England to part ways with long time U18 coaches.

[Tigersman]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/exclusiv ... aching-set

Flecther and Walton off.

Both done some great work, BUT IMO have made some really odd calls recently.
Last team had
7 Sale Sharks
6 Newcastle Falcons
Yet only had two players from a Tigers squad that walked the league (Yes i might be biased here but point still stands).

The team ended up getting thrashed in the U18 six nations thing this season which might have but the nail in the coffin.

[Puja]

That's a shame given the great work they've done over the years, although you're right in saying that last season was far from their finest.

I am concerned about who we're going to get in to replace them, given some of our history with age-grade coaches. Hopefully the name Jon Callard will not be mentioned in dispatches.

Puja

[Tigersman]

Wasn't Ryan the one who got rid of Callard?

[fivepointer]

Some poor results this season but their overall record is very impressive. Our U18's have had some exceptional results in the last few years and the player development has been terrific.

[Puja]

Some poor results this season but their overall record is very impressive. Our U18's have had some exceptional results in the last few years and the player development has been terrific.

Indeed. I hope this move isn't about last year's results or just because Ryan wants to put his stamp on things, but is part of a greater plan. And also I hope that both get employment offers from Leicester.

Puja

[Tigersman]

Don't Tigers will go for them, we have already had massive changes in our Academy system and it's finally getting results.
Pinched the former Sale Sharks academy Manager
Coaches of Allen, Blaze, Stankovich and Deacon
Just signed the head of Midlands hurricanes Rugby League set-up as well.

I mean coaching the English U18's on a whole must be pretty eas, all our players trained pretty much professionally with prem cups who are funded by RFU.

[Epaminondas Pules]

That’s a shocking call! It’s not about results at his level but about giving players the space to express themselves. Two better coaches you are unlikely to meet at this level! Wow this is a terrible decision on the face of it! I, and most who follow age grade rugby are genuinely shocked! It is hard to express what Fletch and Walts have given English rugby! Outstanding coaches!!!

[Puja]

Don't Tigers will go for them, we have already had massive changes in our Academy system and it's finally getting results.
Pinched the former Sale Sharks academy Manager
Coaches of Allen, Blaze, Stankovich and Deacon
Just signed the head of Midlands hurricanes Rugby League set-up as well.

I mean coaching the English U18's on a whole must be pretty eas, all our players trained pretty much professionally with prem cups who are funded by RFU.

Yeah, I don't care who we have, if Fletcher and Walton are available, they're likely an upgrade.

Basically, they don't just manage the U18s side for international games, they're involved in player development, they go into schools, they're getting a culture in. Name an English starlet of the past 5-6 years and they'll sing those two's praises.

Frankly, the more I think about this, the more it seems like a horrible error, 2018's results be damned.

Puja

[Banquo]

That’s a shocking call! It’s not about results at his level but about giving players the space to express themselves. Two better coaches you are unlikely to meet at this level! Wow this is a terrible decision on the face of it! I, and most who follow age grade rugby are genuinely shocked! It is hard to express what Fletch and Walts have given English rugby! Outstanding coaches!!!

Hear hear. As I've said, I know the dad of a lad who has been through their hand- he really knows his onions/coaches, and says they are the best he's ever seen, On the face of it, a shocker. It may be they have just got stale or bored and want summat else.

as you were, just read the article...ludicrous by Ryan. One assume his bonus depends on results.

[Epaminondas Pules]

That’s a shocking call! It’s not about results at his level but about giving players the space to express themselves. Two better coaches you are unlikely to meet at this level! Wow this is a terrible decision on the face of it! I, and most who follow age grade rugby are genuinely shocked! It is hard to express what Fletch and Walts have given English rugby! Outstanding coaches!!!

Hear hear. As I've said, I know the dad of a lad who has been through their hand- he really knows his onions/coaches, and says they are the best he's ever seen, On the face of it, a shocker. It may be they have just got stale or bored and want summat else.

as you were, just read the article...ludicrous by Ryan. One assume his bonus depends on results.

I truly hope they have become stale, though my guess is not. My guess is it’s Ryan being Ryan to the detriment of English rugby. What Fletch and Walts also did was bring on other coaches. A truly outstanding pair.

I’m so pissed off!!!!

[Puja]

A touch more detail here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... n-release/

Also some artices which popped up when I googled John Fletcher:
Wilkinson names him as one of the best coaches he's played under: http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/eng ... ches-21152
Details of what the U18s camps were like: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41778069

Players that have come through Fletcher's U18s side to full England caps:
Manu Tuilagi, Owen Farrell, Joe Marler, Jonathan Joseph, Mako Vunipola, Freddie Burns, Matt Kvesic, Christian Wade, Billy Vunipola, Henry Thomas, Marland Yarde, Jack Nowell, George Ford, Anthony Watson, Henry Slade, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jamie George, Jack Clifford, Paul Hill, Maro Itoje, Elliot Daly, Ellis Genge, Kyle Sinckler, Charlie Ewels, Tom Curry, Jack Maunder, Nick Isiekwe, Sam Underhill

Players that came through the Newcastle academy while Fletcher was running it (off the top of my head):
Jonny Wilkinson, Mathew Tait, Toby Flood, Tom May, Jamie Noon, Geoff Parling, Davey Wilson, Dave Walder, Mickey Young, Phil Dowson, Lee Dickson

Puja

[fivepointer]

Its not clear why they've been let go. It cannot be performance related, as the number of players they have nurtured is incredibly impressive.
It is very odd indeed.

[Banquo]

Its not clear why they've been let go. It cannot be performance related, as the number of players they have nurtured is incredibly impressive.
It is very odd indeed.

It could however be results (as in the actual results of the team) related to Ryan's pay- I'm totally guessing though.

[Tigersman]

Although I'm not sure it will happen I do hope for a big overhaul in English age grade rugby, really up to 23's needs re-doing I just don't think we make the most of out resources.

Would like to see more focus on grassroot clubs than Private Schools.
Personally I'm also glad U16 team was scrapped.




Apparently RFU having financial difficulties which might be the reason.

[Banquo]

Although I'm not sure it will happen I do hope for a big overhaul in English age grade rugby, really up to 23's needs re-doing I just don't think we make the most of out resources.

Would like to see more focus on grassroot clubs than Private Schools.
Personally I'm also glad U16 team was scrapped.




Apparently RFU having financial difficulties which might be the reason.

I reckon we produce a very good pipeline of talent now, but could always get more into the system- I think there is still a lot of great grassroots stuff going in. The bigger issue for me is what happens to the talent once they get near AP clubs and their academies- sweeping statement I know, but the continuum from say 18 has been problematic for ages now, although improving slowly.

[Mellsblue]

Yep. The route from age grade to 1st XV, other than the very best, would seem to be the big issue. Obviously, PRL sorted that with the new and improved A league.....

[Stom]

Although I'm not sure it will happen I do hope for a big overhaul in English age grade rugby, really up to 23's needs re-doing I just don't think we make the most of out resources.

Would like to see more focus on grassroot clubs than Private Schools.
Personally I'm also glad U16 team was scrapped.




Apparently RFU having financial difficulties which might be the reason.

I reckon we produce a very good pipeline of talent now, but could always get more into the system- I think there is still a lot of great grassroots stuff going in. The bigger issue for me is what happens to the talent once they get near AP clubs and their academies- sweeping statement I know, but the continuum from say 18 has been problematic for ages now, although improving slowly.

Unfortunately, that's down to the individual club, though, no? I mean, Quins have been pretty good at bringing the youth through, either to first XV level or giving them options so they can drop down a level.

We're nowhere near the situation in football, like at Chelsea or Man City...

[Banquo]

Although I'm not sure it will happen I do hope for a big overhaul in English age grade rugby, really up to 23's needs re-doing I just don't think we make the most of out resources.

Would like to see more focus on grassroot clubs than Private Schools.
Personally I'm also glad U16 team was scrapped.




Apparently RFU having financial difficulties which might be the reason.

I reckon we produce a very good pipeline of talent now, but could always get more into the system- I think there is still a lot of great grassroots stuff going in. The bigger issue for me is what happens to the talent once they get near AP clubs and their academies- sweeping statement I know, but the continuum from say 18 has been problematic for ages now, although improving slowly.

Unfortunately, that's down to the individual club, though, no? I mean, Quins have been pretty good at bringing the youth through, either to first XV level or giving them options so they can drop down a level.

We're nowhere near the situation in football, like at Chelsea or Man City...

Yes, hence acknowledging it as a sweeping statement, not wanting to abuse individual clubs like Tigers . Though I'm buggered if I know how the clubs who are less good at this can't see the benefits of developing own talent, ditto soccer tbh, though that's a ship that long sailed and almost irrelevent comparison, save as illustration or opportunity.

[Tigersman]

The U20 to Prem does need to be looked at, but I'm not criticising the pathway I'm criticising how the initial players are scouted on the whole, Union does IMO limit itself to mainly certain schools, and it's a problem throughout the Prem and England setup IMO.

[Puja]

The U20 to Prem does need to be looked at, but I'm not criticising the pathway I'm criticising how the initial players are scouted on the whole, Union does IMO limit itself to mainly certain schools, and it's a problem throughout the Prem and England setup IMO.

Mind, those schools have normally done a reasonably good job of scouring the countryside for promising youth and offering them a scholarship to come play rugby for them. So while the majority of the age groups play for certain schools, I'm not sure how many of them joined in year 11 and pay their own way.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Let’s not start this one again.

[Banquo]

The U20 to Prem does need to be looked at, but I'm not criticising the pathway I'm criticising how the initial players are scouted on the whole, Union does IMO limit itself to mainly certain schools, and it's a problem throughout the Prem and England setup IMO.

It's an opportunity, rather than a problem per se, when we have loads of talent that isn't fully used/used properly by AP clubs.

Its also an interesting perspective- where I grew up, rugby was and still is a big sport in both state and private schools, and has very active grassroots club activity to supplement it. The selection system looked at all comers. Mind, back then they used to run u19 schools and colts teams, the colts teams for those whose school didnt play rugby. Looking at the last u16 team, quite a mix in there.

[Epaminondas Pules]

There’s more starting to creep out on this now. Looks like Fletch publicaly disagreed with Ryan over strategy and approach. Something you just don’t do.

[Epaminondas Pules]

There’s more starting to creep out on this now. Looks like Fletch publicaly disagreed with Ryan over strategy and approach. Something you just don’t do.

Just how has this been allowed to happen???

44FF588F-0D16-4793-B5B6-32E7E78D8282.jpeg

[Banquo]

There’s more starting to creep out on this now. Looks like Fletch publicaly disagreed with Ryan over strategy and approach. Something you just don’t do.

Just how has this been allowed to happen???

44FF588F-0D16-4793-B5B6-32E7E78D8282.jpeg

Everyone says the same. Its a shame Rob Andrew wasn't around to protect them