Squad for AIs

[Scrumhead]

I can see some potential positives.

Tuilagi is the obvious one as you’be pointed out.

We need a loosehead to replace Marler, so I’m hoping Moon and Hepburn go well. I’m actually expecting Moon to be a surprise hit.

Similarly we need to establish an alternative 6 to Robshaw. I’d prefer it to be Wilson, but if not, Shields or Rhodes (in that order of preference) have an opportunity to lay a marker down.

I also think it would be great if Morgan plays and puts in the kind of displays he’s capable of. He’s always looked better in Test rugby than domestic competition and if he can change Eddie’s mind, I’d much prefer to have him ahead of Hughes.

Other debutants like Mercer could also be a bonus.

[Stom]

Shields - if he shows his worth - could be good. BUT, there are others I'd be looking at post WC anyway, so why not go for Wilson anyway...

Mercer should be in the picture, he's a class act and only getting better and better.

Kruis finding some form again is very good for England.

Tuilagi back is a big boon for our midfield shape and options.

Farrell being seen as a 10 is a huge difference...

Cole being dropped is great.

Other than that...

Look, there are two very different teams lurking in that squad. The problem is that one is obviously progressive and Eddie has shown 0 inclination of wanting to play progressive rugby.

Which brings us neatly back to the most regressive possible team we can pick. We know what he likes:

Lineout options.
Setpiece "prowess"
Pace outwide and battering rams in midfield.

I think we're most likely therefore looking at both Shields and Rhodes playing in the backrow.
Kruis at 5.
Both Daly and May to start.
At least one, if not both of, Te'o and Tuilagi.

The only questions are which LHP, Whether it's Te'o AND Tuilagi or Te'o OR Tuilagi, Whether Daly is at 11 or 15 and who gets the 20 and 23 shirts.

I'm quite certain of the following:

Moon/Hepburn
Hartley (cc)
Williams
Itoje
Kruis
Shields/Rhodes
Rhodes/Curry
Morgan
Youngs
Farrell
Daly/May/Brown
Te'o/Slade
Tuilagi/Slade
May/Nowell/Ashton
Daly/Brown

George, Moon/Hepburn, Sinckler, Lawes/Ewels (injury permitting), Shields/Rhodes/Curry, Care, Ford, Brown/Nowell/Ashton

[Renniks]

I'm actually not too disappointed with the options IF:
- Itoje isn't at 6
- Curry is at 7
- Slade is starting in the centres
- Brown isn't on the wing

I'd prefer it if the starters included George, Wilson, a different nine, Ford, and May but actually the alternatives do have some merits too

[Puja]

I'm actually not too disappointed with the options IF:
- Itoje isn't at 6
- Curry is at 7
- Slade is starting in the centres
- Brown isn't on the wing

I'd prefer it if the starters included George, Wilson, a different nine, Ford, and May but actually the alternatives do have some merits too

It's a shame you have those specific requirements...

Puja

[fivepointer]

There could be loads of positives. On the other hand we could be a shower and register one win in four games.If we take the optimistic outlook, we will see winning ways restored with some outstanding individual performances. If we dont pick up significantly from last seasons 6N's and the SA tour, then our prospects appear bleak.
I'm not at all confident about the squad, feeling that we have missed a trick by ignoring players, and at the same time weakened with 4 key forwards being unavailable.
I'm really not sure how this series of games will pan out. I suspect we'll see some progress in one or two areas, and some reverses in others.
The SA game is arguably Eddie's most important one to date. Which makes it utterly key to our autumn and beyond.

[Renniks]

I'm actually not too disappointed with the options IF:
- Itoje isn't at 6
- Curry is at 7
- Slade is starting in the centres
- Brown isn't on the wing

I'd prefer it if the starters included George, Wilson, a different nine, Ford, and May but actually the alternatives do have some merits too

It's a shame you have those specific requirements...

Puja

Well, yes, when those 4 things aren't the case, I'll be miffed to say the least

[padprop]

Is Slade really worth still trying? He's had 13 caps now and his only half decent cameo has come at fullback. Thought he looked out of his depth in south africa, and that was in all three tests.

[Renniks]

Is Slade really worth still trying? He's had 13 caps now and his only half decent cameo has come at fullback. Thought he looked out of his depth in south africa, and that was in all three tests.

Ah, I should caveat that wanting Slade is only if Tuilagi / Te'o are starting too…

If it's Youngs, Ford, Farrell… Then I feel Slade will continue to look limited other than a good pass or two

(Basically, I don't want a line up with both Te'o and Tuilagi, or a line up with Farrell at 12…)

[Oakboy]

Is Slade really worth still trying? He's had 13 caps now and his only half decent cameo has come at fullback. Thought he looked out of his depth in south africa, and that was in all three tests.

I think that is a reasonable question. Taking into consideration a return from serious injury, some doubt over his best position and the suitability of his presence in a team not playing his sort of rugby, I share some doubts. Playing him at 13 with Youngs, Ford and Farrell does him no favours.

Conversely, this season, he looks significantly faster over the ground to the extent of being seriously quick. I think his defence has improved. He has always had superb hands and a booming boot. With Ford OR Farrell at 10 and with Tuilagi as a centre partner, I'd say he is worth one last chance. I'd prefer him at 12 with Tuilagi at 13 but can see some sense in them playing the other way round.

I like none of the alternatives. Farrell at 12 needs binning permanently. T'eo AND Tuilagi is just turgid. Daly is too good on the wing to consider at 13. Lozowski is likely to be suspended.

[Scrumhead]

Except Eddie’s interview last week suggested Daly is still being looked at as a fullback.

On the one hand, I think the injuries and the amount of uncertainty around the side make it a risk to continue that particular experiment. However, if it clicks for Daly, I think it solves what has been an ongoing problem/over reliance on Brown. When Watson is fit, a back three of May, Watson and Daly is a very attractive prospect.

[Puja]

Is Slade really worth still trying? He's had 13 caps now and his only half decent cameo has come at fullback. Thought he looked out of his depth in south africa, and that was in all three tests.

He's looked absolute mustard at 13 for Exeter so far this season, easily the best in the Premiership. However, he's only worth having if you give him a decent foil - you cannot have a midfield of three distributors. It has to be either Ford, Tuilagi, Slade or Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Is Slade really worth still trying? He's had 13 caps now and his only half decent cameo has come at fullback. Thought he looked out of his depth in south africa, and that was in all three tests.

He's looked absolute mustard at 13 for Exeter so far this season, easily the best in the Premiership. However, he's only worth having if you give him a decent foil - you cannot have a midfield of three distributors. It has to be either Ford, Tuilagi, Slade or Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi.

Puja

If Jones plays Slade, I suspect we will see him with Farrell and Tuilagi.

[Puja]

Is Slade really worth still trying? He's had 13 caps now and his only half decent cameo has come at fullback. Thought he looked out of his depth in south africa, and that was in all three tests.

He's looked absolute mustard at 13 for Exeter so far this season, easily the best in the Premiership. However, he's only worth having if you give him a decent foil - you cannot have a midfield of three distributors. It has to be either Ford, Tuilagi, Slade or Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi.

Puja

If Jones plays Slade, I suspect we will see him with Farrell and Tuilagi.

I am choosing to remain in denial about Ford's imminent dropping now that he's playing well, and I'll thank you to respect my religious beliefs!

Puja

[Oakboy]

I am choosing to remain in denial about Ford's imminent dropping now that he's playing well, and I'll thank you to respect my religious beliefs!

Puja

Amen! May that prayer be answered but I doubt the bookies will give you very good odds. Also, if we have to suffer Youngs, Ford and Farrell together again it will be your fault.

[francoisfou]

Except Eddie’s interview last week suggested Daly is still being looked at as a fullback.

On the one hand, I think the injuries and the amount of uncertainty around the side make it a risk to continue that particular experiment. However, if it clicks for Daly, I think it solves what has been an ongoing problem/over reliance on Brown. When Watson is fit, a back three of May, Watson and Daly is a very attractive prospect.

If Daly is selected at fullback against the Boks, then I hope Brown isn't on the wing. Eddie, however, will probably disappoint us!

[Puja]

Except Eddie’s interview last week suggested Daly is still being looked at as a fullback.

On the one hand, I think the injuries and the amount of uncertainty around the side make it a risk to continue that particular experiment. However, if it clicks for Daly, I think it solves what has been an ongoing problem/over reliance on Brown. When Watson is fit, a back three of May, Watson and Daly is a very attractive prospect.

If Daly is selected at fullback against the Boks, then I hope Brown isn't on the wing. Eddie, however, will probably disappoint us!

With May fit, and Nowell and Cokanasiga showing form, you'd really hope not.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

If Ford is dropped for Farrell, how long will it be before we realise we’re going nowhere in attack?

Ford has always done well when Farrell is absent but the evidence suggests it doesn’t work the other way round. Farrell’s status as the undroppable man holds us back.

If only we had other options at 12. Williams looks super promising but I doubt there’s enough time to force himself in to the reckoning and Mills is unfancied (very underrated IMO).

[fivepointer]

Farrell will be at 10, Te'o and Manu in the centre. I'm convinced of it.

[francoisfou]

Farrell will be at 10, Te'o and Manu in the centre. I'm convinced of it.

Nah, Eddie wouldn't do that, would he?

[TheNomad]

If Ford is dropped for Farrell, how long will it be before we realise we’re going nowhere in attack?

Ford has always done well when Farrell is absent but the evidence suggests it doesn’t work the other way round. Farrell’s status as the undroppable man holds us back.

If only we had other options at 12. Williams looks super promising but I doubt there’s enough time to force himself in to the reckoning and Mills is unfancied (very underrated IMO).

I think the reality is that we are indeed going nowhere in attack, and haven't been for some time. There was a brief time in Argentina, but that's it.

Crudely, he has always gone for 'prosaic' over 'attacking flair', which you can understand to an extent, but it really feels like he's missed a lot of opportunities.

Now, we find ourselves in a Catch 22, where it's tough to justify major changes because we're so close to a world cup...and yet you can't see this team getting anywhere without major changes.

We've got some great players but it's not going to happen with this manager

[Puja]

If Ford is dropped for Farrell, how long will it be before we realise we’re going nowhere in attack?

Ford has always done well when Farrell is absent but the evidence suggests it doesn’t work the other way round. Farrell’s status as the undroppable man holds us back.

If only we had other options at 12. Williams looks super promising but I doubt there’s enough time to force himself in to the reckoning and Mills is unfancied (very underrated IMO).

I think the reality is that we are indeed going nowhere in attack, and haven't been for some time. There was a brief time in Argentina, but that's it.

Crudely, he has always gone for 'prosaic' over 'attacking flair', which you can understand to an extent, but it really feels like he's missed a lot of opportunities.

Now, we find ourselves in a Catch 22, where it's tough to justify major changes because we're so close to a world cup...and yet you can't see this team getting anywhere without major changes.

We've got some great players but it's not going to happen with this manager

I actually don't mind Ford and Farrell as a 10/12. It's shown well in patches and on the South Africa tour, our backline attack was pretty much the only positive, until the last test where we broke it up and suddenly stopped looking dangerous.

I think it's unfair to say we're going nowhere in attack when that worked very well in the summer, even when nothing else did.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

I assume you’re replying to TheNomad?

I didn’t say our attack was going nowhere with Ford and Farrell, just when Farrell is at 10.

[Oakboy]

If Ford is dropped for Farrell, how long will it be before we realise we’re going nowhere in attack?

Ford has always done well when Farrell is absent but the evidence suggests it doesn’t work the other way round. Farrell’s status as the undroppable man holds us back.

If only we had other options at 12. Williams looks super promising but I doubt there’s enough time to force himself in to the reckoning and Mills is unfancied (very underrated IMO).

I think the reality is that we are indeed going nowhere in attack, and haven't been for some time. There was a brief time in Argentina, but that's it.

Crudely, he has always gone for 'prosaic' over 'attacking flair', which you can understand to an extent, but it really feels like he's missed a lot of opportunities.

Now, we find ourselves in a Catch 22, where it's tough to justify major changes because we're so close to a world cup...and yet you can't see this team getting anywhere without major changes.

We've got some great players but it's not going to happen with this manager

I actually don't mind Ford and Farrell as a 10/12. It's shown well in patches and on the South Africa tour, our backline attack was pretty much the only positive, until the last test where we broke it up and suddenly stopped looking dangerous.

I think it's unfair to say we're going nowhere in attack when that worked very well in the summer, even when nothing else did.

Puja

Puja, are you winding us up? Is it April 1? The three undroppables have rarely done well as a unit.

[Scrumhead]

Puja is right. The attack in the first two tests in SA was fairly good. Aside from one moment of magic from Cipriani, it wasn’t in the third test.

[Puja]

I think the reality is that we are indeed going nowhere in attack, and haven't been for some time. There was a brief time in Argentina, but that's it.

Crudely, he has always gone for 'prosaic' over 'attacking flair', which you can understand to an extent, but it really feels like he's missed a lot of opportunities.

Now, we find ourselves in a Catch 22, where it's tough to justify major changes because we're so close to a world cup...and yet you can't see this team getting anywhere without major changes.

We've got some great players but it's not going to happen with this manager

I actually don't mind Ford and Farrell as a 10/12. It's shown well in patches and on the South Africa tour, our backline attack was pretty much the only positive, until the last test where we broke it up and suddenly stopped looking dangerous.

I think it's unfair to say we're going nowhere in attack when that worked very well in the summer, even when nothing else did.

Puja

Puja, are you winding us up? Is it April 1? The three undroppables have rarely done well as a unit.

I will note that nowhere am I defending Youngs - he is currently dogsh*t and the cause of most of Leicester and England's problems.

I acknowledge Farrell's many, many flaws, but in the first two tests in South Africa, we scored 7 tries, with 6 of them coming from good play by the backs. And that was despite a forwards performance that could charitably be described as limp and being behind Youngs. That wasn't despite the Ford/Farrell axis, it was using it. It's not perfect, but when the other option is Fazlet at 10 and Bosh1/Bosh2 in the centres, I will take the f*ck out of Ford/Farrell.

If there is any reason to feel any hope for the autumn, it is that Wisemantel has taken up a permanent role (and the dream that our defensive flaws and general limpness havecompletely left with Gustard to join Harlequins) - our creative axis worked in South Africa and it is sad and depressing that we are rumoured to be changing it in favour of replacing the better of our duo with Sir Not Appearing For His Club at 12.

And yes Scrumhead, I was referring to TheNomad. You just got caught up in quoting madness.

Puja