What have we learned this six nations?

[padprop]

1) Simmonds isn't an international 8, but could yet be an international 7.
2) Farrell isn't even in the top 3 best kickers in the six nations
3) We've lost our biggest advantage over other nations - Depth and impact of the bench, for a weird mix of unproven players and old-timers.
4) Number 9 is still so far from being sorted, with none of the credible options trailed.
5) We can't play a lock at 6 and I doubt we ever will.
6) However not having a lock at 6 made more lineout go to crap against Ireland.
7) The novelty of Ford and Farrell has worn off and its defensive frailties shown.
8) Robshaw is what everyone expects him to be, a grafter who looks like he has put some work into his jackalling. His lack of pace has been exposed a couple of times though.
9) We struggle to get scrum dominance against anyone, but we almost always gain parity.
10) Launchbury should be the first second row on the team sheet.
11) LCD was good around the park, but as many feared fluffed his lineouts.

[Mellsblue]

1) Simmonds isn't an 8 in this team/system. Ask him to play in a Read like role and the potential is very high indeed.

[Banquo]

I don't think any of that was new news really.

[fivepointer]

The really frustrating thing about this 6N's is that we havent improved, havent addressed our shortcomings, our players havent developed and we've lost the habit of winning ugly.
I cant find much to be positive about bar a few players at least getting opportunities (Simmonds, Sinckler, LCD)
Its been a wretched tournament for us.

[Warrior85]

I think what it's shown us is that tuilagi and Billy need to get form/fitness consistently. As on top form they are our world class ball carriers.

Itoje needs a rest

If Farrell isn't kicking like he did a couple of seasons ago then, for me, shouldn't be in the side. Ford or hopefully Smith are better 10s and Slade is a more creative 10/centre.

[Banquo]

I think what it's shown us is that tuilagi and Billy need to get form/fitness consistently. As on top form they are our world class ball carriers.

Itoje needs a rest

If Farrell isn't kicking like he did a couple of seasons ago then, for me, shouldn't be in the side. Ford or hopefully Smith are better 10s and Slade is a more creative 10/centre.

True dat, many problems are rooted in poor carrying- though not all. For all Itoje needing a rest, he's been pretty consistent with hard work, and precision at restarts.

Faz is kicking like he was- he's always been less good than portrayed.

[Digby]

When did LCD fluff his lineouts?

[Scrumhead]

1) Simmonds isn't an international 8, but could yet be an international 7.

I tend to agree. However, I think he can be used as an 8 in another system/a game plan that suits his style.

2) Farrell isn't even in the top 3 best kickers in the six nations

Farrell's kicking was poor all tournament, but that is an anomaly. Ordinarily, he would still be up there among the best kickers in the tournament. He's Top 3 by reputation which has always been somewhat overblown. Top 5 is more realistic. However, given that this is one of the primary arguments for picking him, it does raise other questions.

3) We've lost our biggest advantage over other nations - Depth and impact of the bench, for a weird mix of unproven players and old-timers.

This is largely down to poor selection choices and misfortune with injuries. We haven't lost the depth, Eddie just utilised it very badly.

4) Number 9 is still so far from being sorted, with none of the credible options trailed.

100% agree. A problem entirely of Eddie's own making.

5) We can't play a lock at 6 and I doubt we ever will.

Agreed. Hopefully this has been conclusively proved.

6) However not having a lock at 6 made more lineout go to crap against Ireland.

Not sure I agree with this. Let's also give the Irish some credit for being very good at disrupting our ball. We also did the same to them, but got on the wrong side of Gardner.

7) The novelty of Ford and Farrell has worn off and its defensive frailties shown.

Agreed on the defensive frailties. Farrell badly needs some tackling lessons. However, if the pack were producing front foot ball, I think they would have been a lot better in attack.

8) Robshaw is what everyone expects him to be, a grafter who looks like he has put some work into his jackalling. His lack of pace has been exposed a couple of times though.

Robshaw is much maligned and he is destined to be forever underrated, but he still managed to put in the most consistently good positions in our pack despite being played out of position.

9) We struggle to get scrum dominance against anyone, but we almost always gain parity.

True, but surely we should be aspiring to dominate some teams?

10) Launchbury should be the first second row on the team sheet.

100% agree.

11) LCD was good around the park, but as many feared fluffed his lineouts.

I'd take the rough with the smooth. His lineouts have improved and I think he brings enough (at least as an impact sub) to play a key role in the last quarter. His throwing is a worry if we're chasing a game, but having him as an option to lay the hammer down in a game we're already ahead in would be great.

I'd also add another couple of points:

12) Eddie needs to swallow his pride and appoint an attack coach as he's clearly not managing to do it well enough himself.
13) Eddie's game plan is too rigid and our players seem incapable of thinking on their feet. We need a game plan that allows for situational flexibility and the on-field leadership to change things as required.
14) We need a proper plan B for when Billy/Hughes in unavailable. All of other options at 8 - Simmonds, Mercer, Clifford etc/ are more lightweight, mobile options than heavy carriers. We need to look at the back-row balance to accommodate this. A big, nasty 6 like Armand, Chisholm or possibly Brad Sheilds would help.
15) The jackal is not dead. We have players that can perform this role, so let's look at how we can incorporate this in to our game plan.

[Banquo]

When did LCD fluff his lineouts?

there was one lost on the French line, didn't appear to be all down to him.

[Warrior85]

(This was in reply to Banquo)

Farrells kicking has never been as good as made out but it was still very good, much better than recent form and better than most other EQP 10s.

I agree on Itoje, he still had been full of hard work but it either has lots it's edge or I guess teams have worked a way to nullify him a little bit.

[Digby]

When did LCD fluff his lineouts?

there was one lost on the French line, didn't appear to be all down to him.

Nope, too much movement and a lift that wasn't completed. The next lineout they set and threw much quicker into a more stable lineout and won the ball. I doubt anyone is going to say LCD is a great thrower, but you couldn't watch this 6N series and say he fluffed his throws unless you ignored the actual rugby

[Banquo]

(This was in reply to Banquo)

Farrells kicking has never been as good as made out but it was still very good, much better than recent form and better than most other EQP 10s.

I agree on Itoje, he still had been full of hard work but it either has lots it's edge or I guess teams have worked a way to nullify him a little bit.

surely it should be the best, based on your original point . His domestic percentage is lower than Ford's this season, and his 6N % terrible.

[kk67]

13) Eddie's game plan is too rigid and our players seem incapable of thinking on their feet. We need a game plan that allows for situational flexibility and the on-field leadership to change things as required.
14) We need a proper plan B for when Billy/Hughes in unavailable. All of other options at 8 - Simmonds, Mercer, Clifford etc/ are more lightweight, mobile options than heavy carriers.

I cannot understand why he thought going back to paint-by-numbers was a good tactical move for this game.

[p/d]

11) LCD was good around the park, but as many feared fluffed his lineouts.

Really? Thought his first throw was an absolute gem. That said I assume Hartley wasn't at fault yesterday.

[Mellsblue]

Hartley never fluffs a lineout, whereas George and LCD are error prone. Farrell never misses a kick at posts whilst Ford always has meltdowns, and round and round we go, down the plug hole of mediocrity.

[Raggs]

When did LCD fluff his lineouts?

there was one lost on the French line, didn't appear to be all down to him.

Nope, too much movement and a lift that wasn't completed. The next lineout they set and threw much quicker into a more stable lineout and won the ball. I doubt anyone is going to say LCD is a great thrower, but you couldn't watch this 6N series and say he fluffed his throws unless you ignored the actual rugby

He was ridiculously lucky to not be called on his dummy throw, after the lineout that went wrong.

[Rich]

Hartley never fluffs a lineout, whereas George and LCD are error prone. Farrell never misses a kick at posts whilst Ford always has meltdowns, and round and round we go, down the plug hole of mediocrity.

Do you actually watch rugby ?

Hartley is far from 100% consistency at the line out and although LCD misses a couple he is far better than George who displays the accuracy of a 5 year old playing Blind Man's Bluff.

I suggest you watch a recording of yesterday's game - Farrell absolutely DOES miss kicks at goal.

[Raggs]

Hartley never fluffs a lineout, whereas George and LCD are error prone. Farrell never misses a kick at posts whilst Ford always has meltdowns, and round and round we go, down the plug hole of mediocrity.

Do you actually watch rugby ?

Hartley is far from 100% consistency at the line out and although LCD misses a couple he is far better than George who displays the accuracy of a 5 year old playing Blind Man's Bluff.

I suggest you watch a recording of yesterday's game - Farrell absolutely DOES miss kicks at goal.

Is it a bird, is it a plane, is it superman? No, it's Mellsblues point!

[p/d]

[kk67]

I'm gonna crash this irony airplane like a mofo'.

[Banquo]

Hartley never fluffs a lineout, whereas George and LCD are error prone. Farrell never misses a kick at posts whilst Ford always has meltdowns, and round and round we go, down the plug hole of mediocrity.

Do you actually watch rugby ?

Hartley is far from 100% consistency at the line out and although LCD misses a couple he is far better than George who displays the accuracy of a 5 year old playing Blind Man's Bluff.

I suggest you watch a recording of yesterday's game - Farrell absolutely DOES miss kicksat goal.

Lol - you’ve surpassed yourself

[Warrior85]

Hartley never fluffs a lineout, whereas George and LCD are error prone. Farrell never misses a kick at posts whilst Ford always has meltdowns, and round and round we go, down the plug hole of mediocrity.

Do you actually watch rugby ?

Hartley is far from 100% consistency at the line out and although LCD misses a couple he is far better than George who displays the accuracy of a 5 year old playing Blind Man's Bluff.

I suggest you watch a recording of yesterday's game - Farrell absolutely DOES miss kicks at goal.

Wow! That's incredible! I didn't think it was possible to miss the point of a post by that much!

[Digby]

there was one lost on the French line, didn't appear to be all down to him.

Nope, too much movement and a lift that wasn't completed. The next lineout they set and threw much quicker into a more stable lineout and won the ball. I doubt anyone is going to say LCD is a great thrower, but you couldn't watch this 6N series and say he fluffed his throws unless you ignored the actual rugby

He was ridiculously lucky to not be called on his dummy throw, after the lineout that went wrong.

I'd noted somewhere in the France thread he might want to look at his action, he might not think it's a dummy but he's daring a ref to think otherwise

[Raggs]

Nope, too much movement and a lift that wasn't completed. The next lineout they set and threw much quicker into a more stable lineout and won the ball. I doubt anyone is going to say LCD is a great thrower, but you couldn't watch this 6N series and say he fluffed his throws unless you ignored the actual rugby

He was ridiculously lucky to not be called on his dummy throw, after the lineout that went wrong.

I'd noted somewhere in the France thread he might want to look at his action, he might not think it's a dummy but he's daring a ref to think otherwise

His general action is close all the time, but one of the throws was a straight up dummy, not one of the little twitchy jerks he often does.

[Banquo]

He was ridiculously lucky to not be called on his dummy throw, after the lineout that went wrong.

I'd noted somewhere in the France thread he might want to look at his action, he might not think it's a dummy but he's daring a ref to think otherwise

His general action is close all the time, but one of the throws was a straight up dummy, not one of the little twitchy jerks he often does.

Poor Twitchy, not even the AWC to look forward to.