England vs South Africa

[Puja]

Team announced at 11.30am. Anyone else amazed that there's not even been a whisper of a leak about the starting lineup? Time was, you knew the XV two days before it was announced, but now we haven't even got who's been running with whom in training.

Puja

[Digby]

I've been sent the team, but I'm assuming I've been sent a windup as George is starting and the person sending the text whilst well placed to know the side knows well and is amused if not bemused by my take on Hartley

[fivepointer]

Seen the odd speculation that Tuilagi will be on bench with Te'o and Slade in the centre. Some reports have Shields at 8, others have Mercer in the frame. Ashton may be in, or he may be out.

[Mellsblue]

Seen the odd speculation that Tuilagi will be on bench with Te'o and Slade in the centre. Some reports have Shields at 8, others have Mercer in the frame. Ashton may be in, or he may be out.

That clears that up then.

[fivepointer]

Seen the odd speculation that Tuilagi will be on bench with Te'o and Slade in the centre. Some reports have Shields at 8, others have Mercer in the frame. Ashton may be in, or he may be out.

That clears that up then.

Glad I could help out.

[Mikey Brown]

Has Te'o ever played well starting at international level?

I mean I'd be happy to see it, because he has the skills and would be a good foil at 12, but I can't remember it happening.

[TheDasher]

I'm annoyed with myself that I'm so interested. Eddie has to be one of the worst selectors in modern sport. But then Burt was also useless, Andy Robinson was useless etc etc.

Thinking about the midfield... if you look at some good partnerships, like, Darcy and O'Driscoll, Roberts and O'Driscoll (Lions), Roberts and Davies, Nonu and Smith, can't we just go back to having a direct, hard running 12 and a quicker, slightly more creative 13? Isn't it that simple? Can we stop fucking around with two or even three fly-halves standing in a row. Please Eddie.

And now that he's made the utterly insane decision to drop Morgan, please can we not pick a fcking blindside at 8 and just pick Mercer?

I am genuinely concerned at what kind of line-up we're going to be discussing 7 minutes from now.

[Mikey Brown]

LOL. Just checked the England Rugby twitter to see if the team was up. The banner is a picture of Eddie with the phrase "own the unexpected". What in the fucking, shitting fuck is that supposed to mean? Doesn't bode well for the team.

[TheDasher]

LOL. Just checked the England Rugby twitter to see if the team was up. The banner is a picture of Eddie with the phrase "own the unexpected". What in the fucking, shitting fuck is that supposed to mean? Doesn't bode well for the team.

It's all a load of shit. I love all of that England rugby marketing crap when we're winning, but when we're useless, it's too infuriating.

[TheDasher]

Team announced at 11.30am. Anyone else amazed that there's not even been a whisper of a leak about the starting lineup? Time was, you knew the XV two days before it was announced, but now we haven't even got who's been running with whom in training.

Puja

Perhaps nobody really cares anymore...

[Mellsblue]

Here it is:

[Puja]

Hepburn
Hartley
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Shields
Curry
Wilson

Youngs
Farrell
May
Te'o
Slade
Nowell
Daly

Moon, George, Williams, Ewels, Mercer, Care, Ford, Tuilagi

[Mikey Brown]

Trying to be positive; only 2 locks, an actual 7, Wilson gets a go, a direct runner in midfield, a bench that could potentially do a whole heap of damage.

[Mellsblue]

Wtf has Teo done to deserve this starting jersey?!?!? It truly baffles me.

[Mikey Brown]

Wtf has Teo done to deserve this starting jersey?!?!? It truly baffles me.

Kiwi/SH, league background, injured- the Bermuda Triumvirate of EJ's selection policy.

[Which Tyler]

As good as could be hoped TBH.
Te'o's yet to impress as an international starter (and hasn't played in 6 months).
Slade's yet to impress as an international player.

BUT...

We know all we're going to know about Ford / Farrell midfield; and Manu needs to be eased back in from the bench (psychologically, that is).
Yes, I'd rather Ford were given first shot with 2 actual centres; but we all know he'll never be picked ahead of a fit Farrell.

Also - only 2 locks starting is a big relief; and whilst Zach is the closest thing the squad has to a #8 - the 20 shirt is where he belongs for this window.

[TheDasher]

Wtf has Teo done to deserve this starting jersey?!?!? It truly baffles me.

I rate Teo, so don't want to give him a hard time because he's good. But I totally agree, wtf has he been? Is he any fitter than Manu? Manu has played more games than Teo this season right? So if we want some hard running at 12, and we're picking someone coming back from injury, why not pick Manu there?

[Raggs]

Fitness may be why he's starting. Let him go as long as he can, and take him off when he's blown.

[Puja]

Initial thought is thank f*ck we've not picked Te'o and Manu together, nor is Itoje at 6. So let's be grateful.

However, the rest of it is baffling. Wilson is not bigger than Mercer and isn't an 8. Shields is an 8, but is in no kind of form. The only possible reason to keep Youngs over Care is to keep a club 9/10 combo, which has now been broken because we're dropping Ford now that he's finally in form. We're picking Te'o, who has played 29 minutes, presumably because Manu's not got enough games under his belt? There's no back three cover on the bench and I'm baffled as to what happens if Daly gets injured. Slade at 15? May?!

I am thanking heavens for small mercies, but that is mostly because my expectations were set so abysmally low.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

why not pick Manu there?

I can see some logic there - Manu hasn't properly played a test match in what? 4 years? He's amassed 15 minutes under Eddie Jones. With all the come-backs hes had to make in that time; he really doesn't need the added pressure of being the media-messiah.

Beyond that, if there's a question-mark over someone's match-fitness; I'd always rather they started than benched - that wasy they can be replaced when necessary, rather than having to stay on once their lugs have gone.

[Puja]

Wtf has Teo done to deserve this starting jersey?!?!? It truly baffles me.

I rate Teo, so don't want to give him a hard time because he's good. But I totally agree, wtf has he been? Is he any fitter than Manu? Manu has played more games than Teo this season right? So if we want some hard running at 12, and we're picking someone coming back from injury, why not pick Manu there?

Manu has played all but one of Leicester's games this season. Te'o has had 29 minutes off the bench the other week. We're not picking someone back from injury with Manu now - he's just playing.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I imagine it's Slade covering 15. I still have this odd desire to see Nowell at fullback but that's not particularly helpful with no winger on the bench and him not having played there in about 5 years.

I'm looking forward to the intended 55-60 minute introduction of Ford/Manu and every midfield player changing at once, presumably with Farrell back to 12.

[Mikey Brown]

Are we assuming Nowell is going to be defending one of SA's ridiculously quick wingers?

[twitchy]

So we have what one player that can carry in the forwards vs a pack of complete animals. I can't really see us getting any thing from this game. Lots of heroic last ditch tackles probably a load of injuries and a loss.

[TheDasher]

Despite most of us obviously disagreeing with so much of EJ's selections, if you forget all players not picked, and the other options that were available, it's not actually a bad side if taken in isolation. Hepburn is incredibly busy and hardworking, the back-row won't get bitched around and will cover serious ground, the second rows work, 10, 12, 13 fit together fairly well in terms of skill-sets and the back three isn't bad.

It's not a side that will get hammered by anyone imv, but it also won't win very often against top sides.