The 15 shirt

[Scrumhead]

After Daly’s poor showing on Saturday, we have a bit of a conundrum at 15.

I’m torn. On the one hand, I do think it’s worth persevering with Daly at 15 (for reasons I’ll come on to in a minute), but on the other, I can see potential for a whole host of misery coming our way if he’s picked at 15 this weekend and I’d be sorely tempted to bring Brown back in to the side.

The case for keeping Daly at 15 is as follows:

1) We can’t rely solely on Brown.

Clearly Brown is not quite the player he was and it would be risky to rely on him being fit with no experienced back up.

2) Daly is a smart player.

A year or so ago, I (along with a good few others here) couldn’t see the sense in moving him to wing, but he’s shown he has the ability and adaptability to switch positions. Given time, I’d back him to do the same at 15 and I do believe he has the qualities to be successful in the role.

3) What are the actual alternatives?

Watson is injured and there’s no guarantee he’ll make the 6 Nations. If he’s fit for the World Cup, it’s a big ask for him to slot straight in at 15. I know he’s played there a decent amount for Bath, but he’s looked uncomfortable there on the handful of occasions he’s done so for England (Ireland in the 6N springs to mind ...).

Eddie has shown no interest whatsoever in recalling Goode and there’s absolutely no sign of that happening now.

Woodward doesn’t appear to be of sufficient interest. I like him as a player and I would have given him a shot, but considering he’s not in the squad now, I’d be amazed if he made it in to the 6 Nations squad.

Other outside possibilities are moving Lozowski or Slade to 15, but with such limited time I just don’t see it being an option.

If I were Eddie, I’d recall Brown for NZ and then bring Daly back for Japan and Australia (a risk against Folau/DHP, I know).

Worrying that the options coming through from a longer term perspective don’t look all that promising either. There’s Mallinder, Parton at London Irish and that’s about it really.

[Mikey Brown]

Eddie has really put himself in a tough position. As you say he's clearly had little interest in Goode/Woodward and I imagine is simply too stubborn to look at them now even if he'd like too.

He waited so long to try this with Daly that he's now either got to commit to it for a while and hope he adapts or rely on Watson comes back firing with Daly able to shift back to the wing. Or I get a few years younger all of a sudden.

I could accept being dropped a little easier if it wasn't essentially for Nowell.

It's brilliant that he drops me just as he has geared this recent team towards kick tennis. Maybe Daly just had a bad day, he's certainly brave, but you'd think he's got be playing 15 every week from now on if we want him to nail his positioning.

[Digby]

Two choices for me as things stand, Daly and Lozowski, so really only one choice with days left before playing the clear number one team

[Stom]

Given time, Daly will be good there. Plus Watson is a very good FB. If he had managed a run of games for England, he'd be the nailed on 15 by now.

Plus, a back 3 of May, Daly, Watson would be both exciting and electric. Would we have ever fielded a faster back 3?

I don't see much problem.

What about Olowofela (sp?)? Is he a fb who plays wing or a wing who plays fb?

[Puja]

I'd stick with Daly. If we want to use him there, he has to learn and it's more important than the NZ match. Plus, I think he will already have learned - he's a smart and motivated player and won't be happy with his game last week. I'll bet he plays well the weekend.

You can add Olowofela to the potantial 15s list as well.

Puja

[Stom]

I'd stick with Daly. If we want to use him there, he has to learn and it's more important than the NZ match. Plus, I think he will already have learned - he's a smart and motivated player and won't be happy with his game last week. I'll bet he plays well the weekend.

You can add Olowofela to the potantial 15s list as well.

Puja

You're 2 minutes too late for that...

[Timbo]

Yeah, i’m also happy to stick with Daly. With Watson to come back into the fb mix when fit. Brown is decent insurance behind those two. With Daly’s and Watson’s ages hopefully those two could take us through to the 2023 World Cup.

The noises coming from Dai Young suggest that Daly is likely to be moved to fullback full time when Le Roux leaves.

[Tigersman]

So everyone agrees it's time to reunite Ben Foden and Chris Ashton.

[fivepointer]

If Daly was the right choice in SA, then we really have to stick with him now. I think until he fully settles into the position we are going to have to accept some of his positional play and contesting the high ball may not be of the highest standard. He can improve.
The disappointment on Saturday was his work in attack. Its here that he really needs to step up and make a big difference. After all, its the reason he has displaced Brown so we've got to see him making a far greater impact.

[p/d]

Lozowski

[Peej]

Lozowski based on what though? He's probably 4th choice full back at Sarries

[Mellsblue]

If I were Eddie, I’d recall Brown for NZ and then bring Daly back for Japan and Australia (a risk against Folau/DHP, I know).

As much as it pains me, I'd go for this. I think Daly could be a great fullback (long term preference is Watson with Daly and May on the wings) but playing against NZ isn't the place to learn. He's not dominant enough under the high ball, understandably, and a NZ bombardment and a resultant big loss may set him back.

[p/d]

Lozowski based on what though? He's probably 4th choice full back at Sarries

based on the fact he is a class act who plays heads up rugby and has looked very assured at fb for Sarries. Clearly needs game time to make his case but has to be as good if not better option than Wasps outside centre

[Mikey Brown]

Seems a bit odd to throw the fact Daly plays 13 for his club in as an argument for Lozowski. If anything he's started more consistently in the centres this year than Daly has.

[Raggs]

When did loz last play fullback for sarries? Last time i remember he was pretty poor.

Wish Daly had stuck to 15 when first moved there.

[Scrumhead]

Given time, Daly will be good there. Plus Watson is a very good FB. If he had managed a run of games for England, he'd be the nailed on 15 by now.

Plus, a back 3 of May, Daly, Watson would be both exciting and electric. Would we have ever fielded a faster back 3?

I don't see much problem.

What about Olowofela (sp?)? Is he a fb who plays wing or a wing who plays fb?

The problem is that Daly hasn’t yet shown signs of getting to grips with the position. He seemed to look good on the wing almost instantly in comparison, but I guess there are more complexities at 15.

I agree that a back three of May, Watson and Daly has he potential to be very exciting so as I said in the OP I’m definitely in favour of persevering with the experiment. I’m just a little worried about doing it against NZ.

I must admit I forgot about Olowofela who has looked very good very quickly for Leicester.

[Raggs]

From what I've understood Mitchell also has us playing in a new defensive setup which puts more pressure on the fullback, so it may be Daly has a lot to think about.

[Mikey Brown]

Also I think his defensive position on the wing was outstanding. Even with not much experience there he just seemed to get it.

[CONVEX HULL]

Lozowski isn't available due to the malicious/incompetent idiots at EPCR.

[Lizard]

Have you checked the Super Rugby rosters for a fullback with a Granny from Norfolk?

[Spiffy]

I was never all that keen on Goode. But for the past couple of seasons he has played very well for Sarries; hardly ever has an off game; is not lightening fast but makes up for it with good footwork and rugby smarts. In the absence of Watson, he looks about the best England FB and probably deserves a run. But he won't get one, since that would mean Jones admitting he was wrong. If it's not going to happen, then bring back Brown, the kind of spiky competitor needed against the ABs.

[Scrumhead]

Brown’s not in the squad vs. NZ so Daly will need to step it up a good few gears!

[Oakboy]

Daly at FB is on a par with Itoje or Lawes at 6. If there is no alternative, it has to be. IMO, Daly will never be an outstanding FB. He does not have the physical stature/mental devil-may-care aptitude for the high ball. International FBs without that are always vulnerable. It is a position where 75 minutes of solidity and 5 minutes flakiness just does not cut it.

Conversely, Daly, IMO, is right up there with the very best as a winger. He is certainly England's best and I was advocating him there before he was picked. I'm a Nowell fan but he is not in the same class as an out-and-out try-scoring winger. None of the others are up with Daly, though May is good.

Starting Daly at FB with Brown on the wing in SA was an admission that Daly was iffy in the shirt.

Watson is the long-term FB in waiting, once fit. Rather than waste our best winger out of position, why not try our 3rd/4th best, Nowell, at FB? He would have more physical and mental presence under the high ball, as would Slade.

[Raggs]

How do you know that Slade would have a more physical and mental presence than Daly?

[p/d]

None of Slade, Daly or Nowell are better fb's than Brown or Goode. Potentially one might become so, but this close to the WC just think we need to have one of those covering fb rather than starting there.

Jones run of success came with Brown at fb, much to the question marks raised by the press (and a few of us)