England vs New Zealand

[Bloggs]

Daily Fail are reporting Curry is out for the rest of the Autumn. No news on any other call ups.

Chris Jones reporting that Borthwick is a little coy on Underhill coming in, saying Wilson and Mercer can play across the back row.

We're going to see Shields - Wilson - Mercer start on Saturday, with Rhodes off the bench, aren't we...

[Mikey Brown]

Daily Fail are reporting Curry is out for the rest of the Autumn. No news on any other call ups.

Rugby insideline will be telling us Curry is out of the NZ test any day now.

[Puja]

Daily Fail are reporting Curry is out for the rest of the Autumn. No news on any other call ups.

Chris Jones reporting that Borthwick is a little coy on Underhill coming in, saying Wilson and Mercer can play across the back row.

We're going to see Shields - Wilson - Mercer start on Saturday, with Rhodes off the bench, aren't we...

I wouldn't mind Shields-Wilson-Mercer myself. At least it's not Shields-Wilson-Rhodes.

Puja

[Oakboy]

I wouldn't mind Shields-Wilson-Mercer myself. At least it's not Shields-Wilson-Rhodes.

Puja

I don't want Rhodes or Shields but I'd much prefer Wilson-Rhodes-Mercer than any combination involving Shields.

[Timbo]

Other players to look away from a suitable standard in the backrow include Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, Lawes, Itoje, Shields, Underhill, Hughes and I'm sure I'm missing some other obvious examples. So being good enough isn't much of a factor whereas unlike most of that list Ben comes with a lot of potential

The single most fundamental prerequisite as a test match backrower is physicality on the tackle line and ruck. None of those players you’ve listed lack that. Ben at this stage of his career does(apparently, cos I probably only watch about 5 Sale games a season).

So if some players aren't good enough and aren't going to develop it's still the better decision to pick them and accept we're at best a very limited side to watch?

It's one way to look at sport, albeit for my money overly conservative and even downright joyless

2 points;

“Not good enough”...has to be set in the context of England winning a grand slam with Haskell and Robshaw at 6/7 and the year after winning the 6N’s with Lawes and Tom Wood at 6/7. That’s reasonably significant.

Secondly, there has to be a line drawn somewhere. As talented as Ben is, if he’s not up to it physically the team will suffer and so might the player.

All that said, I agree with Scrumhead in that I’ve never watched them and thought Ben suffers in comparison to Tom in any respect. But there are good judges who disagree.

[fivepointer]

I'd be happy with Wilson-Underhill-Mercer but i guess that aint gonna happen.

[Digby]

The single most fundamental prerequisite as a test match backrower is physicality on the tackle line and ruck. None of those players you’ve listed lack that. Ben at this stage of his career does(apparently, cos I probably only watch about 5 Sale games a season).

So if some players aren't good enough and aren't going to develop it's still the better decision to pick them and accept we're at best a very limited side to watch?

It's one way to look at sport, albeit for my money overly conservative and even downright joyless

2 points;

“Not good enough”...has to be set in the context of England winning a grand slam with Haskell and Robshaw at 6/7 and the year after winning the 6N’s with Lawes and Tom Wood at 6/7. That’s reasonably significant.

Secondly, there has to be a line drawn somewhere. As talented as Ben is, if he’s not up to it physically the team will suffer and so might the player.

All that said, I agree with Scrumhead in that I’ve never watched them and thought Ben suffers in comparison to Tom in any respect. But there are good judges who disagree.

The gramdslam under Eddie felt like some of the better 6N efforts under Lancaster, poor albeit not piss poor performances that happened to result in wins but wouldn't do so against one of the big teams or a side playing well

[fivepointer]

Eddie Jones has retained 25 players to continue England’s preparation for their second Test of the Quilter Internationals against New Zealand at Twickenham Stadium on Saturday (KO 3pm live on Sky Sports HD).

Sale Sharks flanker Tom Curry will remain in camp while his ankle is assessed further. Earlier on Tuesday, forwards coach Steve Borthwick confirmed Curry would miss the remainder of the Quilter Internationals with England also playing Japan and Australia later in November.

The Harlequins pair Joe Marchant and Nathan Earle will train with the squad on Wednesday before being released back to their club. Alex Lozowski (Saracens) will also stay in camp until later in the week.

Forwards
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) co-captain, Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens) co-captain, George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

[Peej]

I just don't get the hype around Underhill

[Renniks]

Underhill being retained is reassuring

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Lawtoje at 6 though
Or two locks on the bench (with shields, Wilson, mercer)

[Mikey Brown]

His tackling is just insane. Is it just that he doesn't do enough outside of that? He's still very young. He's shown glimpses of being much better (or more consistently effective) in attack and at the breakdown in the last year when he's actually been fit for a few games in a row. Fitness has been my main issue with him.

[Mellsblue]

I think he’s pilfered quite a lot of ball this year.

[Scrumhead]

He has, but the more encouraging thing for me is that he’s shown he can carry/run a decent line and has an offload in his locker.

His problem is that he was overhyped too early and the promise he’s actually shown isn’t quite on the scale it was expected to be.

He reminds me a bit of Sam Cane as a powerful, confrontational 7 who’s got enough a whiff of 6.5 for people to grumble.

[Puja]

No Rhodes! I'm starting to think he's only in the EPS so we'll be delighted when he's left out and will ignore all the other problems.

Puja

[twitchy]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ew-zealand


Isn't it weird that immediately brad turned up in england he was infected with the english virus of being terrible.Was he just returning to his roots? Is it just some aura of being in NZ that permeates from the volcanic soil that gives them their super hero status?

Why do we have such bad luck? Why is our whole team always injured? Answers on a post card.

[Digby]

Is it of value to seek comments from the jamboree contingent on the depths sought to win 15 Vs 14 when the Lions were oddly allowed to stand so far offside?

[Puja]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... -underhill

Guardian seem confident that Underhill's going to slot in in place of Curry. However, they also say that "Ashton impressed off the bench against the Springboks" and I genuinely don't remember him touching the ball, so it's possible they've been smoking something.

Puja

[p/d]

Mail reporting same regards Underhill

Suggesting Lawes back on bench and the highly impressive and charismatic Ashton to strike fear into the heart of the NZ defence

[Puja]

Mail reporting same regards Underhill

Suggesting Lawes back on bench and the highly impressive and charismatic Ashton to strike fear into the heart of the NZ defence

I thought Nowell played pretty well against South Africa. Although I suppose there's an argument that he got fairly well rinsed by Ioane the last time the two met, but it's not like Ashton's a defensive colossus...

I've just had a horrible thought. We're all assuming Daly at 15 because Brown's out the squad. But Ashton's been playing full-back...

Puja

[p/d]

I really like Nowell and think he had a good game. Be happy with him covering FB ................. I reckon Jones has an eye on reuniting the Farrell/Ashton combo, though Te'o will need to up his game somewhat to make it effective.

[Spiffy]

Mail reporting same regards Underhill

Suggesting Lawes back on bench and the highly impressive and charismatic Ashton to strike fear into the heart of the NZ defence

I thought Nowell played pretty well against South Africa. Although I suppose there's an argument that he got fairly well rinsed by Ioane the last time the two met, but it's not like Ashton's a defensive colossus...

I've just had a horrible thought. We're all assuming Daly at 15 because Brown's out the squad. But Ashton's been playing full-back...

Puja

Fair play to Nowell for his all action, never say die style of play and total comittment to the cause. You can see he is a pain in the arse to play against. Unfortunately, for an international wing, he lacks one of the most essential ingredients - real gas. This was evident against SA, where he had a couple of chances to get around his marker but never remotely looked as though he could do it. Likewise, Ashton also lacks gas. He was overhauled by Ford a couple of times in the England v. Barbarians game last year. He is also not a powerful defender. He is a good tracker of the ball and will score tries at club level, but international rugby is a different kettle of fish.

[Lizard]

NZ team named:

1. Karl Tu'inukuafe (10)
2. Codie Taylor (39)
3. Owen Franks (104)
4. Samuel Whitelock (106)
5. Brodie Retallick (72)
6. Liam Squire (21)
7. Ardie Savea (32)
8. Kieran Read - captain (115)
9. Aaron Smith (80)
10. Beauden Barrett (70)
11. Rieko Ioane (21)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (50)
13. Jack Goodhue (5)
14. Ben Smith (74)
15. Damian McKenzie (20)

16. Dane Coles (57)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (23)
18. Nepo Laulala (14)
19. Scott Barrett (26)
20. Matt Todd (15)
21. TJ Perenara (52)
22. Richie Mo'unga (5)
23. Ryan Crotty (42)

[richy678]

NZ team named:

1. Karl Tu'inukuafe (10)
2. Codie Taylor (39)
3. Owen Franks (104)
4. Samuel Whitelock (106)
5. Brodie Retallick (72)
6. Liam Squire (21)
7. Ardie Savea (32)
8. Kieran Read - captain (115)
9. Aaron Smith (80)
10. Beauden Barrett (70)
11. Rieko Ioane (21)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (50)
13. Jack Goodhue (5)
14. Ben Smith (74)
15. Damian McKenzie (20)

16. Dane Coles (57)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (23)
18. Nepo Laulala (14)
19. Scott Barrett (26)
20. Matt Todd (15)
21. TJ Perenara (52)
22. Richie Mo'unga (5)
23. Ryan Crotty (42)

F##k.
No big names there.
Gonna be a hard day at the office on Saturday.
errr....look at the number of caps on the bench......

[Lizard]

NZ team named:

1. Karl Tu'inukuafe (10)
2. Codie Taylor (39)
3. Owen Franks (104)
4. Samuel Whitelock (106)
5. Brodie Retallick (72)
6. Liam Squire (21)
7. Ardie Savea (32)
8. Kieran Read - captain (115)
9. Aaron Smith (80)
10. Beauden Barrett (70)
11. Rieko Ioane (21)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (50)
13. Jack Goodhue (5)
14. Ben Smith (74)
15. Damian McKenzie (20)

16. Dane Coles (57)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (23)
18. Nepo Laulala (14)
19. Scott Barrett (26)
20. Matt Todd (15)
21. TJ Perenara (52)
22. Richie Mo'unga (5)
23. Ryan Crotty (42)

F##k.
No big names there.
Gonna be a hard day at the office on Saturday.
errr....look at the number of caps on the bench......

I dunno. Our loosehead is an ex-bouncer who only went pro about 5 minutes ago. We’ve got to try and get 25-30 minutes out of a reserve hooker just back from injury. We’re so short of loosies that we’ve broken our own rule about not selecting overseas-based players. Our 10 can’t kick goals and our 12 is a yellow waiting to happen. Thirteen is another beginner. We’ve got a fullback on the wing and a 10 at fullback. There’s no back 3 cover so any change there will require a reshuffle. Smith and Barrett can cover full back but if a wing goes down, I guess we’ll have to put SBW out there?

England have no excuses against this dog’s breakfast.

[francoisfou]

NZ team named:

1. Karl Tu'inukuafe (10)
2. Codie Taylor (39)
3. Owen Franks (104)
4. Samuel Whitelock (106)
5. Brodie Retallick (72)
6. Liam Squire (21)
7. Ardie Savea (32)
8. Kieran Read - captain (115)
9. Aaron Smith (80)
10. Beauden Barrett (70)
11. Rieko Ioane (21)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (50)
13. Jack Goodhue (5)
14. Ben Smith (74)
15. Damian McKenzie (20)

16. Dane Coles (57)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (23)
18. Nepo Laulala (14)
19. Scott Barrett (26)
20. Matt Todd (15)
21. TJ Perenara (52)
22. Richie Mo'unga (5)
23. Ryan Crotty (42)

F##k.
No big names there.
Gonna be a hard day at the office on Saturday.
errr....look at the number of caps on the bench......

I dunno. Our loosehead is an ex-bouncer who only went pro about 5 minutes ago. We’ve got to try and get 25-30 minutes out of a reserve hooker just back from injury. We’re so short of loosies that we’ve broken our own rule about not selecting overseas-based players. Our 10 can’t kick goals and our 12 is a yellow waiting to happen. Thirteen is another beginner. We’ve got a fullback on the wing and a 10 at fullback. There’s no back 3 cover so any change there will require a reshuffle. Smith and Barrett can cover full back but if a wing goes down, I guess we’ll have to put SBW out there?

England have no excuses against this dog’s breakfast.

So with that motley crew of a side, NZ's margin of victory will be less than 30.