The Tour - pluses

[Oakboy]

Ha Ha, you are, like, totally stuck with Farrell. That there is the biggest problem with England.

Excuse me if I don't see the funny side of that.

[Which Tyler]

Ha Ha, you are, like, totally stuck with Farrell. That there is the biggest problem with England.

Excuse me if I don't see the funny side of that.

I finally met someone IRL who actively dislikes Farrell as much as most of us on here; and sees him as hampering the team.
He happened to be an unbiased kiwi who is utterly confused about all the love everyone seems to have for the Iceman

[morepork]

Looking for love in all the wrong places man.

[Peat]

Ha Ha, you are, like, totally stuck with Farrell. That there is the biggest problem with England.

Excuse me if I don't see the funny side of that.

Where's your gallows humour man?

[Oakboy]

Ha Ha, you are, like, totally stuck with Farrell. That there is the biggest problem with England.

Excuse me if I don't see the funny side of that.

Where's your gallows humour man?

Somewhere in the irony of having a shackle-dragger as head coach perhaps!

[richy678]

Like many...
I think weve got a couple of lads who can play 7 now - Underhill and Curry.
Jury out on Shield's - but on paper he is probably the 6. I would love to see Mark Wilson get a chance and lay claim, the same with Armand.

I am not a May fan but doff my cap to his performances.

Our front 5 are not going to dominate anybody, but the offloads and hands are decent glitter on a turd.

Billy and Hughes look like they will carrying injuries the rest of their careers.

I think we are going to effectively go backward by standing still next season as all the cards are already on the table.
Possibly have a look at Dave Attwood now hes back at Bath for some proper grunt.

I think the midfield has an obvious, not particular clever, effective and possibly hungry, fix, to paper over the cracks.
Bring back Manu.
Absolutely - we do not return to the previous 3/4 play book of "give the ball the Manu", but we need his direct power. Jones don't like him. He is a loose cannon behavior wise, put we need him back.

[Beasties]

Re Underhill and Curry, I'm far from convinced Underhill will be in the equation once Willis is back and firing on all cylinders. I just don't see what Underhill has over Willis apart from a couple of international caps. Willis' injury couldn't have come at a worse time for Eng from a squad planning point of view. Curry has been a revelation for me, his physicality at this level has now been proven. He's far from a monster granted, but he has held his own in SA, which is promising in itself.

These have been May's best games by a mile, let's hope he's now comfortable at this level. I've been underwhelmed by his previous performances for Eng in spite of wanting to see him for years.

A week later and I'm struggling to come up with any more pluses. Marler reminded us he's worth a spot, Daly got some gametime at 15ish and Brown tried his hardest to make the best of a bad job (but then we knew he would). That's it.

[Mikey Brown]

Gosh. The issue with Manu really isn’t concerns over his behaviour.

[Oakboy]

Who will Gloucester play either side of Cipriani? He's made Robson and Gopperth look pretty useful at Wasps.

[Raggs]

Heinz and 36/atkinson i guess.

[Which Tyler]

Hopefully Vellacott can get a bit more game time; and then yeah; 36

[Mellsblue]

and then yeah; 36

Blatant wummery.

[Peat]

and then yeah; 36

Blatant wummery.

Still maybe a better option than Farrell.

Blatant wummery and depressing truth in one neat package.

[Mellsblue]

and then yeah; 36

Blatant wummery.

Still maybe a better option than Farrell.

Blatant wummery and depressing truth in one neat package.

Was more 36 over Atkinson.....

[Digby]

Blatant wummery.

Still maybe a better option than Farrell.

Blatant wummery and depressing truth in one neat package.

Was more 36 over Atkinson.....

Maybe WT assumed Glaws would want to play about a gentle walking pace

[Spiffy]

So, nothing about Ford’s passing cutting apart the SA defence in the previous two tests? I don’t see how Cipriani’s performance in the third test demands he now plays ahead of Ford. Who is your second choice flyhalf if Cipriani gets injured the day before the match?

Oh, I agree that Ford has a superb pass of either hand and I don't suggest he's lacking in ability. Mind you, if we are talking about pure passing ability, I think Slade is just as good.

I gave Cipriani's kick-through as an example of brain and body performing under pressure in a way that I don't think Ford can match but I've had him ahead of Ford for years not just because of the 3rd test. Had he had as many games as Ford he'd be 1st choice without argument, IMO.

Having said all that, I was dreaming about Cipriani getting a clear run in the AIs without the four I mentioned (and I'd cheerfully have Smith as back-up, by the way). I don't think for a moment that Jones will make Cipriani 1st choice FH but that's Jones's failure. Let's face it, if Tuilagi was fit (and I don't think he ever will be), he'd get the 12 shirt and there's a small chance that T'eo will in any case. If it then comes down to only one of the three FHs playing, I'm certain that Jones will rank them 1. Farrell, 2. Ford, 3. Cipriani.

It's interesting that in that rugby magazine link that 5P posted, over half the responders voted for Cipriani as 1st choice FH but, almost as interesting too, was the significantly larger number choosing Farrell than Ford. (Can't remember the exact figures but it was something like 55, 35, 10 for the three). I can't explain that but maybe the perception relates to character with Cipriani seen as the maverick skill-merchant, Farrell seen as the feisty, in-your-face competitor and Ford seen as a bit lacking in character.

The overall conclusion I would reach, is that Jones has somehow contrived to get the best out of none of them. Add in the failure to find/try an alternative at SH and you have a fairly dire management failing, IMO.

How is Slade’s passing from 10? Loving that we are picking Cipriani on one moment, despite an otherwise average performance containing a few errors, and a poll of the general public. It’s hardly a weighty body of evidence.

If you think Smith is ready for test rugby you can’t have seen the u20 semi and final. He went missing somewhat. It was the sort of performance you’ve repeatedly held up as showing Ford lacks mental fortitude.

I’m all for Cipriani getting a shot with a new 9 and 12, but getting rid of Ford without affording him the same opportunity is chucking the baby out with the bath water.

It is hard for Cipriani to look other than average when Captain Courageous, "Me,me me" Farrell does not let him play the game like a proper fly half.

[Mellsblue]

Oh, I agree that Ford has a superb pass of either hand and I don't suggest he's lacking in ability. Mind you, if we are talking about pure passing ability, I think Slade is just as good.

I gave Cipriani's kick-through as an example of brain and body performing under pressure in a way that I don't think Ford can match but I've had him ahead of Ford for years not just because of the 3rd test. Had he had as many games as Ford he'd be 1st choice without argument, IMO.

Having said all that, I was dreaming about Cipriani getting a clear run in the AIs without the four I mentioned (and I'd cheerfully have Smith as back-up, by the way). I don't think for a moment that Jones will make Cipriani 1st choice FH but that's Jones's failure. Let's face it, if Tuilagi was fit (and I don't think he ever will be), he'd get the 12 shirt and there's a small chance that T'eo will in any case. If it then comes down to only one of the three FHs playing, I'm certain that Jones will rank them 1. Farrell, 2. Ford, 3. Cipriani.

It's interesting that in that rugby magazine link that 5P posted, over half the responders voted for Cipriani as 1st choice FH but, almost as interesting too, was the significantly larger number choosing Farrell than Ford. (Can't remember the exact figures but it was something like 55, 35, 10 for the three). I can't explain that but maybe the perception relates to character with Cipriani seen as the maverick skill-merchant, Farrell seen as the feisty, in-your-face competitor and Ford seen as a bit lacking in character.

The overall conclusion I would reach, is that Jones has somehow contrived to get the best out of none of them. Add in the failure to find/try an alternative at SH and you have a fairly dire management failing, IMO.

How is Slade’s passing from 10? Loving that we are picking Cipriani on one moment, despite an otherwise average performance containing a few errors, and a poll of the general public. It’s hardly a weighty body of evidence.

If you think Smith is ready for test rugby you can’t have seen the u20 semi and final. He went missing somewhat. It was the sort of performance you’ve repeatedly held up as showing Ford lacks mental fortitude.

I’m all for Cipriani getting a shot with a new 9 and 12, but getting rid of Ford without affording him the same opportunity is chucking the baby out with the bath water.

It is hard for Cipriani to look other than average when Captain Courageous, "Me,me me" Farrell does not let him play the game like a proper fly half.

Agreed. The whole conversation started because Dors wanted Ford to get a short term injury so Cips could have go. My whole point was that how do we know he won’t do a job without Youngs and Farrell cramping his style. He’s certainly been central to the good moments we’ve had.

[morepork]

Farrell sucks yak cock.

[Peat]

Blatant wummery.

Still maybe a better option than Farrell.

Blatant wummery and depressing truth in one neat package.

Was more 36 over Atkinson.....

Ah.

Well, I stand by my point anyway.

[Digby]

Farrell sucks yak cock.

You're not respecting the age of diversity, supposing the B in LGBQT stands for bestiality

[Digby]

Still maybe a better option than Farrell.

Blatant wummery and depressing truth in one neat package.

Was more 36 over Atkinson.....

Ah.

Well, I stand by my point anyway.

He does seem to have a better skill set for 12 than Farrell, though 36 isn't excused the errors in similar fashion for whatever reason.

I would say I wonder if me moved Farrell back to 10 adding some physicality there whether we'd look at Eastmond at 12 again, but I don't really wonder. And there is a problem we're absent of even one obvious selection at 12

[Which Tyler]

I'm still hopeful that Devoto can stay fit and that player 36 could have been.
He arrived at Ex with everyone expecting him to be 4th/5th choice centre, and establish himself as first choice within a season. This season was dominated for him by injury and never really getting a run of games together.
Hopefully a full pre-season will see him advance again.

Unless, of course, Eddie just didn't like something about him when called up to sit on the bench when he wasn't close to being ready.

Otherwise we're hoping for a fit and firing Tuilagi - a creature notnseen in 7 years; or tossing a coin between the downsides of Fazlet Vs the downsides of Te'o (if he stays fit for that matter).
Only other option would be the emergence of random ANOther hitting a purple patch and demanding a shot from nowhere. Maybe if Clark gets a run of games, or inspired by Jamie Roberts, or Mallinder finds his tested and tackling technique hidden in the wardrobe... By definition, this one is an option that would surprise is all

[Beasties]

Of the games Devoto has actually played for Exeter what's the breakdown between him playing 12 and 13? I still think he's the nearest thing we've got to a "solution" at 12, but he's almost in the Manu category of believe it when you see it. It'd take a long term injury to Faz to open the door though, Piers Francis notwithstanding..........

[Oakboy]

Hardwick or Dingwall? Both could have what it takes but will they get the chance to prove it even at club level?

[Which Tyler]

Of the games Devoto has actually played for Exeter what's the breakdown between him playing 12 and 13? I still think he's the nearest thing we've got to a "solution" at 12, but he's almost in the Manu category of believe it when you see it. It'd take a long term injury to Faz to open the door though, Piers Francis notwithstanding..........

Pass, his first year at Ex was something like 85-90% at IC (mostly alongside Slade), this year he's had too few starts to be a fair assessment.

Either way, I'm pretty sure he's had more time at IC than Tuilagi has, and possibly a higher proportion than Te'o (at Wuss)

As for comparing him to Manu... He looked the part in his one season as a regular in one position. Since then he's had 1 season ruined by injury, whilst before then he had 1 season ruined by versatility/injuries around him.
If he stays fit this season, and doesn't get a look in, then it's time to wonder if he'll fulfill his potential. Surely any player needs to lose more than 1 season to injury before picking up a sicknote tag?