If you don't like the ref ask for a replay

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:59 pm

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/324233

The IRB really are a bunch of sniveling useless bastards. There's a good deal more I'd like to say on this issue but presently I find I'm effectively under a gag order. But for now the IRB and Allain Rolland have managed to sink to new depths in my estimation.

Post by **Puja** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:30 pm

It's got a lot more complicated than just "If you don't like the ref" now, hasn't it? There's a thread about it here: http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/viewtop ... =28&t=2661

Luckily for the IRB, it looks like Romania are going to be disqualified for fielding an ineligible player anyway, which will allow them to neatly sidestep the issue of whether the game should be replayed.

Puja

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:34 pm

Romania and Spain are both in some trouble over some players so it's not even just Romania who have an issue, and Romania don't think they're without legal recourse anyway.

And if Spain do go ahead of Russia, and I don't know what corrective steps might be taken, we can be reasonably certain Russia will point out they scored perfectly good tries against Spain which a certain blind Irish referee (who continues to get bookings as a ref at test level btw) totally missed.

Post by **Puja** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:41 pm

Digby wrote:Romania and Spain are both in some trouble over some players so it's not even just Romania who have an issue, and Romania don't think they're without legal recourse anyway.

And if Spain do go ahead of Russia, and I don't know what corrective steps might be taken, we can be reasonably certain Russia will point out they scored perfectly good tries against Spain which a certain blind Irish referee (who continues to get bookings as a ref at test level btw) totally missed.

Yeah, I went through the whole c-f on the other thread. It's an utter debacle. Given that Belgium are also in the dock over ineligible players, it's not out of the question that Germany could be the repechage team despite having such internal strife that they can barely field a team. I'm not sure how much of a case the Romanians have - not knowing is not an excuse, as Tahiti will tell you. Spain depends on if they did clear Belie with the IRB and thus set a precedent about U20s players.

While I do have sympathy for Russia and the screwing they got from the ref, the situation is different for Spain in that the ref had a clear conflict of interest and was requested to be removed before the game, only for the Romanian head of Rugby Europe to say there was no problem despite Marius van der Westhuizen getting pulled from England v Ireland for much less of a conflict shortly beforehand.

Puja

Raggs · Post by **Raggs** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:59 pm

They had asked repeatedly for a new ref before the game.

Romanian ref, Romanian head of rugby Europe refusing to change him, Romanian head of rugby Europe also happens to be the guy who setup the world cup television deal for Romanian tv.

Something smells I'm afraid.

Stom · Post by **Stom** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:43 pm

As we say in these parts, Welcome to Romania

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:02 pm

Again the Romanian ref asked to be removed himself and was told no. I'm also not in isolation buying the ref had a conflict of interest, certainly he had a perceived conflict of interest but that's not the same thing. As a for instance I watched Dickie Bird umpire England many times and never once was I under the impression Bird was biased in favour of England, Bird was reliably biased against the bowlers but that's a different thing.

Raggs is right that something stinks in all this however, and I don't know if those involved will ever step forward to explain their various roles, suffice to say none of the worst of this pertains to the referee in question.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:52 am

Replaying a controversial match will open a massive can of worms and should be avoided at all costs. Best to move on and fix the system for next time by having clear criteria around the neutrality of officials.

Oakboy · Post by **Oakboy** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:44 am

Now, Healey is questioning whether Nigel is too big a celebrity to referee fairly according to the laws.

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:22 pm

Lizard wrote:Replaying a controversial match will open a massive can of worms and should be avoided at all costs. Best to move on and fix the system for next time by having clear criteria around the neutrality of officials.

You'd have to suspect this will not be the only time a replay will be requested. Frankly it's not the only reffing appointment in this series of WC qualifiers between the likes of Germany, Spain, Romania and Russia where sides haven't been happy with an appointment. No doubt they're going to try and focus on the perception of bias but that's going to be absurdly easy to claim even before we get onto some rank bad performances.

kk67 · Post by **kk67** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:12 pm

Oakboy wrote:Now, Healey is questioning whether Nigel is too big a celebrity to referee fairly according to the laws.

Are there any ref's the English think are good..?. Or is Cockerills bullsh*t now ubiquitous in the English game..?.

Peej · Post by **Peej** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:15 pm

Lizard wrote:Replaying a controversial match will open a massive can of worms and should be avoided at all costs. Best to move on and fix the system for next time by having clear criteria around the neutrality of officials.

Agreed. They have to make a call based on the eligibility issues

Peat · Post by **Peat** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:47 pm

Oakboy wrote:Now, Healey is questioning whether Nigel is too big a celebrity to referee fairly according to the laws.

Yeah, but Healey...

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:43 am

Right, there will be a replay of Belgium Vs Spain, but only based on the perception of bias and not the performance of the ref, which means we can't have a replay of Scotland Vs England based on Owen's inclination to ignore the laws when it comes to the ruck.

However give Wales went ahead of England in the table based on the Scotland Vs England match then I'd have to suppose there is a perception of bias and we'll be having that game replayed. Indeed quite a lot of games are going to need to be replayed and the 2017/18 season is now due to complete around 2025 (assuming a good few replays of the replays and all that)

Galfon · Post by **Galfon** » Tue May 15, 2018 11:48 pm

oops..
Russia sneak into the finals, with Germany & Portugal playing for the privilege of giving Samoa a ticket through too.Romania,Spain and Belgium all on the naughty step.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44130763

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Wed May 16, 2018 9:12 am

I'm delighted they've decided on no replay, though WR may still push for it. I remain a little cross there has been so little support for the ref from other refs, indeed I'm not only cross I'm astonished they're willing to see one of their own hung out in such fashion when it could so easily happen to any of them

RugbyRebels

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