Second Test

[Mellsblue]

Would Slade even be playing if Joseph/Teo/Tuilagi we’re available? I doubt it.
For me, asking if Slade is the issue is focussing in the wrong centre.

[pandion]

I dont think the balance is right at centre but right now i wouldnt regard this as one of our major issues.

There just seems to be a lack of clear thinking in so much of what we do. We lose shape too easily, get flustered, concede easy yards and give away possession far too easily. Some of our play is just so naive, lacking patience with mistake compounding mistake.

Its plainly not just a personnel issue: there is something fundamentally askew in how we are being selected and set up to play.

I would. You can send any runner who is even approaching being effective down our 10, 12 and 13 and make a good amount of metres. Coupling that with our back three that arent great under the high ball in recent times and its not a great recipe.

+ the forwards are braindead at the moment

True our midfield is a joke unless it's in total control of the game. I don't think we can sort out our issues without changes in the pack and backs to be honest. Probably a change in tactics too.

[Puja]

the 6N WAS a disaster.

Who said it wasn’t?

Our illustrious moderator, for one!

Oi! I said it was a disaster, but it was just a blip and there was no cause for doom and gloom. Not that I was any more right for saying that, but I want you to quote my mistakes correctly please!

Puja

[Oakboy]

Who said it wasn’t?

Our illustrious moderator, for one!

Oi! I said it was a disaster, but it was just a blip and there was no cause for doom and gloom. Not that I was any more right for saying that, but I want you to quote my mistakes correctly please!

Puja

Oops, sorry! i know I'm thick but is there a substantial difference between 'disaster' and 'doom and gloom' when we are talking about Jones's management of a team in decline? Blip?

[Puja]

Our illustrious moderator, for one!

Oi! I said it was a disaster, but it was just a blip and there was no cause for doom and gloom. Not that I was any more right for saying that, but I want you to quote my mistakes correctly please!

Puja

Oops, sorry! i know I'm thick but is there a substantial difference between 'disaster' and 'doom and gloom' when we are talking about Jones's management of a team in decline? Blip?

I was under the impression that we would actually work on our issues and get better, although I'm clearly misunderstanding the role of an England international coach, as I've been expecting that for 14 years after losses and it doesn't seem to ever happen. FWIW, I'm fully on your side now. We're doomed.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Oi! I said it was a disaster, but it was just a blip and there was no cause for doom and gloom. Not that I was any more right for saying that, but I want you to quote my mistakes correctly please!

Puja

Oops, sorry! i know I'm thick but is there a substantial difference between 'disaster' and 'doom and gloom' when we are talking about Jones's management of a team in decline? Blip?

I was under the impression that we would actually work on our issues and get better, although I'm clearly misunderstanding the role of an England international coach, as I've been expecting that for 14 years after losses and it doesn't seem to ever happen. FWIW, I'm fully on your side now. We're doomed.

Puja

Yep. It’s time to go full on twitchy.

[Oakboy]

The mind boggles at the thoughts of Jones's credibility in the dressing room now. He can't conduct an inquest when he's the cause of death without somebody pointing it out, surely.

[Digby]

I've seen worse, so there's that. In some respects it's hard to judge when we're dicking about at sea level before flying up for games but that feels akin to giving them a pass for training too hard

[Mellsblue]

.....

[Mikey Brown]

It’s interesting to see how surprised some people (mostly not on here) are with the specific failings of this England side. It all seemed so horribly predictable. Saying that, it’s clearly going to take some atrocious results to get Eddie to change approach* so may be a good thing. I just wish it had happened earlier. All the signs were there.

The two playmakers vs two boshers conversation that’s going on right now is dumb. I’ve probably been the biggest Slade band-wagoner on here and certainly didn’t think playing him outside Farrel was going to get the most of either of them.

*is this even possible?

[Peej]

So what does Eddie do now? Double down on the selections he's made it give guys like Robson, Woodward, Wilson, Cips, Simmonds a chance to perform and, you know, actually try and learn something?

[Digby]

England don't need much. We're not always going to play at altitude, and we could always give an easier week in training. And from the match today I've no issue with the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 14 and 15, Shields might be good enough (albeit not English) but I've barely seen him, so the big decision is what to do about 10/12 axis and then who's at 12 and 13 (I'm assuming Brown doesn't stay at 11 beyond this tour)

Then we need to trim back pens by 6 a game, and drop handing errors too with a clearer idea of what we want to do. This should be easily doable.

Whether we can do anything about getting players better conditioned for test rugby by our club game I rather doubt, but the refs can help

[Mellsblue]

Then we need to trim back pens by 6 a game, and drop handing errors too with a clearer idea of what we want to do. This should be easily doable.

What in the past 10 years suggests this is easily doable?

[Digby]

Then we need to trim back pens by 6 a game, and drop handing errors too with a clearer idea of what we want to do. This should be easily doable.

What in the past 10 years suggests this is easily doable?

Common sense. Set areas that you're not okay giving up pens in/around and drop players

[Mellsblue]

Then we need to trim back pens by 6 a game, and drop handing errors too with a clearer idea of what we want to do. This should be easily doable.

What in the past 10 years suggests this is easily doable?

Common sense. Set areas that you're not okay giving up pens in/around and drop players

Simples.

[Banquo]

Well....shyte defence, soft penalties....who knew. Midfield predictably soft. Faz dreadful dreadful captaincy. Funnily enough, I think we have enough good players to be much better. There was so much shyte going on, I barely know where to start....cross-kicking, missed tackles, dopy slaps, dear God.



I could cry.

[Puja]

Then we need to trim back pens by 6 a game, and drop handing errors too with a clearer idea of what we want to do. This should be easily doable.

What in the past 10 years suggests this is easily doable?

Common sense. Set areas that you're not okay giving up pens in/around and drop players

You would've thought the ideal time for that to come in would've been between the 6N and this tour. There's yet to be any improvement (in fact it appears to be getting worse), which suggests that common sense is in short supply.

Puja

[Raggs]

So Digby is happy with almost all the team, unfortunately, we need to drop half of them to teach them ridiculous penalties aren't acceptable.

WTF were Mako, Hughes and Farrell thinking with their stupid ones?

[I R Geech]

What in the past 10 years suggests this is easily doable?

Common sense. Set areas that you're not okay giving up pens in/around and drop players

You would've thought the ideal time for that to come in would've been between the 6N and this tour. There's yet to be any improvement (in fact it appears to be getting worse), which suggests that common sense is in short supply.

Puja

Indeed, it’s brains and personality that are getting in the way. They aren’t a bad group of players, possibly even quite good, by by God they are thick, mentally fragile, with no one on the field is capable of leading well enough, coupled with an intransigent EJ who is stubborn to the point of ridiculousness who would rather double down on his mistakes because he won’t admit he’s made a mistake.

[twitchy]

I didn't even watch the game because I was enjoying the world cup so much. Reading through this thread it seems I made the right decision. I randomly watched the first half of the wales game on c4+1.

We should have taken the summer off it feels.Don't think this tour is doing any one any good.

[Digby]

So Digby is happy with almost all the team, unfortunately, we need to drop half of them to teach them ridiculous penalties aren't acceptable.

WTF were Mako, Hughes and Farrell thinking with their stupid ones?

I don't think we need to drop all player giving up daft pens. First the pens need to be discussed and consequences should be flagged in advance and then it's over to the players.

The risk for Jones is if he starts to drop players and doesn't get a positive response then they're not willing to listen to him and it's over for him as the current head coach, but at some point selection needs to be used as a stick to beat the players with

[Mikey Brown]

Mako’s was not exactly a call that merits much assessment is it? What did Farrell and Hughes do?

[Banquo]

They are thick, aren't they. Faz was a disaster as skipper yesterday, thick as mince encapsulated.

[Banquo]

Mako’s was not exactly a call that merits much assessment is it? What did Farrell and Hughes do?

well Hughes was yellow carded.....not sure on the Faz one in particular.

[Raggs]

Hughes was fecking retarded. On the floor at the ruck, not even hidden by bodies, reaches out and slaps the ball out of Faf's hands. I do wonder if a split second he realised what he'd done, because he sort of just puts his head down on the floor in a sort of "What the hell did I do that for...". Probably the stupidest of the lot.

Farrell tackled, got up slowly on the other side of the ruck, play had gone on to another ruck further downfield, the ball bounced loose towards him from the ruck, and he grabbed it. He wasn't even back onside from the first ruck that he was the tackler for, let alone the 2nd that had only just finished. Ref called play on at first since he must have assumed Farrell came round, but was pointed out to him he was always offside, Farrell then has a go at the ref for saying Play on. Sometimes offside (especially accidental from knock ons etc) can be harsh, but Farrell has no excuse for not knowing he was miles offside there.