Second Test

[Oakboy]

The senior players have taken responsibility and all will be ok.

Frankly, they could not do any worse if they took over from the coach. However, the mind boggles that their input was not encouraged anyway. It's supposed to be a team effort.

I repeat (yet again, yawn!) what Mike Davis used to say. Training should spend a lot of time on practising response to cock-ups.

Why aren't/weren't the senior players prepared for every eventuality?

[Renniks]

The senior players have taken responsibility and all will be ok.

Frankly, they could not do any worse if they took over from the coach. However, the mind boggles that their input was not encouraged anyway. It's supposed to be a team effort.

I repeat (yet again, yawn!) what Mike Davis used to say. Training should spend a lot of time on practising response to cock-ups.

Why aren't/weren't the senior players prepared for every eventuality?

Because they're not smart players.

It took this side how many minutes to solve the Italy breakdown fiasco? And, the player who managed to unlock it quickest and best was the one player we all agree was missing last week (Launchbury)

[Banquo]

The senior players have taken responsibility and all will be ok.

Frankly, they could not do any worse if they took over from the coach. However, the mind boggles that their input was not encouraged anyway. It's supposed to be a team effort.

I repeat (yet again, yawn!) what Mike Davis used to say. Training should spend a lot of time on practising response to cock-ups.

Why aren't/weren't the senior players prepared for every eventuality?

Because they're not smart players.

It took this side how many minutes to solve the Italy breakdown fiasco? And, the player who managed to unlock it quickest and best was the one player we all agree was missing last week (Launchbury)

I think its a combination of not being rugby smart and over preparation/coaching, ironically.

[fivepointer]

There is a lack of thinking on their feet and, dare i say, leadership?
Watch Brad Shields quickly establish himself as England's 6 and then the captaincy.......

[Raggs]

The senior players have taken responsibility and all will be ok.

Frankly, they could not do any worse if they took over from the coach. However, the mind boggles that their input was not encouraged anyway. It's supposed to be a team effort.

I repeat (yet again, yawn!) what Mike Davis used to say. Training should spend a lot of time on practising response to cock-ups.

Why aren't/weren't the senior players prepared for every eventuality?

Because they're not smart players.

It took this side how many minutes to solve the Italy breakdown fiasco? And, the player who managed to unlock it quickest and best was the one player we all agree was missing last week (Launchbury)

About 8 minutes from when Italy started doing it repeatedly around the 12th minute. At about the 20th we went pick and goes and one out at pace, stressed their defence immensely, forced them to commit and butchered a try on the right with amazingly poor skills.

[Banquo]

There is a lack of thinking on their feet and, dare i say, leadership?
Watch Brad Shields quickly establish himself as England's 6 and then the captaincy.......

Possibly, though he never gave the impression of cerebral ability in Super Rugby. Be interested to see what his fundamentals look like playing at 6.

[twitchy]

With willis essentially out of the world cup and robshaw looking shot he seems to have come in at the perfect time. I say this having not really seen much of him just based on reputation.

[morepork]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

[Mikey Brown]

Well apparently he’s played rugby at a level that’s even higher than normal rugby, known as super rugby. You needn’t be surprised at all.

[twitchy]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

I don't know what's happened to robshaw honestly. He's only 31 (I think) so while not young you don't expect him to just fall apart like he has. Every ones body is different though it could possibly be it for him which is really sad but there you go.

Maybe he should have had the summer off and come back with a new quins coaching setup.

[Puja]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

One argument says that he's coming in a very weak position for us, where the incumbent is knackered, out of form, and needs a rest. The other says that since he has played rugby in the southern hemisphere, he is innately superior to anything from the Premiership and thus will be picked regardless of any secondary considerations like form or skills. C.f. Nathan Earle, Piers Francis.

Puja

[Puja]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

I don't know what's happened to robshaw honestly. He's only 31 (I think) so while not young you don't expect him to just fall apart like he has. Every ones body is different though it could possibly be it for him which is really sad but there you go.

Maybe he should have had the summer off and come back with a new quins coaching setup.

He's been played every game for Quins in a rubbish season, under rubbish coaches, and for at least half of that season, he was one of the only Quins working his nads off. Plus he got a fun trip away with England to be beasted, played out of position, required to try and do the work of two flankers, and lose some more.

I'm not surprised he's knackered and dispirited. He should never have toured in the first place.

Puja

[twitchy]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

One argument says that he's coming in a very weak position for us, where the incumbent is knackered, out of form, and needs a rest. The other says that since he has played rugby in the southern hemisphere, he is innately superior to anything from the Premiership and thus will be picked regardless of any secondary considerations like form or skills. C.f. Nathan Earle, Piers Francis.

Puja

While again saying I haven't seen a huge amount of him due to not having sky. None of the players you mention (including the tigers 7) had any real momentum for an england spot outside of maybe one article by some one filling column inches. Shields seems to have genuine pedigree, not just "he played in NZ".

[twitchy]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

I don't know what's happened to robshaw honestly. He's only 31 (I think) so while not young you don't expect him to just fall apart like he has. Every ones body is different though it could possibly be it for him which is really sad but there you go.

Maybe he should have had the summer off and come back with a new quins coaching setup.

He's been played every game for Quins in a rubbish season, under rubbish coaches, and for at least half of that season, he was one of the only Quins working his nads off. Plus he got a fun trip away with England to be beasted, played out of position, required to try and do the work of two flankers, and lose some more.

I'm not surprised he's knackered and dispirited. He should never have toured in the first place.

Puja

We said this a few weeks ago but this tour has just been not needed what so ever. Our players desperately needed the rest instead of being beaten up by the resurgent boks.

[Raggs]

I reckon Eddie would have been almost as happy with just having 4-5 weeks with the players doing training, no matches needed .

[Banquo]

I reckon Eddie would have been almost as happy with just having 4-5 weeks with the players doing training, no matches needed .

for sure, as would I/

[Banquo]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

I don't know what's happened to robshaw honestly. He's only 31 (I think) so while not young you don't expect him to just fall apart like he has. Every ones body is different though it could possibly be it for him which is really sad but there you go.

Maybe he should have had the summer off and come back with a new quins coaching setup.

really? He's played a colossal amount of rugby in his career, and he's spent most of this season in a losing cause.

[twitchy]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

I don't know what's happened to robshaw honestly. He's only 31 (I think) so while not young you don't expect him to just fall apart like he has. Every ones body is different though it could possibly be it for him which is really sad but there you go.

Maybe he should have had the summer off and come back with a new quins coaching setup.

really? He's played a colossal amount of rugby in his career, and he's spent most of this season in a losing cause.

For sure.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I’m more shocked at anyone who is actually surprised Robshaw is fucked. I remember him being absolutely fucking shagged in the build up to 15’. Then he maybe... I think (?) got a break at some point? But I can’t quite remember. Pretty much flogged solidly since then.

Again, being the senior player, former captain, stalwart of a club side in total freefall and trying to hold it together can not be easy. He’s the guy who goes and goes, well beyond his capacity as a player. That’s where he is right now. Surprisingly enough that’s not enough to cut it for a series away in SA. Jesus I’m so fucking wound up after typing all that. Fuck off Eddie you stumpy little bastard.

[morepork]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

One argument says that he's coming in a very weak position for us, where the incumbent is knackered, out of form, and needs a rest. The other says that since he has played rugby in the southern hemisphere, he is innately superior to anything from the Premiership and thus will be picked regardless of any secondary considerations like form or skills. C.f. Nathan Earle, Piers Francis.

Puja

Haskell spent a season with the Highlanders a few years back. I appreciate your cynicism though.

[morepork]

I can't believe he has been slotted into the side so quickly. Insane.

One argument says that he's coming in a very weak position for us, where the incumbent is knackered, out of form, and needs a rest. The other says that since he has played rugby in the southern hemisphere, he is innately superior to anything from the Premiership and thus will be picked regardless of any secondary considerations like form or skills. C.f. Nathan Earle, Piers Francis.

Puja

While again saying I haven't seen a huge amount of him due to not having sky. None of the players you mention (including the tigers 7) had any real momentum for an england spot outside of maybe one article by some one filling column inches. Shields seems to have genuine pedigree, not just "he played in NZ".

He sort of does but competition for the black 6 shirt is fierce. We have Squire, Fifita, Taufua, any number of Whitelocks, all of whom compliment Read and Cane. They are all judged against the immense contribution of Kaino with respect to balancing the back row. No.8 is our weak point in depth, and Shields just doesn't fit the bill. England seem to want three back rowers that are primarily big and damaging in close quarters.

[Banquo]

Yeah I’m more shocked at anyone who is actually surprised Robshaw is fucked. I remember him being absolutely fucking shagged in the build up to 15’. Then he maybe... I think (?) got a break at some point? But I can’t quite remember. Pretty much flogged solidly since then.

Again, being the senior player, former captain, stalwart of a club side in total freefall and trying to hold it together can not be easy. He’s the guy who goes and goes, well beyond his capacity as a player. That’s where he is right now. Surprisingly enough that’s not enough to cut it for a series away in SA. Jesus I’m so fucking wound up after typing all that. Fuck off Eddie you stumpy little bastard.

He was injured and out for a period, but pretty much solid rugby all his career, and certainly the last 7 years....further, he nearly always plays 80.

He was one player amongst a few over 30's I was really surprised Eddie hitched his wagon too for the World Cup-- he was always likely to hit a wall with his age and mileage.

[Peat]

The senior players have taken responsibility and all will be ok.

Frankly, they could not do any worse if they took over from the coach. However, the mind boggles that their input was not encouraged anyway. It's supposed to be a team effort.

I repeat (yet again, yawn!) what Mike Davis used to say. Training should spend a lot of time on practising response to cock-ups.

Why aren't/weren't the senior players prepared for every eventuality?

Because they're not smart players.

It took this side how many minutes to solve the Italy breakdown fiasco? And, the player who managed to unlock it quickest and best was the one player we all agree was missing last week (Launchbury)

Remember how they ballsed up their 3 points vs lineout decisions in the 2015 World Cup? I remember being pretty mad at Lancaster for not making sure they knew. In retrospect, I might owe him a few apologies..

[Digby]

Frankly, they could not do any worse if they took over from the coach. However, the mind boggles that their input was not encouraged anyway. It's supposed to be a team effort.

I repeat (yet again, yawn!) what Mike Davis used to say. Training should spend a lot of time on practising response to cock-ups.

Why aren't/weren't the senior players prepared for every eventuality?

Because they're not smart players.

It took this side how many minutes to solve the Italy breakdown fiasco? And, the player who managed to unlock it quickest and best was the one player we all agree was missing last week (Launchbury)

About 8 minutes from when Italy started doing it repeatedly around the 12th minute. At about the 20th we went pick and goes and one out at pace, stressed their defence immensely, forced them to commit and butchered a try on the right with amazingly poor skills.

Though they didn't sustain that, they kept going back to their shape and not playing what was in front of them

[Galfon]

Well that's better from the 6N crew darn sarf..
Ita pip Jap, as do Ire in Oz , Fra don't get a pasting from the AB's...(win the 2nd half in fact.)
Eng. following this up would make things a bit more ok.