England v Barbarians

[Epaminondas Pules]

If you are going to be a one trick pony, scoring tries is a pretty good trick.

True, is it enough? Or does his lack of other tricks and divisive character count more.

I’d hate to see him in an England shirt again. I see no value in it to our growth.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Cold light of day, Daly is class, Ford played well, Launchbury was busy, Curry very good and Mercer played well (no idea why he was taken off). Francis showed some class.

And Robshaw was horrific! Truly terrible. Like another level of shite altogether.

Ford and Francis were 2 of the main reasons we lost yesterday, their channel in defence was laughable. Francis had a couple of nice moments but the damage was done. We had pretty even possession and territory stats yet Ford as usual did nothing to manage the game in our favor.

We got busted out wide as well as down the middle. Defensively we were weak across the board.

Ford had a good game yesterday. What do you think he did badly?

[Puja]

Cold light of day, Daly is class, Ford played well, Launchbury was busy, Curry very good and Mercer played well (no idea why he was taken off). Francis showed some class.

And Robshaw was horrific! Truly terrible. Like another level of shite altogether.

Ford and Francis were 2 of the main reasons we lost yesterday, their channel in defence was laughable. Francis had a couple of nice moments but the damage was done. We had pretty even possession and territory stats yet Ford as usual did nothing to manage the game in our favor.

What exactly would you have liked Ford to have done to "manage the game in our favour"? He seems an odd person to blame, considering he didn't make a single pass that put anyone in trouble, opened a lot of holes for people, and made some good tactical kicks.

I think there's a bit of an overreaction to the game - no matter how seriously England were supposed to be taking it, they'd still have in their heads that it was a BaaBaas game. We should have played our usual shadow side and given a lot of players a rest, rather than trying to treat it as a test match, which it patently wasn't. It wasn't great, and some players have put their places in serious jeopardy with their performances, but I don't think it should be taken too seriously.

Although we should probably be looking to replace our defensive coach.

Puja

[pandion]

Cold light of day, Daly is class, Ford played well, Launchbury was busy, Curry very good and Mercer played well (no idea why he was taken off). Francis showed some class.

And Robshaw was horrific! Truly terrible. Like another level of shite altogether.

Ford and Francis were 2 of the main reasons we lost yesterday, their channel in defence was laughable. Francis had a couple of nice moments but the damage was done. We had pretty even possession and territory stats yet Ford as usual did nothing to manage the game in our favor.

We got busted out wide as well as down the middle. Defensively we were weak across the board.

Ford had a good game yesterday. What do you think he did badly?

He missed alot of tackles along with Francis and Robshaw. Yes he was committed and caught a knackered Ashton but he's just not physical enough for international rugby. He's a poor manager of a game unless on the front foot with no pressure. Who decided to kick for goal, Him or Robshaw? Why didn't we slow the game down and play more territory. We stole 3 lineouts yet our kicking game was non existent to capitalise on that pressure. He always escapes criticism because he has nice touches but I believe Farrell would have handled yesterday a lot better and probably Cips too.

[pandion]

Cold light of day, Daly is class, Ford played well, Launchbury was busy, Curry very good and Mercer played well (no idea why he was taken off). Francis showed some class.

And Robshaw was horrific! Truly terrible. Like another level of shite altogether.

Ford and Francis were 2 of the main reasons we lost yesterday, their channel in defence was laughable. Francis had a couple of nice moments but the damage was done. We had pretty even possession and territory stats yet Ford as usual did nothing to manage the game in our favor.

What exactly would you have liked Ford to have done to "manage the game in our favour"? He seems an odd person to blame, considering he didn't make a single pass that put anyone in trouble, opened a lot of holes for people, and made some good tactical kicks.

I think there's a bit of an overreaction to the game - no matter how seriously England were supposed to be taking it, they'd still have in their heads that it was a BaaBaas game. We should have played our usual shadow side and given a lot of players a rest, rather than trying to treat it as a test match, which it patently wasn't. It wasn't great, and some players have put their places in serious jeopardy with their performances, but I don't think it should be taken too seriously.

Although we should probably be looking to replace our defensive coach.

Puja

Yeah lol Gustard can't be happy. He's either partly to blame for the quins guys selection or wondering if he's made the right career choice.

[Timbo]

If you are going to be a one trick pony, scoring tries is a pretty good trick.

True, is it enough? Or does his lack of other tricks and divisive character count more.

I’d hate to see him in an England shirt again. I see no value in it to our growth.

Also, it’s not like the wingers we have been using over the last few seasons don’t score try’s. May, Nowell, Watson, Daly, Yarde...even Solomona all have good test strike rates.

[Digby]

Some nice skills from the BaaBaas at times, but surely the bigger thing was they were bigger and more powerful than England? And would those who've wanted to see Daly at centre have any new thoughts about that?

[Epaminondas Pules]

Ford and Francis were 2 of the main reasons we lost yesterday, their channel in defence was laughable. Francis had a couple of nice moments but the damage was done. We had pretty even possession and territory stats yet Ford as usual did nothing to manage the game in our favor.

We got busted out wide as well as down the middle. Defensively we were weak across the board.

Ford had a good game yesterday. What do you think he did badly?

He missed alot of tackles along with Francis and Robshaw. Yes he was committed and caught a knackered Ashton but he's just not physical enough for international rugby. He's a poor manager of a game unless on the front foot with no pressure. Who decided to kick for goal, Him or Robshaw? Why didn't we slow the game down and play more territory. We stole 3 lineouts yet our kicking game was non existent to capitalise on that pressure. He always escapes criticism because he has nice touches but I believe Farrell would have handled yesterday a lot better and probably Cips too.

Interesting. You know he tracked Ashton down on 9 minutes. Was he really knackered already?

[Epaminondas Pules]

Just watching again. First try Robshaw is wholly to blame for a shocking missed tackle. Second try is a miss by Francis AND a miss by Robshaw, both of which are terribly misses. Third try initially Trinder gets done on the outside my Matevesi for the break. Then credit to Russell for the chip over the defence.

21 points down to 4 very simple missed tackles, two by Robshaw. Two breaks are in the wide channel, 1 down the blindside.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Launchbury wins breakdown penalty, but we then get turned over off the maul. But then win penalty off the resulting scrum and ultimately Daly scores as we go wide. Ford’s pass to May and his step creates the chance, but it’s a cracking physical finish by Daly.

Then Ford put Singleton into a beautiful gap (nice line too!) and he puts Francis away and we get a glimpse of Ashton’s world renowned defence as Francis scores.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Ashton then puts in one of the greatest passes of all time into the Twickenham turf and Curry wins us a breakdown penalty from the resulting play. Robshaw claps, which is probably his best involvement in the first 23 minutes. Attack looks promising until Stooke gives away a stupid penalty for entry into the ruck.

Robshaw then gives away a holding on penalty after making no yards and getting isolated. And then in a resulting play completely misses Russell. Shit me he’s having an awful game. Brown makes the tackle but he offloads and Ashton is in again.

25 minutes, 4 tried conceded, 3 down to wide defence, and three down to Robshaw missing basic tackles.

[Digby]

If it's true in the 6N Eddie was having the players beasted in training what does he do heading to SA? He's got what 5 or 6 six sessions tops with a bunch of players who look tired yesterday and a bunch of player who'll be sore from the AP final, so does he stick them at the side of the pool with some mojitos, or hand them over to Gustard and Co. and run the legs off them?

[Raggs]

Andy Goode saw a training session before the AP final, and the England boys were apparently being beasted (though his standard may be low).

[Epaminondas Pules]

Cipriani on Trinder. Francis claims the restart brilliantly. Couple of passes then Daly cuts the BaaBaas to ribbons and put a supporting Mercer in for a try. Outstanding from Daly!!

We win BaaBaa lineout and then Daly puts a nice kick in behind for May to chase, but we turn the ball over. BaaBaas try a chip which goes wrong and after some lovely footwork Ford puts Francis into the gap to score. Another lovely line.

[Epaminondas Pules]

May gives a hilarious side entry penalty. BaaBaas fuck up he lineout and we win another scrum penalty from the resulting scrum. Then we fuck up the lineout. Then Brown goes off his feet and gives a penalty away. Matevesi runs at Ford and Curry, gets tackled and Curry turns it over. We break wide but the Vito intercepts. BaaBaas then score their 5th after opening up a gap in the 10-12 channel, Ashton goes through and puts Russell in.

[Puja]

Ford and Francis were 2 of the main reasons we lost yesterday, their channel in defence was laughable. Francis had a couple of nice moments but the damage was done. We had pretty even possession and territory stats yet Ford as usual did nothing to manage the game in our favor.

We got busted out wide as well as down the middle. Defensively we were weak across the board.

Ford had a good game yesterday. What do you think he did badly?

He missed alot of tackles along with Francis and Robshaw [1]. Yes he was committed and caught a knackered Ashton but he's just not physical enough for international rugby. He's a poor manager of a game unless on the front foot with no pressure [2]. Who decided to kick for goal, Him or Robshaw? Why didn't we slow the game down and play more territory [3]. We stole 3 lineouts yet our kicking game was non existent to capitalise on that pressure. He always escapes criticism because he has nice touches [4] but I believe Farrell would have handled yesterday a lot better and probably Cips too.

1. Citation needed. Got any stats or does it just *feel* like he missed tackles? Cause I don't remember one.

2. So we had massive advantages in territory and possession, but Ford didn't manage the game well?

3. It is a Barbarians game - there is a certain ethos to it. Yes, we could've played against that and been horribly pragmatic, but I'm kinda glad we didn't.

4. We scored 6 tries and I believe Ford was instrumental in 5 of them. That's a little more than "some nice touches".

Most of their tries and pressure came from long range breaks through very sloppy defence and individual missed tackles, none of which came from Ford. Why is this game his fault?

Puja

[twitchy]

Some nice skills from the BaaBaas at times, but surely the bigger thing was they were bigger and more powerful than England? And would those who've wanted to see Daly at centre have any new thoughts about that?

That completely embarrassed us at times. It looked like a load of pro players vs amateurs.

[Mellsblue]

We got busted out wide as well as down the middle. Defensively we were weak across the board.

Ford had a good game yesterday. What do you think he did badly?

He missed alot of tackles along with Francis and Robshaw [1]. Yes he was committed and caught a knackered Ashton but he's just not physical enough for international rugby. He's a poor manager of a game unless on the front foot with no pressure [2]. Who decided to kick for goal, Him or Robshaw? Why didn't we slow the game down and play more territory [3]. We stole 3 lineouts yet our kicking game was non existent to capitalise on that pressure. He always escapes criticism because he has nice touches [4] but I believe Farrell would have handled yesterday a lot better and probably Cips too.

1. Citation needed. Got any stats or does it just *feel* like he missed tackles? Cause I don't remember one.

2. So we had massive advantages in territory and possession, but Ford didn't manage the game well?

3. It is a Barbarians game - there is a certain ethos to it. Yes, we could've played against that and been horribly pragmatic, but I'm kinda glad we didn't.

4. We scored 6 tries and I believe Ford was instrumental in 5 of them. That's a little more than "some nice touches".

Most of their tries and pressure came from long range breaks through very sloppy defence and individual missed tackles, none of which came from Ford. Why is this game his fault?

Puja

1. He's only 5'1'' and 9 stone he must've missed loads. Don't forget he only chased down Ashton in the 9th minute because Ashton was tired.

2. Stats. Pah!

3. It was must win crunch game. It is the baabaas, after all. At no point was it about running moves and scenarios for some actual test matches in a few weeks. Plus, we stole some lineouts so all other forms of attack are off the table.

4. Farrell would definitely have done so much better on the back foot, as he does in a weak bottom of the table Saracens team. I mean look at the France game when we just about had parity up front and Farrell was rank average to po.....ah, no, hang on a minute.

[Mellsblue]

Just watching again. First try Robshaw is wholly to blame for a shocking missed tackle.

I'm not trying to defend the shirehorse, to use S Barnes's description, he was poor and I called him on here at the time, but do you think Trinder became too disconnected for the first one? Also, was he not stationed wider than usual and therefore more exposed?
Either way, he looks in desperate need of a rest. Unsurprisingly. If its a case that his legs have gone permanently, rather than just temporarily from a hard season, then he's done as a test player.
His lack of dynamism in comparison to Wilson, who was impressive, was stark.

[Scrumhead]

100% agree. Robshaw never had pace, but yesterday he looked like he was running in treacle. Wilson (who is not fast) looked like greased lightning in comparison.

[pandion]

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Hope this comes up. Not sure how to post pics

[pandion]

And no

[Digby]

Some nice skills from the BaaBaas at times, but surely the bigger thing was they were bigger and more powerful than England? And would those who've wanted to see Daly at centre have any new thoughts about that?

That completely embarrassed us at times. It looked like a load of pro players vs amateurs.

The England team as selected was clearly not a powerful one, and yet nothing in the tactics seemed to allow for that

[Banquo]

We got busted out wide as well as down the middle. Defensively we were weak across the board.

Ford had a good game yesterday. What do you think he did badly?

He missed alot of tackles along with Francis and Robshaw [1]. Yes he was committed and caught a knackered Ashton but he's just not physical enough for international rugby. He's a poor manager of a game unless on the front foot with no pressure [2]. Who decided to kick for goal, Him or Robshaw? Why didn't we slow the game down and play more territory [3]. We stole 3 lineouts yet our kicking game was non existent to capitalise on that pressure. He always escapes criticism because he has nice touches [4] but I believe Farrell would have handled yesterday a lot better and probably Cips too.

1. Citation needed. Got any stats or does it just *feel* like he missed tackles? Cause I don't remember one.

2. So we had massive advantages in territory and possession, but Ford didn't manage the game well?

3. It is a Barbarians game - there is a certain ethos to it. Yes, we could've played against that and been horribly pragmatic, but I'm kinda glad we didn't.

4. We scored 6 tries and I believe Ford was instrumental in 5 of them. That's a little more than "some nice touches".

Most of their tries and pressure came from long range breaks through very sloppy defence and individual missed tackles, none of which came from Ford. Why is this game his fault?

Puja

Unfortunately for your argument, the stats are ugly. But blaming the 10 for his side being shredded physically is a push.

[Mellsblue]

And no

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