Owen Farrell

[Which Tyler]

Appears to be taking over a few threads at the moment, with an awful lot of people defending him from attack, and erm... nobody actually attacking him.

Are we that blind and set in our preconceptions, that virtually everyone has credited him with continued improvement, and reaching somewhere between "competent" and "genuinely good" that he needs to be defended from these vicious attacks by people who've spotted him missing a tackle, or missing a kick, or considering him to be less than world class?

Can someone point out to me the unremitting criticism that he needs to be defended from? Or those posters who are unremitting in their criticism of him? Or even just 1 poster that wouldnt take him to Japan for example?
I strongly suspect that I'm one of these unremitting critics of his, who actively wants him starting at IC, and thinks he's a genuinely good option there, best in the country try, amongst the best I s in the world.

[Oakboy]

WT, I'm about fed up with the subject but I'd pick him at 10, not 12, for the reasons I've just mentioned on the 'team for Aus' thread.

[Stom]

I'd have him 12 every day of the week in this England team.

Though I'd love to see Eastmond back in an England shirt.

[TheDasher]

Appears to be taking over a few threads at the moment, with an awful lot of people defending him from attack, and erm... nobody actually attacking him.

Are we that blind and set in our preconceptions, that virtually everyone has credited him with continued improvement, and reaching somewhere between "competent" and "genuinely good" that he needs to be defended from these vicious attacks by people who've spotted him missing a tackle, or missing a kick, or considering him to be less than world class?

Can someone point out to me the unremitting criticism that he needs to be defended from? Or those posters who are unremitting in their criticism of him? Or even just 1 poster that wouldnt take him to Japan for example?
I strongly suspect that I'm one of these unremitting critics of his, who actively wants him starting at IC, and thinks he's a genuinely good option there, best in the country try, amongst the best I s in the world.

Go back to the SA thread, then the NZ thread, he gets criticised a lot... And there aren't an awful lot of people defending him either, seemingly me and Rich.

For me, he's not the answer to our centres conundrum, and I too would play him at 10 over Ford with Ford as our bench option.

[Digby]

I'd only consider him at 10 and I'd pick Ford

[Stom]

I think you're confusing criticism with being attacked.

If we're not allowed to criticise England players, we may as well all go home. We're not playing well enough for that to remotely be the case.

Most people would prefer Ford at 10 because, and this is not attacking Farrell to be clear, his skills as an OH are just a lot better. No one is saying Farrell is terrible. We do say his passing stunts any attempt at backs play. Which, well, it kinda does. It's a fair criticism.

Attacking would be saying he looks like an utter mong when he kicks for goal. But no one has been saying that for years.

Attacking would be saying my gran could play better. That insult is reserved specifically for our collection of sticks of veggies at SH.

There is a difference between criticism and attack.

[TheDasher]

Can we think of another player to create a thread for who we'd all enjoy discussing? This Farrell thing is exhausting no?

Or bring back the good old days when we'd all fall out with the Welsh on RR, hwtn or whatever his name was, get him back involved.

[Renniks]

Where's all the threads on the england back-row gone?!

[Stom]

Youngs, Banahan, Noon, Goode, Hodgson, Marler, Kruis, Hughes... These are all players we've argued over many a time.

Why is Farrell different? Why are we not allowed to criticise him?

[Stom]

Where's all the threads on the england back-row gone?!

When you're down to 3.5 fit players, it's kinda hard to argue

[TheDasher]

Where's all the threads on the england back-row gone?!

Don't you mean 'where has jngf gone?'

He was the man for back-row threads.

Perhaps we're knackered with Eddie full-stop. There's little point in arguing Kvesic's case for selection on the internet when you know that 100% he won't be picked I guess. Mind you, perhaps Underhill and Curry have killed that topic anyway.

[Digby]

Can we think of another player to create a thread for who we'd all enjoy discussing? This Farrell thing is exhausting no?

Or bring back the good old days when we'd all fall out with the Welsh on RR, hwtn or whatever his name was, get him back involved.

Nobody should want him involved, that's like wanting to hear from Rowan

[TheDasher]

Youngs, Banahan, Noon, Goode, Hodgson, Marler, Kruis, Hughes... These are all players we've argued over many a time.

Why is Farrell different? Why are we not allowed to criticise him?

Again, go back over all posts from the past few weekends and Farrell is hammered on here, page after page of it. All the while generally the mood should be quite good (we beat SA and nearly beat NZ) and Farrell has added more to proceedings than many others have.

No doubt you disagree.

[TheDasher]

Can we think of another player to create a thread for who we'd all enjoy discussing? This Farrell thing is exhausting no?

Or bring back the good old days when we'd all fall out with the Welsh on RR, hwtn or whatever his name was, get him back involved.

Nobody should want him involved, that's like wanting to hear from Rowan

Oh that rings a bell, which one was Rowan again?

[Digby]

Can we think of another player to create a thread for who we'd all enjoy discussing? This Farrell thing is exhausting no?

Or bring back the good old days when we'd all fall out with the Welsh on RR, hwtn or whatever his name was, get him back involved.

Nobody should want him involved, that's like wanting to hear from Rowan

Oh that rings a bell, which one was Rowan again?

I'm tempted to direct you to some of his posts, but I can’t bring myself to actually do that. It's on a par with Vogon poetry, or maybe Banquo

[TheDasher]

Nobody should want him involved, that's like wanting to hear from Rowan

Oh that rings a bell, which one was Rowan again?

I'm tempted to direct you to some of his posts, but I can’t bring myself to actually do that. It's on a par with Vogon poetry, or maybe Banquo

Haha, very good.

Who was the Portuguese (I think, maybe a Brit living in Portugal) chap many years ago (want to say 10 years ago) who was extremely aggressive and suggested meeting up to sort out these debates face to face? Anyone remember him?

[p/d]

Best 10 we have.

[Renniks]

What happened to Marcus Smith?

[Which Tyler]

Youngs, Banahan, Noon, Goode, Hodgson, Marler, Kruis, Hughes... These are all players we've argued over many a time.

Why is Farrell different? Why are we not allowed to criticise him?

Again, go back over all posts from the past few weekends and Farrell is hammered on here, page after page of it. All the while generally the mood should be quite good (we beat SA and nearly beat NZ) and Farrell has added more to proceedings than many others have.

No doubt you disagree.

Any actual quotes? I remember a lot of criticism about specific action, or general trends, typically backed up with reasoned arguments (or reference to previous arguments).
I don't recall any attacks, unfounded criticisms or negativity that wasn't backed up with specific examples.

Unless your idea of Farrell being attacked is that someone had the temerity to suggest he isn't world class, and the first name on the team sheet; the I want actual examples.


And no "do my research for me" isn't going to convince anyone.


For the record of have Farrell as first choice IC for England, 3rd choice FH
I think he's great at getting the best put of his teammates (Ford aside), but terrible at talking to the ref, and poor at the calmer, tactical decisions of a captain.
His passing has improved from being a liability to being decent, but prone to mistakes (which stills makes his passing better than our SHs). He's a good tackler, but a dodgy defender as he lacks discipline. His carrying is I proving, but he still doesn't interest defenders - he's become better at identifying that, and waltzing through the occasional gaping hole defences leave him.
Given his current rate of improvement, he's on course to present an actual threat ball-in-hand in time for the RWC, though the effectiveness of that threat remains to be seen (he'll never be a wrecking ball, sublime distributor, or beat a man with his footwork; but he's getting to the point where he can reach the gainline and provide quickish possession)

[WaspInWales]

I think you're confusing criticism with being attacked.

If we're not allowed to criticise England players, we may as well all go home. We're not playing well enough for that to remotely be the case.

Most people would prefer Ford at 10 because, and this is not attacking Farrell to be clear, his skills as an OH are just a lot better. No one is saying Farrell is terrible. We do say his passing stunts any attempt at backs play. Which, well, it kinda does. It's a fair criticism.

Attacking would be saying he looks like an utter mong when he kicks for goal. But no one has been saying that for years.

Attacking would be saying my gran could play better. That insult is reserved specifically for our collection of sticks of veggies at SH.

There is a difference between criticism and attack.

This.

My main issue, is not so much with Farrell (who as I have stated has been an integral part of England's success in recent years), but more with how the press revere him. As a result, many people seem unable to cope with the idea that people can be critical about aspects of his play.

That stats don't lie. He does miss quite a few tackles, he does miss kicks and make mistakes, but if we were to judge him on what is written, he'd be world class on the back of scoring some pens, putting in a few big hits and firing the occasional well timed pass.

[WaspInWales]

Youngs, Banahan, Noon, Goode, Hodgson, Marler, Kruis, Hughes... These are all players we've argued over many a time.

Why is Farrell different? Why are we not allowed to criticise him?

Can you remember the shit Ashton (PFC) used to get and now he's back in an England shirt?

It's almost like we've been a part of that success

[Peat]

I'd personally agree that by and large the mood here highlights the negatives with Farrell and doesn't loudly celebrate the positives. I think that's a fair cop. Most people here will say nice things about him if challenged - and mean it - but that doesn't mean the mood isn't more negative than positive.

Not sure what else it's ever going to be with a media that is the polar opposite to a degree that has most of us routinely questioning our mental faculties. You'd have to have the will of a saint not to get influenced by that. I kinda feel bad about that sometimes but then I see something that'd have you believe Farrell is the next Wilkinson and there's no way I feel bad enough, or like Faz enough, not to criticise that.

*shrugs* Is what it is.

Where's all the threads on the england back-row gone?!

Don't you mean 'where has jngf gone?'

He was the man for back-row threads.

Perhaps we're knackered with Eddie full-stop. There's little point in arguing Kvesic's case for selection on the internet when you know that 100% he won't be picked I guess. Mind you, perhaps Underhill and Curry have killed that topic anyway.

Yeah, jngf wouldn't care that there were no options left. He'd made that thread anyway.

[Mellsblue]

I'd personally agree that by and large the mood here highlights the negatives with Farrell and doesn't loudly celebrate the positives. I think that's a fair cop. Most people here will say nice things about him if challenged - and mean it - but that doesn't mean the mood isn't more negative than positive.

Not sure what else it's ever going to be with a media that is the polar opposite to a degree that has most of us routinely questioning our mental faculties. You'd have to have the will of a saint not to get influenced by that. I kinda feel bad about that sometimes but then I see something that'd have you believe Farrell is the next Wilkinson and there's no way I feel bad enough, or like Faz enough, not to criticise that.

*shrugs* Is what it is.

Where's all the threads on the england back-row gone?!

Don't you mean 'where has jngf gone?'

He was the man for back-row threads.

Perhaps we're knackered with Eddie full-stop. There's little point in arguing Kvesic's case for selection on the internet when you know that 100% he won't be picked I guess. Mind you, perhaps Underhill and Curry have killed that topic anyway.

Yeah, jngf wouldn't care that there were no options left. He'd made that thread anyway.

I’ve said somewhere that if Farrell bulked up and grew a few inches he’d make a great blindside. If that didn’t draw jngf out nothing will.

[Renniks]

I’ve said somewhere that if Farrell bulked up and grew a few inches he’d make a great blindside. If that didn’t draw jngf out nothing will.

He's taller than Neil Back - maybe with some bulking he could be an open-side instead?

Maybe not the link man we're all after with his passing - definitely an option as a 6.5 though

[TheDasher]

Best 10 we have.

Do you mean this or am missing something?