Brexit delayed

[Stom]

3 tory defectors confirmed, we're up to eleven now

There will be more. Bigger than the Lib Dems already

[Sandydragon]

3 tory defectors confirmed, we're up to eleven now

There will be more. Bigger than the Lib Dems already

4th biggest party in parliament. If they get to third place then they get some additional privileges IIRC, provided they are actually a party of course.

[Digby]

Any Lib Dems joined yet?

[Stom]

Any Lib Dems joined yet?

Are any of them actually alive?

[fivepointer]

i dont know where the TIG is going. It may turn into a damp squib. It may flounder badly when it comes under close scrutiny, but its quite astonishing that it is registering a double digit score in a poll today when it isnt a proper party.
Watching the abysmal performance of May and Corbyn at PMQ's and the wretched quality of so many front benchers in Parliament, its really not surprising people are at least interested in looking at an alternative.

[Digby]

Any Lib Dems joined yet?

Are any of them actually alive?

I heard from one of them just the other day so yes

But more importantly the letter from those leaving the Conservative party starts Dear Prime minister and ends yours sincerely, is PM a name or should that not end faithfully, or is it sincerely as to end a letter saying you're deserting someone faithfully would be absurd?

[Puja]

Any Lib Dems joined yet?

Are any of them actually alive?

They've been replaced by a shirt PERL script that just asks for a second referendum every PMQs

But more importantly the letter from those leaving the Conservative party starts Dear Prime minister and ends yours sincerely, is PM a name or should that not end faithfully, or is it sincerely as to end a letter saying you're deserting someone faithfully would be absurd?

I'd say PM is a name/title. It's clearly being used as a direct and specific form of address, so yours sincerely is appropriate to my mind.

Mind, never mind about politicians not being faithful, it's a bit of a stretch to suggest many of them are sincere!

Puja

[Which Tyler]

I'd say PM is a name/title. It's clearly being used as a direct and specific form of address, so yours sincerely is appropriate to my mind.

Mind, never mind about politicians not being faithful, it's a bit of a stretch to suggest many of them are sincere!

50-odd of them are sincerely deluded (including mine - who replied to my letter with a bunch of cloud cookooland lies)

[Zhivago]

I'm hoping it becomes a transient grouping to bring soft Brexit or even no Brexit. Then they can fade into the ether with their unelectable neoliberal guff.

[Zhivago]

dodgy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rces-claim

[Sandydragon]

I'm hoping it becomes a transient grouping to bring soft Brexit or even no Brexit. Then they can fade into the ether with their unelectable neoliberal guff.

Unelectable? A proven track record suggests otherwise.

[Zhivago]

I'm hoping it becomes a transient grouping to bring soft Brexit or even no Brexit. Then they can fade into the ether with their unelectable neoliberal guff.

Unelectable? A proven track record suggests otherwise.

Past performance is not indicative of future results

[Sandydragon]

I'm hoping it becomes a transient grouping to bring soft Brexit or even no Brexit. Then they can fade into the ether with their unelectable neoliberal guff.

Unelectable? A proven track record suggests otherwise.

Past performance is not indicative of future results

Perhaps not. But Corbyn left wing agenda had a open goal at the last election and still lost.

Times are odd at the moment and people are voting for the extremes in greater numbers. That won’t last.

[Stones of granite]

dodgy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rces-claim

Black propaganda more like. Expect more of this kind of vague allegation from Labour’s dirty tricks department in the very near future.

[canta_brian]

“Senior Tory MP Dominic Grieve has said he will also leave if there's a no-deal Brexit.”

Ffs, grow a pair. If you oppose a no deal brexit, waiting until it has already happened and then leaving achieves fuck all.

[Sandydragon]

dodgy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rces-claim

Black propaganda more like. Expect more of this kind of vague allegation from Labour’s dirty tricks department in the very near future.

Quite possibly. Anyone else find it a bit much for Corbyn to demand that his MPs support their 2017 manifesto when he made a political career out of opposing his party’s manifestos?

[Stones of granite]

dodgy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rces-claim

Black propaganda more like. Expect more of this kind of vague allegation from Labour’s dirty tricks department in the very near future.

Quite possibly. Anyone else find it a bit much for Corbyn to demand that his MPs support their 2017 manifesto when he made a political career out of opposing his party’s manifestos?

Nothing in the story adds up. There is 2-layer security on the Contact Creator software, it requires a handful of keystrokes by an admin to block access to someone, it doesn't require to be "shut down".
Also, attempted access in this way is illegal, so it makes no sense that the alleged perpetrator hasn't been named, or their details with accompanying system logs as evidence, handed over to the Police.

Vague allegations of wrongdoing without any substantiation - a standard tool in the Political toolbox of mischief making.

[Mikey Brown]

Any Lib Dems joined yet?

Are any of them actually alive?

I heard from one of them just the other day so yes

But more importantly the letter from those leaving the Conservative party starts Dear Prime minister and ends yours sincerely, is PM a name or should that not end faithfully, or is it sincerely as to end a letter saying you're deserting someone faithfully would be absurd?

Finally someone addressing the elephant in the room.

Keep fighting the good fight, sir.

[Sandydragon]

Black propaganda more like. Expect more of this kind of vague allegation from Labour’s dirty tricks department in the very near future.

Quite possibly. Anyone else find it a bit much for Corbyn to demand that his MPs support their 2017 manifesto when he made a political career out of opposing his party’s manifestos?

Nothing in the story adds up. There is 2-layer security on the Contact Creator software, it requires a handful of keystrokes by an admin to block access to someone, it doesn't require to be "shut down".
Also, attempted access in this way is illegal, so it makes no sense that the alleged perpetrator hasn't been named, or their details with accompanying system logs as evidence, handed over to the Police.

Vague allegations of wrongdoing without any substantiation - a standard tool in the Political toolbox of mischief making.

Exactly. Unless it’s a very badly designed system, removing access should be child’s play.

[Banquo]

dodgy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rces-claim

Black propaganda more like. Expect more of this kind of vague allegation from Labour’s dirty tricks department in the very near future.

Momemtum and odious Owen were all over Twitter with pre-prepared smears against the departing MPs within minutes of the announcement. What’s interesting is that the Labour leavers seemed gutted to be going, and have been traduced by party members—- whereas the Tory leavers seem overwhelmingly happy, wanting to wreck the Tory party (unlike the Labour leavers who just want rid of jazz’s), yet no one from the Tories is giving them a hard time. Tells me the Labour machine is much more organised and aggressive.

[Digby]

Labour lose another MP and Theresa is facing a backlash from moderates in her party, both leavers and remainers. Neither Jeremy nor Theresa are offering the people a vote on what's essentially an impasse

Whether Theresa now breaks her word on having meaningful vote next week given the moderates looking to moderate we'll have to wait and see. It seems likely when her only political move so far has been kicking the can down the road

[Digby]

Ivan Rogers has an essay in the Times today, I'm torn between describing it as excellent and it merely stating the bleeding obvious

[Banquo]

Ivan Rogers has an essay in the Times today, I'm torn between describing it as excellent and it merely stating the bleeding obvious

I still remain flabbergasted with the sheer quantity of Leave voters who face to face and on line repeat and seemingly believe the mantras of 'no deal is fine', 'wto it is then', 'project fear still going', 'if only we had negotiators who were pro leave we'd be fine'....FFS. Not one will admit their vote was wrong, not one will accept the consequences or 'own' their vote. I despair.

[Digby]

Ivan Rogers has an essay in the Times today, I'm torn between describing it as excellent and it merely stating the bleeding obvious

I still remain flabbergasted with the sheer quantity of Leave voters who face to face and on line repeat and seemingly believe the mantras of 'no deal is fine', 'wto it is then', 'project fear still going', 'if only we had negotiators who were pro leave we'd be fine'....FFS. Not one will admit their vote was wrong, not one will accept the consequences or 'own' their vote. I despair.

Rogers as an ardent remainer isn't taking the view we should do other than leave. More he thinks the leavers and government need to decide on their political and economic choices accepting the reality a bad deal is better than no deal, but we'd get a better deal if we could be mature enough to concede any new deal will be economically worse than our present situation and then actually get on and deliver it.

And no deal is not fine, no deal is so damaging I'm almost glad we're now of the view those seeking serious damage to our national security can be stripped of their citizenship, leave means leave has a certain charm in some contexts

[Banquo]

Ivan Rogers has an essay in the Times today, I'm torn between describing it as excellent and it merely stating the bleeding obvious

I still remain flabbergasted with the sheer quantity of Leave voters who face to face and on line repeat and seemingly believe the mantras of 'no deal is fine', 'wto it is then', 'project fear still going', 'if only we had negotiators who were pro leave we'd be fine'....FFS. Not one will admit their vote was wrong, not one will accept the consequences or 'own' their vote. I despair.

Rogers as an ardent remainer isn't taking the view we should do other than leave. More he thinks the leavers and government need to decide on their political and economic choices accepting the reality a bad deal is better than no deal, but we'd get a better deal if we could be mature enough to concede any new deal will be economically worse than our present situation and then actually get on and deliver it.

And no deal is not fine, no deal is so damaging I'm almost glad we're now of the view those seeking serious damage to our national security can be stripped of their citizenship, leave means leave has a certain charm in some contexts

Its hardly rocket science as you said, but even the basics seem beyond the leave voters