Syria

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UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

Sandydragon wrote:
Theres an interesting article on Bellingcat .
Bellingcat: the Dead Cat Factory

Need a Dead Cat?
Call Bellingcat.
Dead Cats thrown straight on your table.

http://off-guardian.org/2016/02/28/bell ... t-factory/
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

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UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

Mellsblue.
UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

Mellsblue.
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rowan
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Re: Syria

Post by rowan »

Assad sweeps to victory, by the looks of it, though the US refused to accept such an outcome even before it became one. Meanwhile, the US-backed rebels have vowed to continue fighting for regime change, and Turkey has continued bombing inside Syrian borders. I suspect this proxy war is a long way from over... :(
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Sandydragon
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Re: Syria

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Elections were only held in regime held areas. So those who generally oppose Assad couldn't vote anyway.

AS much as this is dressed up by some as outsiders alone interfering, this is a genuine civil war, brought about in a huge part by Assad himself. Any long term peace deal that finds him remaining in post as President for more than an interim period won't work, even if Putin decided to add his weight to the outcome.
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Sandydragon
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Re: Syria

Post by Sandydragon »

UGagain wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:
Theres an interesting article on Bellingcat .
Bellingcat: the Dead Cat Factory

Need a Dead Cat?
Call Bellingcat.
Dead Cats thrown straight on your table.

http://off-guardian.org/2016/02/28/bell ... t-factory/
How is Bellingcat any different to what you do? Except they tend to be more evidence based and get a more discerning audience. Keep on ignoring those inconvenient truths.
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rowan
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Re: Syria

Post by rowan »

Sandydragon wrote:Elections were only held in regime held areas. So those who generally oppose Assad couldn't vote anyway.

AS much as this is dressed up by some as outsiders alone interfering, this is a genuine civil war, brought about in a huge part by Assad himself. Any long term peace deal that finds him remaining in post as President for more than an interim period won't work, even if Putin decided to add his weight to the outcome.
The war began when NATO and its allies (notably Saudi and Israel) began arming and training rebels, many of whom entered quite freely from the northern border. A large number of them were Iraqi Sunnis disenfranchised by the Bush & Blair invasion. Not surprisingly, therefore, some turned directly to committing acts of terrorism, slaughtering Alawite families in cold blood and so on. The chemical weapons attack in Damascus, which almost triggered another US bombing campaign, has since been traced back to the rebels (the source of those weapons lying north of the border).

The involvement of NATO members in the conflict was uninvited and highly dubious. We know at least one of them was working with the rebels/terrorists to steal oil, and bombing so-called ISID's enemies in the process. The Russians, however, were invited by the Syrian government, and therefore acted within international law. A leaked US intelligence document actually praised their efficiency.

Assad is certainly no saint (unless you compare him to America & Europe's close allies in Saudi and Israel), and responded brutally to the Arab Spring protests just prior to the war. But there is no connection between the students and school teachers who took part in that event and the deranged maniacs running amok in the north and hacking people's heads off. In fact, retired American general Wesley Clark actually included Syria on a list of nations America intended to 'take out' in plans drawn up shortly after 9/11. Others included Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Somalia.

Why does America wan't regime change in Syria. Well, for one thing Damascus is aligned with Moscow and Tehran. It has been that way ever since Kermit Roosevelt and the CIA attempted to follow up their anti-democratic coup in Iran in 1953 with a similar operation in Syria. Meanwhile, the Assads are not Sunni and therefore hated by Saudi, they have a land dispute with Israel which still refuses to return land stolen (according to the UN) in the 1967 war, and they refused a Qatari request to build a pipeline across their country to Turkey & Europe, favouring an Irani pipeline directly into the Mediterranean instead. The latter is probably the major reason for the current conflict.

Incidentally, I was in Syria just a few years before it all kicked off and it seemed relatively calm at the time, notwithstanding an influx of refugees from Iraq following the Bush & Blair invasion. I also have good friends in the south of Turkey, closer to th border, who I chat with on FB about the issue from time to time.
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UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

Sandydragon wrote:
UGagain wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:
Theres an interesting article on Bellingcat .
Bellingcat: the Dead Cat Factory

Need a Dead Cat?
Call Bellingcat.
Dead Cats thrown straight on your table.

http://off-guardian.org/2016/02/28/bell ... t-factory/
How is Bellingcat any different to what you do? Except they tend to be more evidence based and get a more discerning audience. Keep on ignoring those inconvenient truths.
I genuinely laughed out loud at that.

You're a true believer.
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

Mellsblue.
UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

Sandydragon wrote:Elections were only held in regime held areas. So those who generally oppose Assad couldn't vote anyway.

AS much as this is dressed up by some as outsiders alone interfering, this is a genuine civil war, brought about in a huge part by Assad himself. Any long term peace deal that finds him remaining in post as President for more than an interim period won't work, even if Putin decided to add his weight to the outcome.

Dude, nobody who is awake believes that shit anymore.

And it isn't up to the masters of the universe that you slavishly follow to decide who the president of Syria is going to be.
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

Mellsblue.
UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

rowan wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Elections were only held in regime held areas. So those who generally oppose Assad couldn't vote anyway.

AS much as this is dressed up by some as outsiders alone interfering, this is a genuine civil war, brought about in a huge part by Assad himself. Any long term peace deal that finds him remaining in post as President for more than an interim period won't work, even if Putin decided to add his weight to the outcome.
The war began when NATO and its allies (notably Saudi and Israel) began arming and training rebels, many of whom entered quite freely from the northern border. A large number of them were Iraqi Sunnis disenfranchised by the Bush & Blair invasion. Not surprisingly, therefore, some turned directly to committing acts of terrorism, slaughtering Alawite families in cold blood and so on. The chemical weapons attack in Damascus, which almost triggered another US bombing campaign, has since been traced back to the rebels (the source of those weapons lying north of the border).

The involvement of NATO members in the conflict was uninvited and highly dubious. We know at least one of them was working with the rebels/terrorists to steal oil, and bombing so-called ISID's enemies in the process. The Russians, however, were invited by the Syrian government, and therefore acted within international law. A leaked US intelligence document actually praised their efficiency.

Assad is certainly no saint (unless you compare him to America & Europe's close allies in Saudi and Israel), and responded brutally to the Arab Spring protests just prior to the war. But there is no connection between the students and school teachers who took part in that event and the deranged maniacs running amok in the north and hacking people's heads off. In fact, retired American general Wesley Clark actually included Syria on a list of nations America intended to 'take out' in plans drawn up shortly after 9/11. Others included Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Somalia.

Why does America wan't regime change in Syria. Well, for one thing Damascus is aligned with Moscow and Tehran. It has been that way ever since Kermit Roosevelt and the CIA attempted to follow up their anti-democratic coup in Iran in 1953 with a similar operation in Syria. Meanwhile, the Assads are not Sunni and therefore hated by Saudi, they have a land dispute with Israel which still refuses to return land stolen (according to the UN) in the 1967 war, and they refused a Qatari request to build a pipeline across their country to Turkey & Europe, favouring an Irani pipeline directly into the Mediterranean instead. The latter is probably the major reason for the current conflict.

Incidentally, I was in Syria just a few years before it all kicked off and it seemed relatively calm at the time, notwithstanding an influx of refugees from Iraq following the Bush & Blair invasion. I also have good friends in the south of Turkey, closer to th border, who I chat with on FB about the issue from time to time.
Indeed, over a million of them. And instead of getting help from the 'international community" the got economic warfare aka sanctions. And Robert (death squads'r'us) Ford running around the country inciting 'democracy activists'.
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

Mellsblue.
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rowan
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Re: Syria

Post by rowan »

Good article from veteran Australian journalist John Pilger here: http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/ ... hat-moves/
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UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

rowan wrote:Good article from veteran Australian journalist John Pilger here: http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/ ... hat-moves/

And today President Peace Prize was in Europe agitating for war on Russia. Dutifully flanked by the usual lap dogs of the so called free world.

It's astonishing that there are people in the west that fear Russia and Putin more than they fear their own mass murdering 'leaders'. And try to justify serial western aggression.

It's a mental illness.
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

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rowan
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Re: Syria

Post by rowan »

UGagain wrote:
rowan wrote:Good article from veteran Australian journalist John Pilger here: http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/ ... hat-moves/

And today President Peace Prize was in Europe agitating for war on Russia. Dutifully flanked by the usual lap dogs of the so called free world.

It's astonishing that there are people in the west that fear Russia and Putin more than they fear their own mass murdering 'leaders'. And try to justify serial western aggression.

It's a mental illness.
Absolutely! Obama has been involved in 7 wars in the Middle East, only the Russians prevented the US and its allies from turning Syria into another Iraq, and we're all supposed to be worried about Putin (who is certainly no saint, btw).

Anyway, here's another one: http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16159
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rowan
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Re: Syria

Post by rowan »

Another good article on the current situation. Notice how when the US or one of its allies takes out a terrorist or two, while whiping out dozens of civilians in the process, the headlines are always about the terrorists, but when the Syrians or Russians do the same, the headlines are always about the civilians. No doubt the Russian media do it the other way around, but 2 wrongs don't make a right, so let's try and keep things in perspective: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-u ... ia/5522623
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UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

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Zhivago
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Re: Syria

Post by Zhivago »

Interesting, thanks!

Все буде Україна!
Смерть ворогам!!

UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

Dr Nabil Antaki, from Hwaairfan’s Blog
“With regards to recent events in Aleppo, I state very clearly that the mainstream media are lying by omission. Since the beginning of the war in Aleppo that began 4 years ago, they have consistently failed to report all the facts.
All of us here in Aleppo are disgusted by their lack of impartiality and objectivity. They only ever talk about the loss of life in the east of Aleppo which is entirely controlled by Al Nusra, a terrorist group affiliated with Al Qaeda. These are their “moderate rebels” a title that affords them an unmerited degree of respectability.
This same media remains silent on the daily losses and suffering endured in the Western areas of Aleppo living under the rain of mortar fire from these terrorist factions. This media never mentions the terrorist blockade upon our people or the electricity cuts and water shortages inflicted upon us by their “moderate rebels”
This media never mention the continuous bombardment and the carnage we have witnessed in western Aleppo where every single sector has been targeted. On a daily basis we see dozens of people murdered.
What makes these omissions even more despicable is that these areas represent 75% of Aleppo and there are 1.5 million people living in them. Compare this to the 300,000 living in the eastern zone which is occupied by terrorist groups.
This twisted narrative engenders the belief that these terrorist groups that are attacking us are actually the victims. Even more abhorrent, these media have distorted our “Save Aleppo” appeal, to make it look as if we are calling for Assad and the Syrian Army to cease hostilities!
This is FALSE. Added to which, they are not “Assad’s forces“, they are the national forces of the regular Syrian army that is defending the Syrian State.
The western and gulf media could at least have had the decency to mention the terrorist massacres of our people. For example, on Friday 30th April, when one of their mortars targeted a mosque at prayer time.
The attacks and losses we suffer are reported in a way that leaves the public in the dark about the true perpetrators of these crimes.
For three days now, these media outlets have been accusing the “Assad regime” of bombing an MSF hospital [Medecins sans Frontieres] to the east of Aleppo and of killing the last paediatrician in the city. This demonstrates that, for these media, the only priority is this pocket of the city where terrorists are embedded.
The three quarters of Aleppo under Syrian Government control where numerous paediatricians are practicing is of no consequence for this media. We witnessed the same bias when Al Kindi, the biggest hospital in Aleppo, was targeted by terrorist mortars and then intentionally burnt down about 2 or 3 years ago. The media ignored this criminal act.
We are disheartened and disgusted by this continuous disinformation. ” Dr Nabil Antaki, translation by Vanessa Beeley

https://hwaairfan.wordpress.com/2016/05 ... -and-lies/
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

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rowan
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Re: Syria

Post by rowan »

Geat stuff! Keep 'em coming...

Meanwhile today about 30 people have been reported killed in an attack on a refugee camp. Western media immediately blames Assad and Russia. What possible motive could they have? Is it possible the camp was actually a rebel/terrorist training base in disguise?
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UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

Kerry is barely hiding that the Salaafists and Taqfiris are under US orders.

Writing for the AP, Bradley Klapper explained:

“Secretary of State John Kerry warned Syria’s government and its backers in Moscow and Tehran on Tuesday that they face an August deadline for starting a political transition to move President Bashar Assad out, or they risk the consequences of a new U.S. approach toward ending the 5-year-old civil war (war of aggression).” Klapper

The Sec. of State made it clear, regime change is the desired outcome of the U.S. and they will settle for nothing less.

“The target date for the transition is 1st of August. So we’re now coming up to May. So either something happens in these next few months, or they are asking for a very different track.”
“If Assad does not adhere to this, there will clearly be repercussions. One of them may be the total destruction of the cease-fire and then go back to war. I don’t think Russia wants that. I don’t think Assad is going to benefit from that. There may be even other repercussions being discussed. That is for the future.”
“If Assad’s strategy is to somehow think he’s going to just carve out Aleppo and carve out a section of the country, I got news for you and for him: This war doesn’t end,”
“As long as Assad is there, the opposition is not going to stop fighting,” John Kerry, Sec. of State for the Obama administration
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

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UGagain
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Re: Syria

Post by UGagain »

Rick Sterling writes an open letter to MSF/Doctors without Borders:
Dear MSF International President Dr. Joanne Liu,

Your organization is well regarded and influential. I appreciate that many good people work for and support MSF/Doctors Without Borders. However, I need to inquire about your independence and the consequences of your work in Syria. I believe an objective look will reveal that while you are helping in some areas, you are causing harm in others.

Following are questions on this important issue:

(1) As you know, Aleppo is a large city with the government forces holding western Aleppo while other parts of the city are dominated by armed opposition groups, primarily Nusra/Al Qaeda. About 1.5 to 2 million people live in the government areas with about 200 to 250 thousand in the areas controlled by armed opposition. So 80-90 % of the population is in government-controlled areas. This is rarely mentioned but seems important. Given this fact, is it true that you provide aid and support only to the opposition held areas?

(2) On April 21 the Western and Gulf backed “High Negotiations Committee” announced they were quitting the Geneva negotiations. The next day, hundreds of mortars and bombs started being launched into western Aleppo from the zones controlled by Nusra and other terrorist groups. These bombs are powerful, wounding and killing indiscriminately. Syrian journalist Edward Dark noted that western media and groups such as MSF were silent on this even though hospitals were being hit, dozens of children and civilians killed. On twitter he reported day by day …..

— West Aleppo is simply being obliterated by rebel shelling. A city of 2 million people is being butchered.

— Carnage and devastation as ‘moderate rebel’ bombs fall on west Aleppo like rain.

— Terrorist rebel bombs are still falling like rain on west Aleppo. 15 people murdered at a mosque in Bab Faraj after Friday prayers.

— This is the hospital where my son was born. Dabeet Hospital in W.Aleppo completely destroyed by rebel shelling.

Has MSF denounced these killings and attacks on hospitals in western Aleppo?

(3) The unconcern about indiscriminate attacks and killing in government-held areas of Aleppo has also been denounced by Syrian-Canadian physician Dr. Nabil Antaki. He has recently written:

“With regards to recent events in Aleppo, I state very clearly that the mainstream media are lying by omission… All of us here in Aleppo are disgusted by their lack of impartiality and objectivity. They only talk about the loss of life in east of Aleppo which is entirely controlled by Al Nusra…. These are their ‘moderate rebels’ …This same media remains silent on the daily losses and suffering endured in the Western areas of Aleppo living under the rain of mortar fire from these terrorist factions. This media never mentions the continuous bombardment and the carnage we have witnessed in western Aleppo where every single sector has been targeted. On a daily basis we see dozens of people murdered….. For three days now, these media outlets have been accusing the “Assad regime” of bombing an MSF hospital to the east of Aleppo and of killing the last pediatrician in the city. This demonstrates that, for these media, the only priority is this pocket of the city where terrorists are embedded. The three quarters of Aleppo under Syrian government control, where numerous pediatricians are practicing, is of no consequence.”

Dr. Liu, will you meet with Dr. Antaki? Perhaps he could give you a tour and confirm to you what he says. He is a well known and respected doctor in Aleppo and fellow Canadian citizen.

(4) There are many discrepancies in reports about the April 27 attack on Al Quds Hospital. MSF Middle East Operations Manager Pablo Marco, interviewed the next day on CNN and PBS Newshour, said “there were two barrel bombs that fell close to the hospital …. then the third barrel bomb fell in the entrance of the hospital”. Barrel bombs are only delivered by helicopters. In contrast, your press release the same day says “the hospital was destroyed by at least one airstrike which directly hit the building, reducing it to rubble.” A CBC report continued this version, claiming “An MSF-supported hospital in the northern Syria city of Aleppo is now a pile of rubble. Airstrikes brought down the building on Wednesday.” The hospital photograph indicates it is not a “pile of rubble” and it’s unclear where the damage is. The sandbag reinforcement and damaged car in front indicate it might have been a battle scene but the rest is unclear. Which story is correct and accurate?

The number of fatalities has varied from initial death counts of 14 to later reports of over 50. How are these numbers verified?

(5) MSF representatives Pablo Marco and Muskilda Zancada suggest this was a deliberate and intentional attack on the hospital. In an interview Ms. Zancada says “Al Quds Hospital has been functional for more than 4 years so it was basically impossible that this information was not known… The facts are pointing to this being a deliberate attack.” In contrast with Ms. Zancada’s assertions, most Aleppans have never heard of “Al Quds Hospital”. The “hospital” did not exist before the conflict and the photo shows an unidentified apartment building. Is it accurate to call this facility a “hospital”? Mr. Marco claimed that MSF supported personnel visited the hospital every other week so there must be many reports, documents and photos confirming whether it was a 34 bed hospital. Otherwise, it seems fair to say this was actually a medical clinic in the ground floor of an unmarked and largely abandoned apartment building.

(6) Can Mr. Marco or Ms. Zancada please identify the damage inflicted by the airstrike (or barrel bomb) at Al Quds Hospital on April 27? The Russian Ministry of Defense has released a photograph indicating the building had similar damage in October 2015.

(7) As you know, Nusra/Al Qaeda is considered ‘terrorist’ by all parties including the US, French, and Canadian governments. Does the Al Quds Hospital primarily or significantly serve Al Qaeda and/or other terrorist fighters? If so, are your supporters aware they are assisting fighters who launched bombs attacking western Aleppo as shown here and previously destroyed the once prized Al Kindi Hospital with a huge truck bomb as shown here? I appreciate you have a commitment to the hippocratic oath but given the widespread medical needs, why are you prioritizing assistance to Nusra/Al Qaeda?

(8) Many videos from Al Quds Hospital feature members of the “White Helmets”. Are you aware the White Helmets was established by the US and UK with initial training in Turkey by a UK military contractor? Are you aware the organization is not independent or neutral and has explicitly called for western intervention in Syria? The origins of the “White Helmets” is documented here . There is an online petition denouncing this clever but cynical marketing campaign here.

(9) Can you you please compare and contrast the videos showing attacks at MSF- supported Al Quds Hospital with videos showing attacks in western Aleppo? The videos from Al Quds Hospital are here and here with an animated one here. The attacks in western Aleppo including an attack on Al Dabeet Hospital are here, here and here. Do you see the difference between videos from armed opposition area vs. those from western Aleppo? Some look authentic and some look possibly staged.

(10) We know that many Western and Gulf countries are providing funds to help the armed opposition in Syria. For example in 2012 the Canadian government said: “The reason the $2 million was being channeled through Canadian Relief for Syria instead of the UN or International Committee of the Red Cross was because it was intended for Syrian opposition groups and was not humanitarian aid.” Is MSF directly or indirectly receiving grants or funds from the Canadian, French or US governments to serve Syrian opposition groups?

(11) There has been a wave of media coverage of Al Quds Hospital and the death of Dr. Moaz (sometimes spelled Maaz). Some of the reports are clearly intended to tug at the heart and natural sympathy of people. Unfortunately propagandists can be effective in this area as they seek to manipulate public opinion. There are many examples with the Kuwaiti babies and incubators being one of the most famous frauds as it successfully won public support for Gulf War 1. Both Amnesty International and the International Red Crescent were (unwittingly) part of the fraud. My point is this: Some of the Al Quds Hospital stories are questionable and may be fraudulent.

For example, the letter from a fellow physician acclaiming Dr Moaz was published by “The Syria Campaign” which is the marketing creator of the “White Helmets”. The letter is supposedly from a fellow doctor who might or might not be real. They use a false name yet claim he “manages the Children’s Hospital in Aleppo”. Another questionable piece of ‘evidence’ of the death of Dr. Moaz is the video supposedly taken just before the building was hit by missile or bomb. It’s curious that the building would be destroyed and the CCTV cameras (several of them) survive and be ready for editing. Is this real or is it just another example of the “moderate rebel’ social media propaganda?

(12) Biased media coverage on Syria serves to demonize the Assad government and prolong the conflict. It has made it easier for foreign aggressors to continue funding the proxy armies such as Nusra/Al Qaeda. There is danger of vastly increased conflict and bloodshed if foreign governments or NATO intervene directly. In fact, calls for greater aggression are increasing in the wake of publicity around the attack at Al Quds Hospital. Are you aware that the Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia seemed to threaten an escalation of the conflict as he said “The world is not going to allow them to get away with this.”?

Dr. Liu, we agree with your insistence that medical personnel and facilities should not be attacked. That is in keeping with the Geneva Conventions on War. There are other international laws, including laws against aggression and the right of self-defense. It is clear that the Syrian government is being attacked by proxy armies funded by a coalition of foreign governments in violation of international law and the UN Charter.

Will you investigate whether the criticisms expressed in this letter are accurate and take appropriate action? It seems that current MSF actions and statements on Syria are biased and effectively serving the coalition of governments waging war on Syria in violation of international law. The bias and propaganda sustain the conflict and threaten to make it even worse.

Best regards,

Rick Sterling
As for the maths. There are mathematic 'theories' on both sides, they are not the same as mathematical facts. I asked for maths.

Mellsblue.
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