been here when he hadn’t improved to OK. Even his staunchest critics have admitted he’s a decent squad member. What grates is the relentless crap about him in the press. He is also a totem of Eddies regime, with Hartley, so inevitably is a comment magnet.

Yep. This sums up my opinion on Farrell pretty well. However, I would say that he has shown a clear improvement in his running game (mainly at 12, but he also had a decent show-and-go yesterday) which suggests he has been working on that. If he could work on his tackling too, I would be reasonably happy with him at 12.

Well yes, he's improving, but suggests a low bar and high tolerance, given 'all' he needs to do, to be a decent 12 is develop his running game, vastly improve his defence...oh and his stilted passing especially left to right. Seriously, does any other player get such a luxury? 50 caps worth of improvement!!

[kk67]

Couldn't help but notice how little England's magnificent leadership team were managing the ref. Any decent captain would be having a constant dialogue, chatting, putting thoughts in his head, clarifying, and in certain cases, an arm around the shoulder and some helpful advice. Absolutely none of that yesterday, and got eff all from Gardiner. So what what Dyls doing exactly?

Rich,...have you seen this.