Saracens vs Leicester

[Digby]

I'm left baffled as to why Murphy's been given a long-term contract. Granted, the players available are hardly a vintage team, but we look structureless in both attack and defence. No-one seems sure what the player inside him is doing - epitomised by our wonderful attacking move earlier of passing the ball back three times, losing 20m until finally Dan Cole got it standing still in midfield and got absolutely thumped a long way behind the rest of the pack.

Puja

If you pass the ball going back 20m seems nothing in the face of the blitz, 30-40m back can be done very easily. teams not wanting to accept that means we get to enjoy lots of box kicks

That's not to say you want a stationary tight five forward on the end of a pass, but the 20m back part seems just how it is

[Puja]

I'm left baffled as to why Murphy's been given a long-term contract. Granted, the players available are hardly a vintage team, but we look structureless in both attack and defence. No-one seems sure what the player inside him is doing - epitomised by our wonderful attacking move earlier of passing the ball back three times, losing 20m until finally Dan Cole got it standing still in midfield and got absolutely thumped a long way behind the rest of the pack.

Puja

If you pass the ball going back 20m seems nothing in the face of the blitz, 30-40m back can be done very easily. teams not wanting to accept that means we get to enjoy lots of box kicks

That's not to say you want a stationary tight five forward on the end of a pass, but the 20m back part seems just how it is

That only works if you have a plan for going round the outside or otherwise disarranging the defence to make the ground back up. We just passed the ball backwards and hoped the next person along had an idea of what to do with it.

Puja

[Tigersman]

I think the current Leicester forwards are the worst in the professional era. Whoever assembled the group needs shafting.

2 of them have been binned.
Just Ged left but he seems to be made of Teflon.

I think Tigers is the perfect case of shocking planning, especially in recruitment.
Letting go of players with no real replacement lined up.
Letting go off Betham mid contract never made any sense for example, Malouf was a good player but was raw and wasn't as versatile as Betham.
May for JPP made sense but we had no real Slater replacement lined up....
Mauger letting go off Parling and Salvi, sort of made sense with injury issues but with hindsight another bad call.
Not signing Jono Ross was a big bad call.

I like Thompson and Spencer signings TBF, but it's not enough.

The one main saving grace of the current group is how much they have changed the academy set-up, especially the identification process.

[Banquo]

I think the current Leicester forwards are the worst in the professional era. Whoever assembled the group needs shafting.

2 of them have been binned.
Just Ged left but he seems to be made of Teflon.

I think Tigers is the perfect case of shocking planning, especially in recruitment.
Letting go of players with no real replacement lined up.
Letting go off Betham mid contract never made any sense for example, Malouf was a good player but was raw and wasn't as versatile as Betham.
May for JPP made sense but we had no real Slater replacement lined up....
Mauger letting go off Parling and Salvi, sort of made sense with injury issues but with hindsight another bad call.
Not signing Jono Ross was a big bad call.

I like Thompson and Spencer signings TBF, but it's not enough.

The one main saving grace of the current group is how much they have changed the academy set-up, especially the identification process.

Crying shame that a club with Tigers cachet and money is only now looking to an academy strategy; all your talk of poor recruitment may be valid, but imo more shocking are years wasted in developing your own.

[Tigersman]

I think the current Leicester forwards are the worst in the professional era. Whoever assembled the group needs shafting.

2 of them have been binned.
Just Ged left but he seems to be made of Teflon.

I think Tigers is the perfect case of shocking planning, especially in recruitment.
Letting go of players with no real replacement lined up.
Letting go off Betham mid contract never made any sense for example, Malouf was a good player but was raw and wasn't as versatile as Betham.
May for JPP made sense but we had no real Slater replacement lined up....
Mauger letting go off Parling and Salvi, sort of made sense with injury issues but with hindsight another bad call.
Not signing Jono Ross was a big bad call.

I like Thompson and Spencer signings TBF, but it's not enough.

The one main saving grace of the current group is how much they have changed the academy set-up, especially the identification process.

Crying shame that a club with Tigers cachet and money is only now looking to an academy strategy; all your talk of poor recruitment may be valid, but imo more shocking are years wasted in developing your own.

Don't disagree with that.
100% was a massive fault considering how good it was.
Cole, Youngs, Croft, Tuilagi are academy products in the same lions year in 2015.

Personally I blame Cockerill with that and MOC when he was Cockers deputy.
Cockers to his credit has learnt from it at Edinburgh but yeh not good enough.

Dave Wilks from Sale Sharks academy has put alot of work in the academy along with Jamie taylor and hopefully we don't go backwards.

[Banquo]

2 of them have been binned.
Just Ged left but he seems to be made of Teflon.

I think Tigers is the perfect case of shocking planning, especially in recruitment.
Letting go of players with no real replacement lined up.
Letting go off Betham mid contract never made any sense for example, Malouf was a good player but was raw and wasn't as versatile as Betham.
May for JPP made sense but we had no real Slater replacement lined up....
Mauger letting go off Parling and Salvi, sort of made sense with injury issues but with hindsight another bad call.
Not signing Jono Ross was a big bad call.

I like Thompson and Spencer signings TBF, but it's not enough.

The one main saving grace of the current group is how much they have changed the academy set-up, especially the identification process.

Crying shame that a club with Tigers cachet and money is only now looking to an academy strategy; all your talk of poor recruitment may be valid, but imo more shocking are years wasted in developing your own.

Don't disagree with that.
100% was a massive fault considering how good it was.
Cole, Youngs, Croft, Tuilagi are academy products in the same lions year in 2015.

Personally I blame Cockerill with that and MOC when he was Cockers deputy.
Cockers to his credit has learnt from it at Edinburgh but yeh not good enough.

Dave Wilks from Sale Sharks academy has put alot of work in the academy along with Jamie taylor and hopefully we don't go backwards.

good. I just hope other clubs somehow wake up to developing their own, recognising the challenges for poorer smaller clubs who need to survive- but their sustainability has to be from academies not (huge levels of) imports.

[Tigersman]

I think they are starting too.
Bath and Wasps recent success should see those kick start it.

One thing I have noticed about Tigers is they are doing a lot more media work on the academy, compared to 3 years ago when they posted nothing, hardly any highlights or player interviews, now it's almost weekly interviews and highlights nearly.

[Banquo]

I think they are starting too.
Bath and Wasps recent success should see those kick start it.

One thing I have noticed about Tigers is they are doing a lot more media work on the academy, compared to 3 years ago when they posted nothing, hardly any highlights or player interviews, now it's almost weekly interviews and highlights nearly.

Saints are definitely doing it. though also keen on overseas middling players; Sale strike me as a team that should be doing it..........

[Tigersman]

I think they are starting too.
Bath and Wasps recent success should see those kick start it.

One thing I have noticed about Tigers is they are doing a lot more media work on the academy, compared to 3 years ago when they posted nothing, hardly any highlights or player interviews, now it's almost weekly interviews and highlights nearly.

Saints are definitely doing it. though also keen on overseas middling players; Sale strike me as a team that should be doing it..........

TBF to Sale they have given like 5 academy players 5 years contracts.

[Banquo]

I think they are starting too.
Bath and Wasps recent success should see those kick start it.

One thing I have noticed about Tigers is they are doing a lot more media work on the academy, compared to 3 years ago when they posted nothing, hardly any highlights or player interviews, now it's almost weekly interviews and highlights nearly.

Saints are definitely doing it. though also keen on overseas middling players; Sale strike me as a team that should be doing it..........

TBF to Sale they have given like 5 academy players 5 years contracts.

Plus something like 7 saffers according to your rumour!

[Mellsblue]

Saints are definitely doing it. though also keen on overseas middling players; Sale strike me as a team that should be doing it..........

TBF to Sale they have given like 5 academy players 5 years contracts.

Plus something like 7 saffers according to your rumour!

The Saracens model!!

[Puja]

I think they are starting too.
Bath and Wasps recent success should see those kick start it.

One thing I have noticed about Tigers is they are doing a lot more media work on the academy, compared to 3 years ago when they posted nothing, hardly any highlights or player interviews, now it's almost weekly interviews and highlights nearly.

Saints are definitely doing it. though also keen on overseas middling players; Sale strike me as a team that should be doing it..........

TBF to Sale they have given like 5 academy players 5 years contracts.

Indeed. With them bringing through or in the process of bringing through Curry, Curry, James, James, Reed, Wilkinson, and Moore, you can't blame them for wanting a bit of stardust to supplement those. Especially since you consider the academy products like Haley, Addison, Taylor, etc that they've lost to bigger clubs over the last few years.

Puja

[Banquo]

Saints are definitely doing it. though also keen on overseas middling players; Sale strike me as a team that should be doing it..........

TBF to Sale they have given like 5 academy players 5 years contracts.

Indeed. With them bringing through or in the process of bringing through Curry, Curry, James, James, Reed, Wilkinson, and Moore, you can't blame them for wanting a bit of stardust to supplement those. Especially since you consider the academy products like Haley, Addison, Taylor, etc that they've lost to bigger clubs over the last few years.

Puja

stardust? lol. Props Signing a whole lot of saffers doesnt sound like a 'bit' of stardust..........picking up Kitschoff, all three du Preez brothers, Accker van der Merwe and also Lood de Jager

[Puja]

TBF to Sale they have given like 5 academy players 5 years contracts.

Indeed. With them bringing through or in the process of bringing through Curry, Curry, James, James, Reed, Wilkinson, and Moore, you can't blame them for wanting a bit of stardust to supplement those. Especially since you consider the academy products like Haley, Addison, Taylor, etc that they've lost to bigger clubs over the last few years.

Puja

stardust? lol. Props Signing a whole lot of saffers doesnt sound like a bit of stardust

It sounds like a very sensible plan to me - that Sale side is crying out for decent tight 5 forwards and I can see them being very good if they get the right people in.

Puja

[Banquo]

Indeed. With them bringing through or in the process of bringing through Curry, Curry, James, James, Reed, Wilkinson, and Moore, you can't blame them for wanting a bit of stardust to supplement those. Especially since you consider the academy products like Haley, Addison, Taylor, etc that they've lost to bigger clubs over the last few years.

Puja

stardust? lol. Props Signing a whole lot of saffers doesnt sound like a bit of stardust

It sounds like a very sensible plan to me - that Sale side is crying out for decent tight 5 forwards and I can see them being very good if they get the right people in.

Puja

.....my original point being about sustainability, and then about it hardly being a 'bit' of stardust. But ok, lets just keep spending money instead.

[Puja]

stardust? lol. Props Signing a whole lot of saffers doesnt sound like a bit of stardust

It sounds like a very sensible plan to me - that Sale side is crying out for decent tight 5 forwards and I can see them being very good if they get the right people in.

Puja

.....my original point being about sustainability, and then about it hardly being a 'bit' of stardust. But ok, lets just keep spending money instead.

Ah right - misunderstood you. Thought the emphasis was on not sounding like stardust, instead of not sounding like just a bit. Agreed with you on not pissing away the CVC money, but if Sale need anything, it's success to draw a better crowd and that'll only come with 2-3 really good tight five forwards.

Puja

[Banquo]

It sounds like a very sensible plan to me - that Sale side is crying out for decent tight 5 forwards and I can see them being very good if they get the right people in.

Puja

.....my original point being about sustainability, and then about it hardly being a 'bit' of stardust. But ok, lets just keep spending money instead.

Ah right - misunderstood you. Thought the emphasis was on not sounding like stardust, instead of not sounding like just a bit. Agreed with you on not pissing away the CVC money, but if Sale need anything, it's success to draw a better crowd and that'll only come with 2-3 really good tight five forwards.

Puja

It was half a joke at the expense of props. The scale of (short term) investment was what struck me; I guess the other point is their realistic long term survival.