Brexit delayed

[Digby]

Theresa hasn't decided they all need to work together, she wants them all to agree with her. Thus she rules out the customs union before talks. Labour is demanding no deal be taken off the table before they commence talks. Both sides blame the other

Still Theresa has just gone on TV to announce essentially she knows where her towell is, she's providing strong and stable leadership and there's no need to panic - as long as we all agree with her. Further she might not be talking to the official opposition but she has been talking to Pie eyed Cymru, which is nice

[cashead]

They've got like, what, 2 months until the due date. I'm sure whatever they come up with now is going to be properly thought out, researched and tested. Yep.

[Sandydragon]

So Corbyn gets invited to number 10 and decides to play politics instead. The SNP and Lib Dema do attend however.

At what point will more of the public realise Corbyn isn’t up to it? Now really is the time for a good opposition leader to take the initiative. Instead, he refuses to negotiate.

[Sandydragon]

I can or could understand May trying to treat brexit as a party political issue, okay I thought it was stupid but I'm far less concerned than she is about the relevance and even survival of the Conservative party.

However following the biggest defeat pretty much ever, other contenders really only being those leaders too gutless to put their ideas to a vote, to still be holding to your red lines before any cross party talks is perverse, a waste of time, and frankly an abdication of dury

Agreed. Time for red lines to be off the table. Worryingly, some Tory MPs want an election which is something we have plenty of time for of course.

[Digby]

I can or could understand May trying to treat brexit as a party political issue, okay I thought it was stupid but I'm far less concerned than she is about the relevance and even survival of the Conservative party.

However following the biggest defeat pretty much ever, other contenders really only being those leaders too gutless to put their ideas to a vote, to still be holding to your red lines before any cross party talks is perverse, a waste of time, and frankly an abdication of dury

Agreed. Time for red lines to be off the table. Worryingly, some Tory MPs want an election which is something we have plenty of time for of course.

Instead of red lines coming off the table May has reaffirmed hers and Corbyn introduced his, I suspect many consider Corbyn is doing his bit to avoid taking a position on the 2nd referendum

SNP are likely to follow Corbyn in wanting no deal taken off the table, Lib Dems too but that's less serious

[cashead]

A couple of pieces from The Onion

Fed-Up EU Rejects United Kingdom, Gives British 30 Days To Vacate Europe

BRUSSELS—Saying they were tired of getting jerked around by some “has-been pseudo-monarchy,” fed-up European Union officials rejected the United Kingdom Tuesday and gave the British people 30 days to vacate Europe. “Listen, we’re so goddamn sick of this nonsense—grab your stuff and get the hell out,” said European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker, adding that the U.K.’s 66 million inhabitants could “go kick rocks” for all he cared, but they couldn’t do it in Europe. “Seriously, we gave you bastards over two years to make a decision and you came up with jack shit—so guess what? Now we’re making the decision for you. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Later, assholes.” At press time, Britain had reportedly begun contacting former colonies in search of a place to crash.

[Stom]

So Corbyn gets invited to number 10 and decides to play politics instead. The SNP and Lib Dema do attend however.

At what point will more of the public realise Corbyn isn’t up to it? Now really is the time for a good opposition leader to take the initiative. Instead, he refuses to negotiate.

The SNP have not attended.

I think it's perfectly fair to say: we will not waste more time when your red lines, that make a deal impossible, remain in place. If you want our opinions and a debate, you need to give some ground...

[Digby]

So Corbyn gets invited to number 10 and decides to play politics instead. The SNP and Lib Dema do attend however.

At what point will more of the public realise Corbyn isn’t up to it? Now really is the time for a good opposition leader to take the initiative. Instead, he refuses to negotiate.

The SNP have not attended.

I think it's perfectly fair to say: we will not waste more time when your red lines, that make a deal impossible, remain in place. If you want our opinions and a debate, you need to give some ground...

They're both culpable, Theresa for saying her red lines stand and trying to keep it a party political issue, Jeremy for introducing his red line that no deal must be off the table before talks commence and trying to keep his party out of the politics

[Stom]

So Corbyn gets invited to number 10 and decides to play politics instead. The SNP and Lib Dema do attend however.

At what point will more of the public realise Corbyn isn’t up to it? Now really is the time for a good opposition leader to take the initiative. Instead, he refuses to negotiate.

The SNP have not attended.

I think it's perfectly fair to say: we will not waste more time when your red lines, that make a deal impossible, remain in place. If you want our opinions and a debate, you need to give some ground...

They're both culpable, Theresa for saying her red lines stand and trying to keep it a party political issue, Jeremy for introducing his red line that no deal must be off the table before talks commence and trying to keep his party out of the politics

If Corbyn had said we want no Brexit...this probably would be over by now. Sigh.

[Digby]

The SNP have not attended.

I think it's perfectly fair to say: we will not waste more time when your red lines, that make a deal impossible, remain in place. If you want our opinions and a debate, you need to give some ground...

They're both culpable, Theresa for saying her red lines stand and trying to keep it a party political issue, Jeremy for introducing his red line that no deal must be off the table before talks commence and trying to keep his party out of the politics

If Corbyn had said we want no Brexit...this probably would be over by now. Sigh.

But he views the EU as the enemy of socialism and Russia/USSR, so it's no surprise he actively wants out of the Imperialist capitalistic lackey of the evil USA

[Digby]

Cross party talks, including Labour, have commenced. But none of the Labour front bench will be present to present a united public vision of their purity of purpose. Mythical deity give me strength.

The 2nd vote on this will be Jan 29th as per Leadsome. For the MPs it's one vote good two votes better, for the public it's one vote good, two votes a betrayal of democracy. I did like the Led by Donkeys poster with Rees-Mogg calling for a 2nd referendum, in no way has he changed his tune being a man of integrity

[canta_brian]

So Corbyn gets invited to number 10 and decides to play politics instead. The SNP and Lib Dema do attend however.

At what point will more of the public realise Corbyn isn’t up to it? Now really is the time for a good opposition leader to take the initiative. Instead, he refuses to negotiate.

The SNP have not attended.

I think it's perfectly fair to say: we will not waste more time when your red lines, that make a deal impossible, remain in place. If you want our opinions and a debate, you need to give some ground...

Agree with you on this. Those criticising Corbin in this instance are dead wrong. May tried to force her deal through by saying it was better than a hard brexit, saying that a bad deal is better than no deal. She now won’t rule out the no deal option and seems to just want another go at pushing her deal whilst pretending to be engaged in negotiations.

[Stom]

So Corbyn gets invited to number 10 and decides to play politics instead. The SNP and Lib Dema do attend however.

At what point will more of the public realise Corbyn isn’t up to it? Now really is the time for a good opposition leader to take the initiative. Instead, he refuses to negotiate.

The SNP have not attended.

I think it's perfectly fair to say: we will not waste more time when your red lines, that make a deal impossible, remain in place. If you want our opinions and a debate, you need to give some ground...

Agree with you on this. Those criticising Corbin in this instance are dead wrong. May tried to force her deal through by saying it was better than a hard brexit, saying that a bad deal is better than no deal. She now won’t rule out the no deal option and seems to just want another go at pushing her deal whilst pretending to be engaged in negotiations.

Well indeed. I know some people like to criticise Corbyn for everything, but he's got enough problems because of his stance on Brexit, let's let him be right when he's right.

[Mellsblue]

Difficult to take no deal off the table when that’s the legal default, at present.

It’s almost as if Corbyn wants a hard Brexit - chaos - blame Cons - GE - form govt - implement his economic model that wouldn’t be allowed under single market rules.

[Mellsblue]

Also difficult to understand Corbyn refusing to enter talks when he repeatedly, after talking to Hammas/Hezbollah/IRA, states talking is the only way to solve disagreement.

Unless, of course.......

[canta_brian]

Also difficult to understand Corbyn refusing to enter talks when he repeatedly, after talking to Hammas/Hezbollah/IRA, states talking is the only way to solve disagreement.

Unless, of course....... Hammas/Hezbollah/IRA are less dogmantically attached to their unpalatable doctrines than Maybot

FTFY

[Digby]

The SNP have not attended.

I think it's perfectly fair to say: we will not waste more time when your red lines, that make a deal impossible, remain in place. If you want our opinions and a debate, you need to give some ground...

Agree with you on this. Those criticising Corbin in this instance are dead wrong. May tried to force her deal through by saying it was better than a hard brexit, saying that a bad deal is better than no deal. She now won’t rule out the no deal option and seems to just want another go at pushing her deal whilst pretending to be engaged in negotiations.

Well indeed. I know some people like to criticise Corbyn for everything, but he's got enough problems because of his stance on Brexit, let's let him be right when he's right.

Those criticising Corbyn in this instance are dead right,and probably to the right of Corbyn, but who isn't?

But it's not only Corbyn who's wrong, May is too

[Mellsblue]

Also difficult to understand Corbyn refusing to enter talks when he repeatedly, after talking to Hammas/Hezbollah/IRA, states talking is the only way to solve disagreement.

Unless, of course....... Hammas/Hezbollah/IRA are less dogmantically attached to their unpalatable doctrines than Maybot

FTFY

Right. The doctrines of terrorist groups are less dogmatic and more palatable than May’s redlines on Brexit. The Brexit vortex has swallowed us whole.

[Mellsblue]

Agree with you on this. Those criticising Corbin in this instance are dead wrong. May tried to force her deal through by saying it was better than a hard brexit, saying that a bad deal is better than no deal. She now won’t rule out the no deal option and seems to just want another go at pushing her deal whilst pretending to be engaged in negotiations.

Well indeed. I know some people like to criticise Corbyn for everything, but he's got enough problems because of his stance on Brexit, let's let him be right when he's right.

Those criticising Corbyn in this instance are dead right,and probably to the right of Corbyn, but who isn't?

But it's not only Corbyn who's wrong, May is too

Absolutely. Unfortunately, we have two people in charge of the govt and the official opposition who are fanatical in their belief that only they know nbest. We shouldn’t be surprised. One believes in a mythical thing that created the earth despite there being literally no evidence it/he/she exists and the other believes in a political and economic model that has literally never worked.

[canta_brian]

Also difficult to understand Corbyn refusing to enter talks when he repeatedly, after talking to Hammas/Hezbollah/IRA, states talking is the only way to solve disagreement.

Unless, of course....... Hammas/Hezbollah/IRA are less dogmantically attached to their unpalatable doctrines than Maybot

FTFY

Right. The doctrines of terrorist groups are less dogmatic and more palatable than May’s redlines on Brexit. The Brexit vortex has swallowed us whole.

To be fair, my comment was a little facetious. However I only made it as a response to yet another moronic post that cannot mention Corbyn without parroting the right wing press line regardless of the context.

There has been plenty to criticise Corbyn on over the brexit debates without talking about events that have been debunked elsewhere.

[Mellsblue]

FTFY

Right. The doctrines of terrorist groups are less dogmatic and more palatable than May’s redlines on Brexit. The Brexit vortex has swallowed us whole.

To be fair, my comment was a little facetious. However I only made it as a response to yet another moronic post that cannot mention Corbyn without parroting the right wing press line regardless of the context.

There has been plenty to criticise Corbyn on over the brexit debates without talking about events that have been debunked elsewhere.

Sorry if I missed the fact you were being facetious. However, I think the point is valid. His defence for meeting terrorist organisations is that dialogue is the only way to solve issues yet it seems too much to ask on this occasion. If he thinks he’s persuasive enough to stop Hamas killing people (I assume that’s what he’s aiming to achieve) I’m sure he thinks he can persuade May to ditch no deal without it being a pre-condition of talks.
In reality, what does taking no deal off the table achieve? Nobody in that room would want no deal. It’s not as if its May’s end game. She has already agreed a deal, so she clearly doesn’t want no deal. Unless he thinks she’s going to trick both herself and him and Cable in to agreeing to no deal and then trick half of parliament, too.

[canta_brian]

Right. The doctrines of terrorist groups are less dogmatic and more palatable than May’s redlines on Brexit. The Brexit vortex has swallowed us whole.

To be fair, my comment was a little facetious. However I only made it as a response to yet another moronic post that cannot mention Corbyn without parroting the right wing press line regardless of the context.

There has been plenty to criticise Corbyn on over the brexit debates without talking about events that have been debunked elsewhere.

Sorry if I missed the fact you were being facetious. However, I think the point is valid. His defence for meeting terrorist organisations is that dialogue is the only way to solve issues yet it seems too much to ask on this occasion. If he thinks he’s persuasive enough to stop Hamas killing people (I assume that’s what he’s aiming to achieve) I’m sure he thinks he can persuade May to ditch no deal without it being a pre-condition of talks.
In reality, what does taking no deal off the table achieve? Nobody in that room would want no deal. It’s not as if its May’s end game. She has already agreed a deal, so she clearly doesn’t want no deal. Unless he thinks she’s going to trick both herself and him and Cable in to agreeing to no deal and then trick half of parliament, too.

She may have agreed a deal but as of Tuesday that deal no longer exists. Taking no deal off the table would show that she is ready to talk about the format of any new deal without some sword of Damocles hanging over the proceedings. It also forces her to consider the time frame and to consider an appropriate delay to leaving.

[Mellsblue]

To be fair, my comment was a little facetious. However I only made it as a response to yet another moronic post that cannot mention Corbyn without parroting the right wing press line regardless of the context.

There has been plenty to criticise Corbyn on over the brexit debates without talking about events that have been debunked elsewhere.

Sorry if I missed the fact you were being facetious. However, I think the point is valid. His defence for meeting terrorist organisations is that dialogue is the only way to solve issues yet it seems too much to ask on this occasion. If he thinks he’s persuasive enough to stop Hamas killing people (I assume that’s what he’s aiming to achieve) I’m sure he thinks he can persuade May to ditch no deal without it being a pre-condition of talks.
In reality, what does taking no deal off the table achieve? Nobody in that room would want no deal. It’s not as if its May’s end game. She has already agreed a deal, so she clearly doesn’t want no deal. Unless he thinks she’s going to trick both herself and him and Cable in to agreeing to no deal and then trick half of parliament, too.

She may have agreed a deal but as of Tuesday that deal no longer exists. Taking no deal off the table would show that she is ready to talk about the format of any new deal without some sword of Damocles hanging over the proceedings. It also forces her to consider the time frame and to consider an appropriate delay to leaving.

It doesn’t matter whether her deal is dead or not (though I doubt she thinks it needs anything more than a bit of tweaking) it’s her intent that is the issue. She doesn’t want no deal and never has. What is the point of her saying no deal is off the table if, in reality, it will never be on the table. It’s just games from Corbyn. Cable has been in for a chat, and he’s a committed Europhile and leader of a party who ran on a manifesto promising to keep the UK in the EU. Corbyn, on the other hand, is the exact opposite.

[Stones of granite]

Honestly, it’s hard to know which is the bigger bunch of fuckwits.
This is part of a recent advertising campaign by Labour’s North British branch office.

8991FCFA-F9BC-4F75-8D81-E5ED3EA42363.jpeg

The sharper of our Welsh posters might recognise it.

[fivepointer]

No deal is the default position and will happen on 29 March unless something else is agreed, either we accept the current deal or extend A50 for a revised deal omitting red lines, a GE or referendum. That is of course if the EU 27 agree to an extension. That extension is unlikely to go beyond July.
Whoever voted for A50 to be triggered have set in train events without pre condition and without knowing the destination. They were all monumentally stupid.
No deal cannot be taken of the table until something is put in its place. That needs to happen PDQ.
Right now we have a rigid PM incapable of shifting her position and a LOTO unwilling to go with the majority view in his party and with a growing number of the public and press for a 2nd vote.
What have we done to deserve such catastrophically bad people to be leading our major parties at this moment of dire national emergency?