Exeter vs Wasps

[twitchy]

Any one see the game? I thought exe were very good, wasps seemed a bit off. Nowell looked great

[fivepointer]

Caught the last 20 odd minutes but will watch the whole game later.

Exe looked well in control. I think the commentary said that Wasps only got into the Exeter 22 in the last 10 minutes. From what I saw, Exeter contained them very well.

[Oakboy]

It was a massive physical defence by Exeter - allied with a sharp tactical approach which negated Smith especially and Wasps' back-row generally. Every time Smith looked to get on the ball he was cleared out (early and illegally on some occasions, arguably) or tackled. Ewers had a great match and Baxter's decision to pick Armand at 8 instead of Waldrom was instrumental in establishing the defensive base that stifled Wasps.

That's not to say that Exeter were only defensive. Their backs were ruthless when it counted. Nowell was excellent and anybody who still claims that he does not have real pace is denying the evidence of their own eyes. Slade's hands are simply splendid and his all-round game is nearly back to its best.

It was a hard competitive contest rather than a spectacle.

[I R Geech]

Exeter were pretty on it today, organised, committed, and lively. Wasps, just like last week, just looked a bit knackered and uncreative. They are in danger of finishing a great season on a whimper, and I can't help but look at Gopperth as the architect of both lame performances. Too often he looks like he's trying to win it himself rather than moving the team around the pitch or opening up the backs. Looking forward to Cips getting here.

[Banquo]

It was a massive physical defence by Exeter - allied with a sharp tactical approach which negated Smith especially and Wasps' back-row generally. Every time Smith looked to get on the ball he was cleared out (early and illegally on some occasions, arguably) or tackled. Ewers had a great match and Baxter's decision to pick Armand at 8 instead of Waldrom was instrumental in establishing the defensive base that stifled Wasps.

That's not to say that Exeter were only defensive. Their backs were ruthless when it counted. Nowell was excellent and anybody who still claims that he does not have real pace is denying the evidence of their own eyes. Slade's hands are simply splendid and his all-round game is nearly back to its best.

It was a hard competitive contest rather than a spectacle.

Nowell does not have real top end place, he is elusive and has good acceleration (18 carries for 26 yards shows some story- great work rate and tidying), and he is a good finisher. He did play well, coming of his wing to good effect- but he always has done well at club level.

Exeter won the back row battle comfortably, nullifying Smith, and Hughes went awol, disappointingly. Slade's hands were indeed good, I really want to see him defend at 12- he'll be fine, but I want to see it-- I'd also like some more breaks.

Exeter outplayed Wasps tactically, especially at the breakdown.

[p/d]

Exeter were very good. Defensively right on it and used the ball at the right times. Their mauling game though was well contained without Waldron.

Wasps indeed were disappointing and seem to not have a Plan B.

As for Nowell he did play well, but I'd be surprised if he made one pass.

[Spiffy]

It was a massive physical defence by Exeter - allied with a sharp tactical approach which negated Smith especially and Wasps' back-row generally. Every time Smith looked to get on the ball he was cleared out (early and illegally on some occasions, arguably) or tackled. Ewers had a great match and Baxter's decision to pick Armand at 8 instead of Waldrom was instrumental in establishing the defensive base that stifled Wasps.

That's not to say that Exeter were only defensive. Their backs were ruthless when it counted. Nowell was excellent and anybody who still claims that he does not have real pace is denying the evidence of their own eyes. Slade's hands are simply splendid and his all-round game is nearly back to its best.

It was a hard competitive contest rather than a spectacle.

Nowell does not have real top end place, he is elusive and has good acceleration (18 carries for 26 yards shows some story- great work rate and tidying), and he is a good finisher. He did play well, coming of his wing to good effect- but he always has done well at club level.

Exeter won the back row battle comfortably, nullifying Smith, and Hughes went awol, disappointingly. Slade's hands were indeed good, I really want to see him defend at 12- he'll be fine, but I want to see it-- I'd also like some more breaks.

Exeter outplayed Wasps tactically, especially at the breakdown.

He is not an out and out flier but he's not that bad. He was matching C. Piutau, himself no slouch, in chasing his own chip ahead, with neither gaining on the other. I think his tough, hard grafting style, with always 100% comittment, is a good foil on the England wing for the more mercurial Watson on the other side. He does have a nose for the line too and is hard to stop from close range.

EDIT : Would agree with p/d above that he could use the ball better.

[p/d]

Agree with that Spiffy.

I think he is the sort of player that is hard not to like.

[Banquo]

Exeter were very good. Defensively right on it and used the ball at the right times. Their mauling game though was well contained without Waldron.

Wasps indeed were disappointing and seem to not have a Plan B.

As for Nowell he did play well, but I'd be surprised if he made one pass.

He does what he always does- he's a effective club player, works hard, tidies up, beats players. His defence isn't top notch, his pace isn't top end. He's a good club player. Just because I'd like something more at international level, doesn't mean I can't see what he brings to the party, nor that he's ok if there is no-one better.

[Banquo]

It was a massive physical defence by Exeter - allied with a sharp tactical approach which negated Smith especially and Wasps' back-row generally. Every time Smith looked to get on the ball he was cleared out (early and illegally on some occasions, arguably) or tackled. Ewers had a great match and Baxter's decision to pick Armand at 8 instead of Waldrom was instrumental in establishing the defensive base that stifled Wasps.

That's not to say that Exeter were only defensive. Their backs were ruthless when it counted. Nowell was excellent and anybody who still claims that he does not have real pace is denying the evidence of their own eyes. Slade's hands are simply splendid and his all-round game is nearly back to its best.

It was a hard competitive contest rather than a spectacle.

Nowell does not have real top end place, he is elusive and has good acceleration (18 carries for 26 yards shows some story- great work rate and tidying), and he is a good finisher. He did play well, coming of his wing to good effect- but he always has done well at club level.

Exeter won the back row battle comfortably, nullifying Smith, and Hughes went awol, disappointingly. Slade's hands were indeed good, I really want to see him defend at 12- he'll be fine, but I want to see it-- I'd also like some more breaks.

Exeter outplayed Wasps tactically, especially at the breakdown.

He is not an out and out flier but he's not that bad. He was matching C. Piutau, himself no slouch, in chasing his own chip ahead, with neither gaining on the other. I think his tough, hard grafting style, with always 100% comittment, is a good foil on the England wing for the more mercurial Watson on the other side. He does have a nose for the line too and is hard to stop from close range.

EDIT : Would agree with p/d above that he could use the ball better.

yay...not that bad...that's sealed the deal in the search for a world class winger!

[Spiffy]

Exeter were very good. Defensively right on it and used the ball at the right times. Their mauling game though was well contained without Waldron.

Wasps indeed were disappointing and seem to not have a Plan B.

As for Nowell he did play well, but I'd be surprised if he made one pass.

He does what he always does- he's a effective club player, works hard, tidies up, beats players. His defence isn't top notch, his pace isn't top end. He's a good club player. Just because I'd like something more at international level, doesn't mean I can't see what he brings to the party, nor that he's ok if there is no-one better.

Of the current England XV, you could probably say the same of Marler, Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Youngs and maybe Brown.

[Banquo]

Exeter were very good. Defensively right on it and used the ball at the right times. Their mauling game though was well contained without Waldron.

Wasps indeed were disappointing and seem to not have a Plan B.

As for Nowell he did play well, but I'd be surprised if he made one pass.

He does what he always does- he's a effective club player, works hard, tidies up, beats players. His defence isn't top notch, his pace isn't top end. He's a good club player. Just because I'd like something more at international level, doesn't mean I can't see what he brings to the party, nor that he's ok if there is no-one better.

Of the current England XV, you could probably say the same of Marler, Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Youngs and maybe Brown.

yes...and?

I'd like rid of most if not all of those....you seem to have missed my point.

[Beasties]

Wasps breakdown work isn't a patch on mid season. Exeter were voracious in defence and secured their own ball in attack. Wasps couldn't work out how to get through or round them. I'd love to know why no one attempts a little chip or grubber against these onrushing defences. Has to be worth trying a couple of times, especially when you're getting nowhere banging your head against a brick wall. Exeter were well in control of that match.

[Galfon]

Exeter keep turning up..another excellent team effort.
Nowell stands out at club level.
He's also had 3 good 6N's now ( 11 wins from 13 starts, 5 tries ) with consistently good showings.
That makes him a good international in my book..though he's yet to be truly tested against the world's best.
At 23 he should be in the mix for a while yet.

[Spiffy]

He does what he always does- he's a effective club player, works hard, tidies up, beats players. His defence isn't top notch, his pace isn't top end. He's a good club player. Just because I'd like something more at international level, doesn't mean I can't see what he brings to the party, nor that he's ok if there is no-one better.

Of the current England XV, you could probably say the same of Marler, Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Youngs and maybe Brown.

yes...and?

I'd like rid of most if not all of those....you seem to have missed my point.

I think I may have. You have to spell it out for me. Is Nowell currently worth his spot on the England team or not - given his past England form? Bearing in mind that any other wing picked to replace him will also be selected on club form. Who would you select ahead of him at the moment and on what basis? ( I am not raving about Nowell - just interested to know what you think. Until recently I did not rate him highly,and still see his deficiencies. But, as the whole package, he is slowly winning me over, mostly by the uncompromising way he plays the game. I think he is a positive influence on his temmates at both club and international level.)

[Oakboy]

Maybe Banquo's point is that Nowell is just about the best winger available to England but that doesn't make him that special. In top international terms there can be no argument apart from the issue of how good he can become if he continues to improve.

IMO, he provides a good balance as long as we have a flyer on the other wing and a FB with pace and counter-attacking prowess. For me, that means that Nowell works with May and Watson, for example and also with Watson and Brown if Brown is at his best. I would hesitate to pick Nowell if Roko, Yarde or Goode were involved because there has to be extra gas somewhere. I think Nowell is quicker than many claim but he is not up with May or Watson.

[Puja]

He is not an out and out flier but he's not that bad. He was matching C. Piutau, himself no slouch, in chasing his own chip ahead, with neither gaining on the other.

I recall getting ridiculed by some on this board for suggesting that Nowell was of a pace with Piutau. He is definitely faster than people believe.

Puja

[Nightynight]

Maybe Banquo's point is that Nowell is just about the best winger available to England but that doesn't make him that special. In top international terms there can be no argument apart from the issue of how good he can become if he continues to improve.

IMO, he provides a good balance as long as we have a flyer on the other wing and a FB with pace and counter-attacking prowess. For me, that means that Nowell works with May and Watson, for example and also with Watson and Brown if Brown is at his best. I would hesitate to pick Nowell if Roko, Yarde or Goode were involved because there has to be extra gas somewhere. I think Nowell is quicker than many claim but he is not up with May or Watson.

This works for me and I agree Nowell wouldn't be in my squad if we have Roko & Yarde on the other wing. Goode however wouldn't be in my squad full stop with other 15 options unless Brown cannot get any form back and even then I would be tempted to play May/Watson as a swapping pair of 15's

[Which Tyler]

I recall getting ridiculed by some on this board for suggesting that Nowell was of a pace with Piutau. He is definitely faster than people believe.

Puja

I just have this image in my head from the 6N - against Wales IIRC; of Nowell chasing a kick deep; being skinned by Brown, and then both being skinned by Youngs.

Nowell is a fantastic rugby player; he just doesn't have international wing-level pace. Had Exeter played him at 13 or 15 for the last couple of years he'd probably be my first choice for England - or at least presenting a genuine challenge to JJ and Daly.

Having said that, I'm a fan of positions having absolute requirements that simply have to be filled.
A prop has to be good in the scrum
A hooker has to be a reliable thrower
Locks have to be masters of either the lineout or the maul (preferably both)
BSF have to be destructive/workhorse tacklers
OSF have to rule the ruck

SH has to be able to pass the ball and boss the pack
FH has to read and control the game
Centres have to have a balance between distribution, pace and bosh
Wingers have to have top-end pace, ideally alongside acceleration over 3m
FB has to be a rock under the high ball, and a solid last line of defense.

Things beyond that are nice; but however good someone is at the secondary requirements, and absence of the above simply cannot be covered (at the top level).

[Mellsblue]

I recall getting ridiculed by some on this board for suggesting that Nowell was of a pace with Piutau. He is definitely faster than people believe.

Puja

I just have this image in my head from the 6N - against Wales IIRC; of Nowell chasing a kick deep; being skinned by Brown, and then both being skinned by Youngs.

Nowell is a fantastic rugby player; he just doesn't have international wing-level pace. Had Exeter played him at 13 or 15 for the last couple of years he'd probably be my first choice for England - or at least presenting a genuine challenge to JJ and Daly.

Having said that, I'm a fan of positions having absolute requirements that simply have to be filled.
A prop has to be good in the scrum
A hooker has to be a reliable thrower
Locks have to be masters of either the lineout or the maul (preferably both)
BSF have to be destructive/workhorse tacklers
OSF have to rule the ruck

SH has to be able to pass the ball and boss the pack
FH has to read and control the game
Centres have to have a balance between distribution, pace and bosh
Wingers have to have top-end pace, ideally alongside acceleration over 3m
FB has to be a rock under the high ball, and a solid last line of defense.

Things beyond that are nice; but however good someone is at the secondary requirements, and absence of the above simply cannot be covered (at the top level).

This pretty much sums it up for me. I think Nowell doesn't have the top end pace and, for all his other attributes, this means I'd have him down the pecking order. Just as for all the good things Younds does his passing means he shouldn't be playing for Eng.

[Beasties]

He is not an out and out flier but he's not that bad. He was matching C. Piutau, himself no slouch, in chasing his own chip ahead, with neither gaining on the other.

I recall getting ridiculed by some on this board for suggesting that Nowell was of a pace with Piutau. He is definitely faster than people believe.

Puja

I wouldn't get too carried away, Piutau has looked like he's carrying an injury the last few weeks.

[Puja]

He is not an out and out flier but he's not that bad. He was matching C. Piutau, himself no slouch, in chasing his own chip ahead, with neither gaining on the other.

I recall getting ridiculed by some on this board for suggesting that Nowell was of a pace with Piutau. He is definitely faster than people believe.

Puja

I wouldn't get too carried away, Piutau has looked like he's carrying an injury the last few weeks.

Hah! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to suggest that Piutau had slowed down!

Puja

[Banquo]

Maybe Banquo's point is that Nowell is just about the best winger available to England but that doesn't make him that special. In top international terms there can be no argument apart from the issue of how good he can become if he continues to improve.

IMO, he provides a good balance as long as we have a flyer on the other wing and a FB with pace and counter-attacking prowess. For me, that means that Nowell works with May and Watson, for example and also with Watson and Brown if Brown is at his best. I would hesitate to pick Nowell if Roko, Yarde or Goode were involved because there has to be extra gas somewhere. I think Nowell is quicker than many claim but he is not up with May or Watson.

Nearly right .

[Banquo]

I recall getting ridiculed by some on this board for suggesting that Nowell was of a pace with Piutau. He is definitely faster than people believe.

Puja

I wouldn't get too carried away, Piutau has looked like he's carrying an injury the last few weeks.

Hah! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to suggest that Piutau had slowed down!

Puja

well he definitely isn't 100% fit.

[Banquo]

Of the current England XV, you could probably say the same of Marler, Hartley, Robshaw, Haskell, Youngs and maybe Brown.

yes...and?

I'd like rid of most if not all of those....you seem to have missed my point.

I think I may have. You have to spell it out for me. Is Nowell currently worth his spot on the England team or not - given his past England form? Bearing in mind that any other wing picked to replace him will also be selected on club form. Who would you select ahead of him at the moment and on what basis? ( I am not raving about Nowell - just interested to know what you think. Until recently I did not rate him highly,and still see his deficiencies. But, as the whole package, he is slowly winning me over, mostly by the uncompromising way he plays the game. I think he is a positive influence on his temmates at both club and international level.)

He wasn't very good in the last two 6N games, missed a host of tackles and was all over the place in defence.

I don't think I could be, or have been much clearer, Nowell is one of many players in the england squad who are pretty average compared to the very best in the world, and as a national side, we have to aspire to get better.