Sack Eddie now: A thought experiment

[Oakboy]

Fundamentally, we need a new approach to selection, mental and physical training, tactics, discipline and on-field decision-making/leadership. Jones has shown constant and stubborn resistance to change so I just can't see how he can put things right (even with a new set of assistant coaches).

He has failed to get a best-possible output from a XV for at last 6 tests. That is ridiculous. I hate the thought of another sub-par RWC performance. Sack him.

[WaspInWales]

Is it too late to get Sam Burgess back?

[I R Geech]

Fundamentally, we need a new approach to selection, mental and physical training, tactics, discipline and on-field decision-making/leadership. Jones has shown constant and stubborn resistance to change so I just can't see how he can put things right (even with a new set of assistant coaches).

He has failed to get a best-possible output from a XV for at last 6 tests. That is ridiculous. I hate the thought of another sub-par RWC performance. Sack him.

It’s been more than 6 tests - even when they were winning they weren’t anywhere near putting in a convincing 80. RFU should have a wee chat with Stern Vern.

[Peat]

Yeah, because no international coach has ever gone 6 tests without getting best possible output...

He's clearly not doing all he could but the expectation that an international coach is going to bring non-stop good times is absolutely absurd.

[Banquo]

Yeah, because no international coach has ever gone 6 tests without getting best possible output...

He's clearly not doing all he could but the expectation that an international coach is going to bring non-stop good times is absolutely absurd.

at extremes of the strawmen there fellas

[Puja]

Just to cheer everyone up - the USA's new professional league appears to be paying dividends even in its first season. Their first summer series with a full-time squad and they have just beaten Scotland 30-29. It was a weaker Scotland team, but it was a deserved victory, with nothing lucky about it. Give them another year of professionalism and another year of having Gary Gold and who knows where they could be?

We play Tonga on 22nd September and have to back that up, across the other side of the country, to play USA on 26th September, with either a reserve team or tired players. Whereas for them, it'll be the first game of the tournament.

I'd like to hope that even our A team could still take the US easily, but it's looking more difficult than it was when the draw was made. I hate our luck in RWC draws.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

The US fullback is Bedford’s first choice 10. It hasn’t been proven that the effects of a season at the Goldington Rd finishing school are contagious, but this would certainly suggest they are. Sadly, he has signed another contract for next season, so we might as well accept we are going to lose that one and concentrate on the other pool matches.

[Peat]

Yeah, because no international coach has ever gone 6 tests without getting best possible output...

He's clearly not doing all he could but the expectation that an international coach is going to bring non-stop good times is absolutely absurd.

at extremes of the strawmen there fellas

You're saying dors' post is a strawman?

[Banquo]

Yeah, because no international coach has ever gone 6 tests without getting best possible output...

He's clearly not doing all he could but the expectation that an international coach is going to bring non-stop good times is absolutely absurd.

at extremes of the strawmen there fellas

You're saying dors' post is a strawman?

I'm saying both of you are making extreme points.

[morepork]

I'd like to know why the chippy Northern Golden Child seems to be more influential than the head coach. It sounds like corporate day care camp with their little meetings and so on. It's weird.

[Peat]

at extremes of the strawmen there fellas

You're saying dors' post is a strawman?

I'm saying both of you are making extreme points.

My sole point is his is way ott.

[WaspInWales]

I'd like to know why the chippy Northern Golden Child seems to be more influential than the head coach. It sounds like corporate day care camp with their little meetings and so on. It's weird.

It's a truly bizarre situation with Farrell. His limitations and failures are never questioned by the press. He is generally labelled as 'brave', 'composed', 'metronomic', 'assured', 'ice-like' and 'one of the best 10s or 12s in the world'.

Don't get me wrong, he has improved but I couldn't imagine any other top 10 nation swapping their incumbent for him.

Barrett, Sexton and Foley are all better. Wales have decent options with Biggar, Patchell and Anscombe. Russell, Pollard and the rest are all doing a job.

[Banquo]

You're saying dors' post is a strawman?

I'm saying both of you are making extreme points.

My sole point is his is way ott.

but he didn't point to non-stop good times.... . He was quizzing that we didnt have one good performance in any of 6 tests....however somewhere between non-stop good times, and not ever producing the best performance is not unreasonable.

[Puja]

The US fullback is Bedford’s first choice 10. It hasn’t been proven that the effects of a season at the Goldington Rd finishing school are contagious, but this would certainly suggest they are. Sadly, he has signed another contract for next season, so we might as well accept we are going to lose that one and concentrate on the other pool matches.

I've noticed Canada have gone down the pan since Pritchard's retirement...

Puja

[Mellsblue]

The US fullback is Bedford’s first choice 10. It hasn’t been proven that the effects of a season at the Goldington Rd finishing school are contagious, but this would certainly suggest they are. Sadly, he has signed another contract for next season, so we might as well accept we are going to lose that one and concentrate on the other pool matches.

I've noticed Canada have gone down the pan since Pritchard's retirement...

Puja

The sheer weight of evidence is making the Goldington Rd theory irrefutable.

[Spiffy]

I have to say, as gash as we are right now, I don't see sacking Jones at this point as an option. But we can certainly tear up that contract extension if we don't see a real reaction from him. Nobody can hide from the persisting issues at this point.

Why not? The team is gawd awful and has no organization, leadership or discernable tactics, and half the squad are not up to international rugby. This is down to Jones, his continually-flawed selections and the way he runs the whole shebang. Would things be worse under any other coach, even a caretaker? Once you are under the belly of the snake, you can't get any lower.
Most of the regular posters here could pick a better team and come up with a more effective game plan. England should be sending out an SOS to Banquo/Puja/Digby.

[Mellsblue]

I have to say, as gash as we are right now, I don't see sacking Jones at this point as an option. But we can certainly tear up that contract extension if we don't see a real reaction from him. Nobody can hide from the persisting issues at this point.

England should be sending out an SOS to Banquo/Puja/Digby.

I’m all for hitting the panic button but this is madness. If the RFU do want to go down this route I want a ticket to the first selection meeting. Banquo would be saying it’s not even worth picking a team as the players aren’t good enough, Diggers would pick Kvesic for every position and Puja would be saying he still thinks Lancaster should be head coach. If they were to ask my opinion, I’d suggest they pick Chris Cook at flyhalf.

[Peat]

I'm saying both of you are making extreme points.

My sole point is his is way ott.

but he didn't point to non-stop good times.... . He was quizzing that we didnt have one good performance in any of 6 tests....however somewhere between non-stop good times, and not ever producing the best performance is not unreasonable.

Advocating a sacking goes a fair bit beyond that, no? If you sacked every international coach who went through six bad games, how many of them would still have jobs?

*shrugs* Whatevs. Probably best if I just ignore Dors' hyperbole.

[Renniks]

Other than our player being offside, that was some fantastic defence, and great pressure… France should have got the ball wide there as they weren't winning any collision

[Mikey Brown]

I have to say, as gash as we are right now, I don't see sacking Jones at this point as an option. But we can certainly tear up that contract extension if we don't see a real reaction from him. Nobody can hide from the persisting issues at this point.

Why not? The team is gawd awful and has no organization, leadership or discernable tactics, and half the squad are not up to international rugby. This is down to Jones, his continually-flawed selections and the way he runs the whole shebang. Would things be worse under any other coach, even a caretaker? Once you are under the belly of the snake, you can't get any lower.
Most of the regular posters here could pick a better team and come up with a more effective game plan. England should be sending out an SOS to Banquo/Puja/Digby.

Mainly because I don't trust the people in charge to actually improve things. He has clearly been given a brief that puts far too much focus on the World Cup, rather than just getting as good at rugby as possible.

It's hard to tell with Eddie because he talks so much shit, but I definitely think there's something to this theme of pushing a 30-man squad to the absolute limits. The beastings in training. The obsession over what happens if a lock, flanker, winger, fullback get injured etc. I'm not actually defending any of that, I think he's got his approach really wrong on a lot of levels, but what are they going to do if they sack him?

[Peat]

Who are they going to appoint too? How many good international coaches are there out there who are free and fancy taking on England at this stage? Particularly an England that go around sacking successful coaches after the first period of adversity| I mean, our best domestic coaches have shown no interest.

I think the best thing you'd get out of sacking Jones is a dead cat bounce. In which case... why waste it now?

Also, if half the squad isn't up to international rugby... that isn't on Jones, unless I've missed all the conversations about the 15 or so players we think have been madly overlooked.

[Digby]

For £600k/year I'm willing to take it on

[Banquo]

My sole point is his is way ott.

but he didn't point to non-stop good times.... . He was quizzing that we didnt have one good performance in any of 6 tests....however somewhere between non-stop good times, and not ever producing the best performance is not unreasonable.

Advocating a sacking goes a fair bit beyond that, no? If you sacked every international coach who went through six bad games, how many of them would still have jobs?

*shrugs* Whatevs. Probably best if I just ignore Dors' hyperbole.

exactly my point....two extremes. But yes

[Oakboy]

Who are they going to appoint too? How many good international coaches are there out there who are free and fancy taking on England at this stage? Particularly an England that go around sacking successful coaches after the first period of adversity| I mean, our best domestic coaches have shown no interest.

I think the best thing you'd get out of sacking Jones is a dead cat bounce. In which case... why waste it now?

Also, if half the squad isn't up to international rugby... that isn't on Jones, unless I've missed all the conversations about the 15 or so players we think have been madly overlooked.

Assuming that Jones is retained, how do you think we will go up to and including the RWC?

I wonder if targets were set when he was appointed and whether he is on schedule.

[Peat]

Who are they going to appoint too? How many good international coaches are there out there who are free and fancy taking on England at this stage? Particularly an England that go around sacking successful coaches after the first period of adversity| I mean, our best domestic coaches have shown no interest.

I think the best thing you'd get out of sacking Jones is a dead cat bounce. In which case... why waste it now?

Also, if half the squad isn't up to international rugby... that isn't on Jones, unless I've missed all the conversations about the 15 or so players we think have been madly overlooked.

Assuming that Jones is retained, how do you think we will go up to and including the RWC?

I wonder if targets were set when he was appointed and whether he is on schedule.

Don't know. Haven't seen enough of how he turns a squad around plus the squad is so thin in places that we're very much at the mercy of injuries. Ask me again in the autumn.