What next?

[fivepointer]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... uth-africa

Changes seem likely for the SA trip.

"Jones said he was relishing the three-Test series against South Africa but admitted significant changes to his squad are likely, with a number of underperforming players facing the axe, and a proportion of his 15 Lions could be rested. “We still have to look at how we look after the Lions players,” he said. “That’s still a concern for us. We will do that, and that was always in the plans. We’ll just see if there are any players who will benefit more from not going on the tour. It’s going to be fantastic for us and South Africa are going to be a rejuvenated team. I’ll go back to watching club games and the Under-20s and see how we can strengthen the squad.”

[WaspInWales]

Hmmm, if it was always in the plans, the 6 Nations was the perfect opportunity to rest some players and try out the likes of Armand for the full 80 mins. Plus Ford at 10 with kicking responsibilities.

Instead, lets blood some new players on the high veldt.

Genius.

[Raggs]

You can't really rest players during the 6N though, since the clubs will simply use them in their club games.

[Greebo]

I thought Eddie said we were missing leadership during the match and then he says:

“Some people are born leaders and others aren’t,” he said. “The ones who aren’t take a bit of time. That’s a big area for us guys to get right, and it does take time. We need more guys like Owen Farrell and to do that you need more time to develop. And when you are developing people who aren’t Owen Farrell and you are asking them to do other things, sometimes the weight of those things affects their performance in a negative way.”

What leadership does Owen bring? I didn't see a great deal of it on Saturday.

[Raggs]

He shouts a lot, especially at telling players to get up off the floor. He is very vocal, and very hard working, probably good at telling people what to do as well. Unfortunately, I don't think his actual judgement is that good.

His Haskell kick, pass to touch, and great workrate, have him reminding me more and more of a smaller and less effective version of Twelvetrees.

[TheDasher]

We need to define how we want to play. Has Eddie done that? Ireland and Wales have more identity than our team, I'm not sure what we're trying to do.

EJ kept banging on about having a totally dominant, big and 'mean' pack. But he hasn't particularly gone with that over the past say 5 games.

I'd make a lot of changes for SA personally. For starters I'd drop Hartley, Cole, Mako (rest), Robshaw, Haskell, Hughes, Care, May (rest) Joseph (rest) and Wigglesworth.

I'd be looking hard at Genge, LCD, Sinkler, Williams, Willis, Armand, Curryx2, Taylor, Robson, Solomona, Mercer, Slade, Loz.

Again, though, how do we want to play? The players above suggest mobility and dynamism - is that our best option, or should we revert back to organised stodge, WITH accuracy. I don't know what Eddie's doing and at the moment, I don't think he does either.

[p/d]

If we have been’beastng’ players at training sessions what is the point moaning about the Lions.

As far as I can garner Jones generally talks bollocks and uses the same players who could be part of the problem as those as the standard he expects others to emulate

[TheDasher]

I've been shot down on here recently for this but FFS he should've brought Morgan back in. Not playing great for Gloucester etc... whatever, he's played very well for England and we needed line-breaking ball carrier as a Billy stand in. Too logical imv.

[Raggs]

Has Morgan even been playing for Glaws recently? I believe he's injured.

[TheDasher]

Has Morgan even been playing for Glaws recently? I believe he's injured.

That my friend is a very reasonable point...

He is.

I'm still in 'rant' mode from Saturday. He should've called Morgan up at the beginning of the 6ns, before he was injured.

Now just waiting to be told that Morgan was also injured at the beginning of the 6ns...

[fivepointer]

Some of the Lions will miss SA (as they should) but not all. We've been here before. The AI's were supposed to be about standing down the Lions and trying out a few alternatives. It didnt exactly work out that way though.
I suspect Eddie will assess players on a case by case basis. It will depend a bit on workload from now until the end of the season. Saracens might be involved in 10 games, Wasps might have 7 while Quins are unlikely to get more than 5.
There will certainly be injuries to factor in. I think Lawes and Hughes are touch and go, and it doesnt look good for Watson. A few more players get knocks over the next few weeks and selections may be about just who is available.

[Banquo]

I've been shot down on here recently for this but FFS he should've brought Morgan back in. Not playing great for Gloucester etc... whatever, he's played very well for England and we needed line-breaking ball carrier as a Billy stand in. Too logical imv.

He hasn't played for England for over 2 years, and wasn't very good post leg break, which I fear has de-railed him internationally permanently. He's not even playing for Glaws at present, and has only played 8 games this season, and injured since start of Feb, having had two months out before xmas.

[Banquo]

Has Morgan even been playing for Glaws recently? I believe he's injured.

That my friend is a very reasonable point...

He is.

I'm still in 'rant' mode from Saturday. He should've called Morgan up at the beginning of the 6ns, before he was injured.

Now just waiting to be told that Morgan was also injured at the beginning of the 6ns...

He was out for 6 weeks from sept to mid october, and then again almost all Nov/December

[p/d]

I've been shot down on here recently for this but FFS he should've brought Morgan back in. Not playing great for Gloucester etc... whatever, he's played very well for England and we needed line-breaking ball carrier as a Billy stand in. Too logical imv.

He hasn't played for England for over 2 years, and wasn't very good post leg break, which I fear has de-railed him internationally permanently. He's not even playing for Glaws at present, and has only played 8 games this season, and injured since start of Feb, having had two months out before xmas.

What's your point?

[Banquo]

Some of the Lions will miss SA (as they should) but not all. We've been here before. The AI's were supposed to be about standing down the Lions and trying out a few alternatives. It didnt exactly work out that way though.
I suspect Eddie will assess players on a case by case basis. It will depend a bit on workload from now until the end of the season. Saracens might be involved in 10 games, Wasps might have 7 while Quins are unlikely to get more than 5.
There will certainly be injuries to factor in. I think Lawes and Hughes are touch and go, and it doesnt look good for Watson. A few more players get knocks over the next few weeks and selections may be about just who is available.

TFH 3

[Banquo]

I've been shot down on here recently for this but FFS he should've brought Morgan back in. Not playing great for Gloucester etc... whatever, he's played very well for England and we needed line-breaking ball carrier as a Billy stand in. Too logical imv.

He hasn't played for England for over 2 years, and wasn't very good post leg break, which I fear has de-railed him internationally permanently. He's not even playing for Glaws at present, and has only played 8 games this season, and injured since start of Feb, having had two months out before xmas.

What's your point?

Been on the Bucky.

Morgan is quality. Feck you.

[TheDasher]

I've been shot down on here recently for this but FFS he should've brought Morgan back in. Not playing great for Gloucester etc... whatever, he's played very well for England and we needed line-breaking ball carrier as a Billy stand in. Too logical imv.

He hasn't played for England for over 2 years, and wasn't very good post leg break, which I fear has de-railed him internationally permanently. He's not even playing for Glaws at present, and has only played 8 games this season, and injured since start of Feb, having had two months out before xmas.

Whatever.

I still would've picked him on Saturday, broken leg or not.

[p/d]

I've been shot down on here recently for this but FFS he should've brought Morgan back in. Not playing great for Gloucester etc... whatever, he's played very well for England and we needed line-breaking ball carrier as a Billy stand in. Too logical imv.

He hasn't played for England for over 2 years, and wasn't very good post leg break, which I fear has de-railed him internationally permanently. He's not even playing for Glaws at present, and has only played 8 games this season, and injured since start of Feb, having had two months out before xmas.

Whatever.

I still would've picked him on Saturday, broken leg or not.

To be fair, at times it looked as if we might have.

[Mellsblue]

I've been shot down on here recently for this but FFS he should've brought Morgan back in. Not playing great for Gloucester etc... whatever, he's played very well for England and we needed line-breaking ball carrier as a Billy stand in. Too logical imv.

He hasn't played for England for over 2 years, and wasn't very good post leg break, which I fear has de-railed him internationally permanently. He's not even playing for Glaws at present, and has only played 8 games this season, and injured since start of Feb, having had two months out before xmas.

Whatever.

I still would've picked him on Saturday, broken leg or not.

You can’t fault the logic.

[TheDasher]

He hasn't played for England for over 2 years, and wasn't very good post leg break, which I fear has de-railed him internationally permanently. He's not even playing for Glaws at present, and has only played 8 games this season, and injured since start of Feb, having had two months out before xmas.

Whatever.

I still would've picked him on Saturday, broken leg or not.

You can’t fault the logic.

Exactly. Morgan with no legs may have brought more to the table than some have this 6ns. EJ is a fool for not picking him regardless of injury.

[Tigersman]

It's a known fact Glous and England don't mix..... that being said isn't Ackermann ahead of him anyway with Ludlow and JP on the flanks?

Lions players who i think will tour
Marler, Sinckler, Kruis, Haskell, Te'o, Nowell, Daly,

[Banquo]

Whatever.

I still would've picked him on Saturday, broken leg or not.

You can’t fault the logic.

Exactly. Morgan with no legs may have brought more to the table than some have this 6ns. EJ is a fool for not picking him regardless of injury.

[fivepointer]

It's a known fact Glous and England don't mix..... that being said isn't Ackermann ahead of him anyway with Ludlow and JP on the flanks?

Lions players who i think will tour
Marler, Sinckler, Kruis, Haskell, Te'o, Nowell, Daly,

I can see those going assuming they are fit. None have been exactly flogged this season.

Think Morgans time has gone but Woodward is a Glos player who should be under consideration.

[Tigersman]

I would like to see a test team of (Adding Haskell because i think Eddie would play him).
1. Genge, 2. Cowan-Dickie (will be hartley), 3. Sinckler
4. Kruis, 5. Launchbury (C)
6. Wilson, 7. Haskell (Should be Armand), 8. Vunipola
9. Youngs, 10. Ford
12. Lozowski, 13. Tuilagi
11. May, 14. Nowell, 15. Daly (Honestly i would rest Daly and start Woodward with smith on the bench but can see him touring)

16. Taylor(will be Cowan-dickie), 17. Marler, 18. Williams
19. Isiewke, 20. Willis/Mercer/Underhill
21. Robson, 22. Woodward, 23. Cokanasiga

[Banquo]

Nice to see Daly actually play 15 for his club this season before starting him there for England.