No ban for Marler's elbow drop

[Nightynight]

And you continue being selective on your arguments.

1 Do the majority of travelers assist, contribute to the wider community or choose not to under the principle of being 'different' to doing main stream...yes or no?answer the question don't side step?

I have no idea what the answer is as I have no idea what your definition of 'contribute' or 'wider community' is, and also as I do not know the majority of travellers or have an in depth knowledge of what they 'contribute' and to who, I would just be speculating. Just as you are.

2 The majority as you have said don't on tax alone, the question then still stands, they choose not to contribute but want the same rights and treatment. Do you think that it's a fair system. Yes or no?

Maybe if you calmed down a bit and actually read what people wrote, you would have noticed that I wrote 'A large proportion of the non travelling community are selective with what they declare with regards to tax'. So do I think that the Travellers who don't pay tax should have less rights on 'racial' prejudice than non travellers who don't pay tax? Then no. Their 'race' is irrelevant. Should a Chinese person who avoids tax forfeit their right to 'racial' protection? Then why should a traveller? Because in your opinion more than half of them avoid tax??

Do the people who think eating rhino and tiger bits is a medical remedy, do they outside of that madness do they parcipitate in their society is another bringing that into it is simply side stepping and a straw man argument to the question.

I have no idea what you are trying to articulate above!!

No marler is not a victim other than being dragged through a concept of racism based on a group who, and yes my opinion, don't deserve the status of being classed in those terms because of their own behaviour....just answer yes or no for questions 1 & 2 please.

As I said before your opinion is irrelevant. Both the law and World Rugby show that his comments were racist in nature and as a result he was punished. What their tax status is, is irrelevant.

Oh an what morals do travelers hold to solely that we would hold dear.... Great comment without any substance or explanation or backup to support your view, yeeattthhh!

I'm still waiting for your evidence to show that Samson Lee abused Marler first. Any chance of it??

And you accuse me of being precious!

The request was for a yes or no,

For the last time. Is it fair for a group who choose not to to be part of a society and not contribute to have same rights as the rest? Yes or no?

When did I say Lee started it'? I said that 2 front rows abusing each other at a scrum down was more likely than some racist conspiracy theory that You put up for The defence for marler's comments by others.... Made more common sense to me

[Nightynight]

I noted also you have neglected to answer the 'dear morals' question as well

[UKHamlet]

The request was for a yes or no,

For the last time. Is it fair for a group who choose not to to be part of a society and not contribute to have same rights as the rest? Yes or no?

YES.

This is actually an irrelevance. Lee participates in society and pays his taxes just like everyone else.

That aside, taking your hypothetical person who chooses not to be part of society and does not contribute. It depends on the sort of society. Ours values the principle of not discriminating on the basis of an individual's characteristics, be they ethnic group, disability, gender, sexual preference, religion and many other traits. So the answer is "yes", unequivocally.

Gypsies are defined in law as an ethnic group. Using the term "Gypsy boy" in a derogatory fashion is in clear breach of both the principles I've outlined and the law itself. Deriding Gypsies in this way and adding the term "boy", which in this context has clear racially motivated connotations is absolutely scandalous and should been met with an immediate and severe punishment. Ultimately, Marler got off lightly, but I suspect that's politics.

[cadofyddol]

Seems to me that some people are confusing the point about the fact that is English law and whether a comment over gypsies should be covered by that same law. 2 very different issues. I might not like the fact that the speed limit in a town centre is 30MPH,if I break it I can expect to be fined etc; my personal opinion is irrelevant.

Likewise, if I don't like the Traveling Community but make discriminatory comments, in public then you can expect legal repercussions. Marley made what is legally a discriminatory comment in his workplace. That is why he was investigated and eventually punished. The key issue that blew this out of all proportion was the lack of process used by the 6N committee.

Arguments over whether e should all consider gypsies to be different or not, or legally protected or not, has no bearing over what happened in that match and subsequently.

Yes it fucking does you moron, you can't have both ways. If you open a debate on a comment, you open the debate on why is it racism.


Maybe some people should wear yellow stars on their jackets, that's the law and shouldn't be questioned

Grow up Nighty! If you aren't prepared to discuss this like an adult and respect peoples' opinions rather than resorting to petty insults then do one!

You accused other people of not being able to let this go not so long ago, but now World Rugby have come to a decision that you don't agree with then you can't let it go.

At then end of the day Marler was heard making derogatory comments to Samson Lee that were racist in nature. Had it of been a black person receiving the insults we wouldn't be having this discussion. This is purely and simply about your personal views on Travellers.

#Justice 4 Marler

[Nightynight]

The request was for a yes or no,

For the last time. Is it fair for a group who choose not to to be part of a society and not contribute to have same rights as the rest? Yes or no?

YES.

This is actually an irrelevance. Lee participates in society and pays his taxes just like everyone else.

That aside, taking your hypothetical person who chooses not to be part of society and does not contribute. It depends on the sort of society. Ours values the principle of not discriminating on the basis of an individual's characteristics, be they ethnic group, disability, gender, sexual preference, religion and many other traits. So the answer is "yes", unequivocally.

Gypsies are defined in law as an ethnic group. Using the term "Gypsy boy" in a derogatory fashion is in clear breach of both the principles I've outlined and the law itself. Deriding Gypsies in this way and adding the term "boy", which in this context has clear racially motivated connotations is absolutely scandalous and should been met with an immediate and severe punishment. Ultimately, Marler got off lightly, but I suspect that's politics.

Lee didn't have a problem with it remember. And how is it hypothetical question? On that basis parts of the U.K. Should be ruled under shria law as per the local population wishes.

[Nightynight]

Seems to me that some people are confusing the point about the fact that is English law and whether a comment over gypsies should be covered by that same law. 2 very different issues. I might not like the fact that the speed limit in a town centre is 30MPH,if I break it I can expect to be fined etc; my personal opinion is irrelevant.

Likewise, if I don't like the Traveling Community but make discriminatory comments, in public then you can expect legal repercussions. Marley made what is legally a discriminatory comment in his workplace. That is why he was investigated and eventually punished. The key issue that blew this out of all proportion was the lack of process used by the 6N committee.

Arguments over whether e should all consider gypsies to be different or not, or legally protected or not, has no bearing over what happened in that match and subsequently.

Yes it fucking does you moron, you can't have both ways. If you open a debate on a comment, you open the debate on why is it racism.


Maybe some people should wear yellow stars on their jackets, that's the law and shouldn't be questioned

Grow up Nighty! If you aren't prepared to discuss this like an adult and respect peoples' opinions rather than resorting to petty insults then do one!

You accused other people of not being able to let this go not so long ago, but now World Rugby have come to a decision that you don't agree with then you can't let it go.

At then end of the day Marler was heard making derogatory comments to Samson Lee that were racist in nature. Had it of been a black person receiving the insults we wouldn't be having this discussion. This is purely and simply about your personal views on Travellers.

#Justice 4 Marler

Noted you won't answer the question. Done

[UKHamlet]

It doesn't matter whether Lee had a problem with or not, it's against the law of the United Kingdom and against the laws of Rugby. Your other assertion isn't even worth of comment.

[cadofyddol]

It's got nothing to do with Lee, sure he's a good guy. He didn't make an issue out of it, credit to him for it. Shows character to take high road above such petty stuff, in an abusive verbal exchanges you shout 'cnut' at somebody as 'alleged' and the guy abused you back.... What a shocker! At least He's a grown a up.

When did I say Lee started it'? I said that 2 front rows abusing each other at a scrum down was more likely than some racist conspiracy theory that You put up for The defence for marler's comments by others.... Made more common sense to me

...

[Numbers]

There certainly seems to be a great deal of generalisation, whether Romany, New Age, Irish Traveller etc...apparently they are all the same, oh dear.

Should this be moved to the Politics thread as this is really not about Rugby anymore is it.

[Nightynight]

It's got nothing to do with Lee, sure he's a good guy. He didn't make an issue out of it, credit to him for it. Shows character to take high road above such petty stuff, in an abusive verbal exchanges you shout 'cnut' at somebody as 'alleged' and the guy abused you back.... What a shocker! At least He's a grown a up.

When did I say Lee started it'? I said that 2 front rows abusing each other at a scrum down was more likely than some racist conspiracy theory that You put up for The defence for marler's comments by others.... Made more common sense to me

Rubbish, the exchanges had been clearly on the match video had been going on before that, out of context anyway, the point was Lee, I wrote alleged, which you have chosen to ignore, the point of the sentence was Lee was also on involved in some kind of exchange, pathetic to twist without answering the previous question asked

...

[Nightynight]

It doesn't matter whether Lee had a problem with or not, it's against the law of the United Kingdom and against the laws of Rugby. Your other assertion isn't even cworth of comment.

See comment above

[Nightynight]

There certainly seems to be a great deal of generalisation, whether Romany, New Age, Irish Traveller etc...apparently they are all the same, oh dear.

Should this be moved to the Politics thread as this is really not about Rugby anymore is it.

Agreed, maybe hammy should put up a vote, do you think travelers are a race?

[Sandydragon]

There certainly seems to be a great deal of generalisation, whether Romany, New Age, Irish Traveller etc...apparently they are all the same, oh dear.

Should this be moved to the Politics thread as this is really not about Rugby anymore is it.

Agreed, maybe hammy should put up a vote, do you think travelers are a race?

And it would still be as irrelevant given the fact that Gypsies have been victimized for being 'different' throughout history. Do we protect people from discrimination just because there are differences in race? What about homosexuals, or religious groups?

Again, this comes back to you not liking the Gypsy lifestyle and not considering that they are worthy of any protection under law, despite historical evidence that would suggest otherwise. Comparisons with the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany or the implementation of Sharia Law in the UK are just straw men that don't equate to the matter under discussion.

And even then it remains an irrelevance, because the role of the rugby disciplinary committee is to establish if a law has been broken. By rugby's own laws and the law of England and Wales, Marler had committed an offense. A discussion over whether a law should be ignored because we don't agree with it is a nonsense, you can't even claim a moral obligation to disagree with an immoral law. If the 6N Committee were having the same discussions about whether gypsies are a protected group under English Law then Im not surprised that WR decided that their processes had so utterly failed.

[morepork]

Shria law.

Coming to a campground near you.

[cadofyddol]

There certainly seems to be a great deal of generalisation, whether Romany, New Age, Irish Traveller etc...apparently they are all the same, oh dear.

Should this be moved to the Politics thread as this is really not about Rugby anymore is it.

Agreed, maybe hammy should put up a vote, do you think travelers are a race?

So I guess above the Court for the Arbitration of Sport, the Court of European Law and the Governing Body of all Global Issues lies the Universal Consensus of Rugby Rebelers. Hopefully this appeal will finally see Justice 4 Marler.

Maybe World Rugby will overturn their decision on the outcome of the Rugby Rebels vote!

Move on, it's over!

[Numbers]

There certainly seems to be a great deal of generalisation, whether Romany, New Age, Irish Traveller etc...apparently they are all the same, oh dear.

Should this be moved to the Politics thread as this is really not about Rugby anymore is it.

Agreed, maybe hammy should put up a vote, do you think travelers are a race?

So I guess above the Court for the Arbitration of Sport, the Court of European Law and the Governing Body of all Global Issues lies the Universal Consensus of Rugby Rebelers. Hopefully this appeal will finally see Justice 4 Marler.

Maybe World Rugby will overturn their decision on the outcome of the Rugby Rebels vote!

Move on, it's over!

I do hope your not suggesting Nighty lives a nomadic lifestyle

[cadofyddol]

Agreed, maybe hammy should put up a vote, do you think travelers are a race?

So I guess above the Court for the Arbitration of Sport, the Court of European Law and the Governing Body of all Global Issues lies the Universal Consensus of Rugby Rebelers. Hopefully this appeal will finally see Justice 4 Marler.

Maybe World Rugby will overturn their decision on the outcome of the Rugby Rebels vote!

Move on, it's over!

I do hope your not suggesting Nighty lives a nomadic lifestyle

He can bloody well take his litter with him, and while he's at it pay his taxes too!

[Nightynight]

So I guess above the Court for the Arbitration of Sport, the Court of European Law and the Governing Body of all Global Issues lies the Universal Consensus of Rugby Rebelers. Hopefully this appeal will finally see Justice 4 Marler.

Maybe World Rugby will overturn their decision on the outcome of the Rugby Rebels vote!

Move on, it's over!

I do hope your not suggesting Nighty lives a nomadic lifestyle

He can bloody well take his litter with him, and while he's at it pay his taxes too!

Calmn down dear, it's only the Internet

[Nightynight]

By the way, I don't pay taxes, ME don't have any. But maybe you should get out and about a bit more than having spiv holidays in a caravan in north wales or a week in lanzorgrotte. Might broaden your mind a wee bit.

[cadofyddol]

I do hope your not suggesting Nighty lives a nomadic lifestyle

He can bloody well take his litter with him, and while he's at it pay his taxes too!

Calmn down dear, it's only the Internet

I'm glad that there are no hard feelings then. As you say it's only the internet.

[cadofyddol]

By the way, I don't pay taxes, ME don't have any. But maybe you should get out and about a bit more than having spiv holidays in a caravan in north wales or a week in lanzorgrotte. Might broaden your mind a wee bit.

Oh dear. You don't know me from Adam, but are prepared to make wild assumptions. If you did know me you would see just how wide of the mark you were.
Come on Nighty, it's only the internet!

[Ross. S]

[UKHamlet]

There certainly seems to be a great deal of generalisation, whether Romany, New Age, Irish Traveller etc...apparently they are all the same, oh dear.

Should this be moved to the Politics thread as this is really not about Rugby anymore is it.

Agreed, maybe hammy should put up a vote, do you think travelers are a race?

We don't need to, because they're not, but they are an ethnically distinguishable minority and defined as such by law. What you think, what I think and what anyone else on the board thinks is so much hot air, because the law has already decided.

[Spiffy]

There certainly seems to be a great deal of generalisation, whether Romany, New Age, Irish Traveller etc...apparently they are all the same, oh dear.

Should this be moved to the Politics thread as this is really not about Rugby anymore is it.

Agreed, maybe hammy should put up a vote, do you think travelers are a race?

We don't need to, because they're not, but they are an ethnically distinguishable minority and defined as such by law. What you think, what I think and what anyone else on the board thinks is so much hot air, because the law has already decided.

"The law is an ass". (Mr. Bumble - OliverTwist).

[Sandydragon]

There certainly seems to be a great deal of generalisation, whether Romany, New Age, Irish Traveller etc...apparently they are all the same, oh dear.

Should this be moved to the Politics thread as this is really not about Rugby anymore is it.

Agreed, maybe hammy should put up a vote, do you think travelers are a race?

We don't need to, because they're not, but they are an ethnically distinguishable minority and defined as such by law. What you think, what I think and what anyone else on the board thinks is so much hot air, because the law has already decided.

Exactly, and it's not for the 6 nations disciplinary panel to judge whether the term used was in breach of any legislation or not, not when such a law exists.

If this was an immoral law, then I'd understand someone taking a stand. But it's the complete opposite.