What have we learned this six nations?

[16th man]

(This was in reply to Banquo)

Farrells kicking has never been as good as made out but it was still very good, much better than recent form and better than most other EQP 10s.

I agree on Itoje, he still had been full of hard work but it either has lots it's edge or I guess teams have worked a way to nullify him a little bit.

Itoje's an athletic lock, who get's close to being another back rower at the breakdown. England's decision to largely not compete for the ball has taken away an area in which he stood out.

[Banquo]

(This was in reply to Banquo)

Farrells kicking has never been as good as made out but it was still very good, much better than recent form and better than most other EQP 10s.

I agree on Itoje, he still had been full of hard work but it either has lots it's edge or I guess teams have worked a way to nullify him a little bit.

Itoje's an athletic lock, who get's close to being another back rower at the breakdown. England's decision to largely not compete for the ball has taken away an area in which he stood out.

Indeed, sooner he was giving away those penalties (if at all) than the silly crap.

[Mellsblue]

(This was in reply to Banquo)

Farrells kicking has never been as good as made out but it was still very good, much better than recent form and better than most other EQP 10s.

I agree on Itoje, he still had been full of hard work but it either has lots it's edge or I guess teams have worked a way to nullify him a little bit.

Itoje's an athletic lock, who get's close to being another back rower at the breakdown. England's decision to largely not compete for the ball has taken away an area in which he stood out.

Indeed, sooner he was giving away those penalties (if at all) than the silly crap.

He needs to start all that maniacal cheering again. He was invincible when doing that.

[kk67]

It's always the coaches that distract players from playing their natural game. They get a totemic 'leader by example' and they try and ruin them by getting them to be chippy, moaning dicks.

[morepork]

(This was in reply to Banquo)

Farrells kicking has never been as good as made out but it was still very good, much better than recent form and better than most other EQP 10s.

I agree on Itoje, he still had been full of hard work but it either has lots it's edge or I guess teams have worked a way to nullify him a little bit.

Itoje's an athletic lock, who get's close to being another back rower at the breakdown. England's decision to largely not compete for the ball has taken away an area in which he stood out.

His whole game at the breakdown is based around spoiling the opposition ball. It's relentlessly negative. That's why he gets pinged so often.

[kk67]

It's relentlessly negative. That's why he gets pinged so often.

I don't think that's true.

[Banquo]

It's always the coaches that distract players from playing their natural game. They get a totemic 'leader by example' and they try and ruin them by getting them to be chippy, moaning dicks.

Nah its refs with their simultaneous megalomania and lack of charisma

[kk67]

It's always the coaches that distract players from playing their natural game. They get a totemic 'leader by example' and they try and ruin them by getting them to be chippy, moaning dicks.

Nah its refs with their simultaneous megalomania and lack of charisma

Well....possibly.
Personally I think you need a quiet 'leader by example'. Old school big boy.

[Tom Moore]

1) Simmonds isn't an international 8, but could yet be an international 7.
2) Farrell isn't even in the top 3 best kickers in the six nations
3) We've lost our biggest advantage over other nations - Depth and impact of the bench, for a weird mix of unproven players and old-timers.
4) Number 9 is still so far from being sorted, with none of the credible options trailed.
5) We can't play a lock at 6 and I doubt we ever will.
6) However not having a lock at 6 made more lineout go to crap against Ireland.
7) The novelty of Ford and Farrell has worn off and its defensive frailties shown.
8) Robshaw is what everyone expects him to be, a grafter who looks like he has put some work into his jackalling. His lack of pace has been exposed a couple of times though.
9) We struggle to get scrum dominance against anyone, but we almost always gain parity.
10) Launchbury should be the first second row on the team sheet.
11) LCD was good around the park, but as many feared fluffed his lineouts.

6 is fixable with a proper flanker who is a lineout option at 6, Shields or Rhodes.

[Banquo]

It's always the coaches that distract players from playing their natural game. They get a totemic 'leader by example' and they try and ruin them by getting them to be chippy, moaning dicks.

Nah its refs with their simultaneous megalomania and lack of charisma

Well....possibly.
Personally I think you need a quiet 'leader by example'. Old school big boy.

yep. Strong silent type , who commands respect, rather than demanding it!

[padprop]

there was one lost on the French line, didn't appear to be all down to him.

Nope, too much movement and a lift that wasn't completed. The next lineout they set and threw much quicker into a more stable lineout and won the ball. I doubt anyone is going to say LCD is a great thrower, but you couldn't watch this 6N series and say he fluffed his throws unless you ignored the actual rugby

He was ridiculously lucky to not be called on his dummy throw, after the lineout that went wrong.

This. He just looked so nervous throwing the ball, and thats the biggest worry.

[kk67]

Nah its refs with their simultaneous megalomania and lack of charisma

Well....possibly.
Personally I think you need a quiet 'leader by example'. Old school big boy.

yep. Strong silent type , who commands respect, rather than demanding it!

I'd rather not load Launch' with more responsibility but I'd probably have asked him 12 months ago if he wanted it.

[Banquo]

Well....possibly.
Personally I think you need a quiet 'leader by example'. Old school big boy.

yep. Strong silent type , who commands respect, rather than demanding it!

I'd rather not load Launch' with more responsibility but I'd probably have asked him 12 months ago if he wanted it.

I didn't think of him frankly- tbh we are light on candidates

[p/d]

Launch might be nervous of talking to the ref, which would be a big worry

[kk67]

yep. Strong silent type , who commands respect, rather than demanding it!

I'd rather not load Launch' with more responsibility but I'd probably have asked him 12 months ago if he wanted it.

I didn't think of him frankly- tbh we are light on candidates

You're light on creative forwards. Come back Nick,...all is forgiven.

[Banquo]

I'd rather not load Launch' with more responsibility but I'd probably have asked him 12 months ago if he wanted it.

I didn't think of him frankly- tbh we are light on candidates

You're light on creative forwards. Come back Nick,...all is forgiven.

True outside the props, and LCD, handling skill levels are low up front in those picked; Billy actually has his moments.

[p/d]

Charlie Ewels it is. My months of wondering why he is always called back into the training squad then sent packing are answered.

[kk67]

Mako carries, Launch bridges and Billy picks.
Yeah,....nice.

Or any combination of the above.

[Digby]

Nope, too much movement and a lift that wasn't completed. The next lineout they set and threw much quicker into a more stable lineout and won the ball. I doubt anyone is going to say LCD is a great thrower, but you couldn't watch this 6N series and say he fluffed his throws unless you ignored the actual rugby

He was ridiculously lucky to not be called on his dummy throw, after the lineout that went wrong.

This. He just looked so nervous throwing the ball, and thats the biggest worry.

When you said he'd fluffed lineouts I didn't appreciate you meant he looked nervous, my bad

[Scrumhead]

yep. Strong silent type , who commands respect, rather than demanding it!

I'd rather not load Launch' with more responsibility but I'd probably have asked him 12 months ago if he wanted it.

I didn't think of him frankly- tbh we are light on candidates

Indeed we are. I find it odd that the leadership is so absent given that a number of our players have experience of captaining sides at either club or age grace level and we have the former captain on the pitch too.

I keep thinking that Brad Shields couldn’t have timed his move any more perfectly ... we definitely have space for a 6/8 and it’s not insignificant that he is currently captaining the Hurricanes ahead of several All Blacks.

He could be another Brendan O’Connor or New Zealand’s loss could be our gain. We might find out this summer.

[kk67]

There is an analogue between Neil Back and George Ford.

[kk67]

Luxury Giraffe.....lol.
Pick the creatives. FFS.

[Timbo]

1) Simmonds isn't an international 8, but could yet be an international 7.
2) Farrell isn't even in the top 3 best kickers in the six nations
3) We've lost our biggest advantage over other nations - Depth and impact of the bench, for a weird mix of unproven players and old-timers.
4) Number 9 is still so far from being sorted, with none of the credible options trailed.
5) We can't play a lock at 6 and I doubt we ever will.
6) However not having a lock at 6 made more lineout go to crap against Ireland.
7) The novelty of Ford and Farrell has worn off and its defensive frailties shown.
8) Robshaw is what everyone expects him to be, a grafter who looks like he has put some work into his jackalling. His lack of pace has been exposed a couple of times though.
9) We struggle to get scrum dominance against anyone, but we almost always gain parity.
10) Launchbury should be the first second row on the team sheet.
11) LCD was good around the park, but as many feared fluffed his lineouts.

6 is fixable with a proper flanker who is a lineout option at 6, Shields or Rhodes.

Or Armand...

[Tom Moore]

1) Simmonds isn't an international 8, but could yet be an international 7.
2) Farrell isn't even in the top 3 best kickers in the six nations
3) We've lost our biggest advantage over other nations - Depth and impact of the bench, for a weird mix of unproven players and old-timers.
4) Number 9 is still so far from being sorted, with none of the credible options trailed.
5) We can't play a lock at 6 and I doubt we ever will.
6) However not having a lock at 6 made more lineout go to crap against Ireland.
7) The novelty of Ford and Farrell has worn off and its defensive frailties shown.
8) Robshaw is what everyone expects him to be, a grafter who looks like he has put some work into his jackalling. His lack of pace has been exposed a couple of times though.
9) We struggle to get scrum dominance against anyone, but we almost always gain parity.
10) Launchbury should be the first second row on the team sheet.
11) LCD was good around the park, but as many feared fluffed his lineouts.

6 is fixable with a proper flanker who is a lineout option at 6, Shields or Rhodes.

Or Armand...

Fair point. He needed a lot more time than he got yesterday.

[Beasties]

yep. Strong silent type , who commands respect, rather than demanding it!

I'd rather not load Launch' with more responsibility but I'd probably have asked him 12 months ago if he wanted it.

I didn't think of him frankly- tbh we are light on candidates

Launch is a leader by example type, but I've yet to be convinced he's doing a good enough job for Wasps. He gets a fair amount of criticism for not being in the ref's ear any where near enough. Eddie doesn't seem that arsed about selecting him in any case for him to even be a possibility for the captaincy.