Perspective ...

[Scrumhead]

OK, so I’m writing this in as bad a mood as everyone else here (apart from the visiting trolls). At the same time, I’m trying to put it in to perspective.

Prior to the 6 Nations, I don’t recall any of us predicting a wildly optimistic Grand Slam or even giving us a real shout of winning the tournament.

Clearly, we’re not in contention for a Grand Slam or Triple Crown, but I’d say we’re still in with a very good shout of first or second place given that our remaining fixtures are Italy and Scotland at home. Wales may yet do the Slam, but I’d be surprised if they’re good enough to beat Ireland, while bonus points against Italy and Scotland could still give us the title.

Curry was excellent again today, as was Sinckler and if a crap performance forces us to review our questionable kick and kick again tactics, it’s not the worst result.

[Timbo]

Wales-Ireland will be incredibly tight I think. Tough to call.

Biggest solace for me, without looking at specifics in terms of tactics, technical areas and personnel, is that while we’re a pretty good but flawed team, I feel like the other top sides are in the same boat.

Any of the top 5 teams can beat the other on a given day. Can’t see that changing too much between now and the World Cup.

[Mellsblue]

I thought there were some seriously good individual performances. Big issue is we’re slow in thought and deed at halfback when not presented with perfect, front foot ball and Daly isn’t good enough under the high ball.

[Timbo]

There will be a lot said about Sinckler ‘losing his head’ over the next few days i’m sure, but it’s nonsense as far as I’m concerned. He was bloody great today, totally dominated every physical contest he was involved in. Gave away one slightly unlucky penalty in the AWJ tackle and now the narrative is that he ‘lost it’. For me he’s borderline world class now. Very few TH’s that can impact a game at test level to the extent he’s doing at the moment.

[Digby]

Sinckler was awesome, and he's not responsible for those lineout infringements that gifted possession and territory

[WaspInWales]

Sinckler was awesome, and he's not responsible for those lineout infringements that gifted possession and territory

Yep!

[Oakboy]

No team wins the RWC without being able to adopt different tactics depending on the state of game. I don't see it as the end of the world to lose a game in the 6N but I see us as no-hopers based on not being able to win that game because we could not adapt in the 2nd half. Worse, I hate that our head coach did not replace the 9 and 10 to at least give us a chance to try.

[Banquo]

Sinckler was awesome, and he's not responsible for those lineout infringements that gifted possession and territory

Correct- despite how crap we were, there were two big shifts in momentum; Wales had a defensive lineout after Faz had kicked more attacking ball away, and Kruis interfered with the catcher unnecessarily, and from there Wales went down the park and scored a pen, when they had looked under the cosh.

The second one was when Wilson knocked it on in attack, and Wales then went through 30 phases to score a try. Wales used their momentum shifts to good effect, so kudos, even it self inflicted.

Sinckler, Kruis (above mistake excluded), Curry were all significant plus points (though Sinckler did lose it a bit).

[p/d]

Sinckler was awesome, and he's not responsible for those lineout infringements that gifted possession and territory

Correct- despite how crap we were, there were two big shifts in momentum; Wales had a defensive lineout after Faz had kicked more attacking ball away, and Kruis interfered with the catcher unnecessarily, and from there Wales went down the park and scored a pen, when they had looked under the cosh.

The second one was when Wilson knocked it on in attack, and Wales then went through 30 phases to score a try. Wales used their momentum shifts to good effect, so kudos, even it self inflicted.

Sinckler, Kruis (above mistake excluded), Curry were all significant plus points (though Sinckler did lose it a bit).

Surely Sinckler takes some responsibility for us being pinged for closing the gap? Think from that free kick Wales went on to bag 3 points.

[Banquo]

Sinckler was awesome, and he's not responsible for those lineout infringements that gifted possession and territory

Correct- despite how crap we were, there were two big shifts in momentum; Wales had a defensive lineout after Faz had kicked more attacking ball away, and Kruis interfered with the catcher unnecessarily, and from there Wales went down the park and scored a pen, when they had looked under the cosh.

The second one was when Wilson knocked it on in attack, and Wales then went through 30 phases to score a try. Wales used their momentum shifts to good effect, so kudos, even it self inflicted.

Sinckler, Kruis (above mistake excluded), Curry were all significant plus points (though Sinckler did lose it a bit).

Surely Sinckler takes some responsibility for us being pinged for closing the gap? Think from that free kick Wales went on to bag 3 points.

without watching it back, not sure, though I do seem to mention the number three being mentioned a lot in a 10 min period.

[Timbo]

No team wins the RWC without being able to adopt different tactics depending on the state of game. I don't see it as the end of the world to lose a game in the 6N but I see us as no-hopers based on not being able to win that game because we could not adapt in the 2nd half.

That’s how most teams look when they lose, though. Ireland against us 3 weeks ago, South Africa against England and Wales in the Autumn, even NZ in recent times. All looked quite one dimensional once their main strengths had been negated, and then failed to adapt their games accordingly.

[Hooky]

There will be a lot said about Sinckler ‘losing his head’ over the next few days i’m sure, but it’s nonsense as far as I’m concerned. He was bloody great today, totally dominated every physical contest he was involved in. Gave away one slightly unlucky penalty in the AWJ tackle and now the narrative is that he ‘lost it’. For me he’s borderline world class now. Very few TH’s that can impact a game at test level to the extent he’s doing at the moment.

He’s a top player. Gatland rates him very highly

[Hooky]

No team wins the RWC without being able to adopt different tactics depending on the state of game. I don't see it as the end of the world to lose a game in the 6N but I see us as no-hopers based on not being able to win that game because we could not adapt in the 2nd half.

That’s how most teams look when they lose, though. Ireland against us 3 weeks ago, South Africa against England and Wales in the Autumn, even NZ in recent times. All looked quite one dimensional once their main strengths had been negated, and then failed to adapt their games accordingly.

Good point

[Timbo]

Sinckler was awesome, and he's not responsible for those lineout infringements that gifted possession and territory

Correct- despite how crap we were, there were two big shifts in momentum; Wales had a defensive lineout after Faz had kicked more attacking ball away, and Kruis interfered with the catcher unnecessarily, and from there Wales went down the park and scored a pen, when they had looked under the cosh.

The second one was when Wilson knocked it on in attack, and Wales then went through 30 phases to score a try. Wales used their momentum shifts to good effect, so kudos, even it self inflicted.

Sinckler, Kruis (above mistake excluded), Curry were all significant plus points (though Sinckler did lose it a bit).

Yes, very little between the top 5 teams in the world. NZ have slipped back slightly and the other 4 improved a bit. Most games between them will be decided by small things. Could easily see us lose against Ireland if we played them next week, equally think if we played today’s second half again we probably get it over the line.

Frustrating thing is that it briefly felt like, with all our players back fit, we’d possibly elevated ourselves above the others to being alongside NZ. But Ireland probably felt the same until a few weeks back tbf.

[Digby]

There will be a lot said about Sinckler ‘losing his head’ over the next few days i’m sure, but it’s nonsense as far as I’m concerned. He was bloody great today, totally dominated every physical contest he was involved in. Gave away one slightly unlucky penalty in the AWJ tackle and now the narrative is that he ‘lost it’. For me he’s borderline world class now. Very few TH’s that can impact a game at test level to the extent he’s doing at the moment.

He’s a top player. Gatland rates him very highly

One of the few negative things I've heard about Sinckler

[Hooky]

There will be a lot said about Sinckler ‘losing his head’ over the next few days i’m sure, but it’s nonsense as far as I’m concerned. He was bloody great today, totally dominated every physical contest he was involved in. Gave away one slightly unlucky penalty in the AWJ tackle and now the narrative is that he ‘lost it’. For me he’s borderline world class now. Very few TH’s that can impact a game at test level to the extent he’s doing at the moment.

He’s a top player. Gatland rates him very highly

One of the few negative things I've heard about Sinckler

Oooh get you, bless.

[Beasties]

Sinckler was awesome, and he's not responsible for those lineout infringements that gifted possession and territory

Correct- despite how crap we were, there were two big shifts in momentum; Wales had a defensive lineout after Faz had kicked more attacking ball away, and Kruis interfered with the catcher unnecessarily, and from there Wales went down the park and scored a pen, when they had looked under the cosh.

The second one was when Wilson knocked it on in attack, and Wales then went through 30 phases to score a try. Wales used their momentum shifts to good effect, so kudos, even it self inflicted.

Sinckler, Kruis (above mistake excluded), Curry were all significant plus points (though Sinckler did lose it a bit).

Yes, very little between the top 5 teams in the world. NZ have slipped back slightly and the other 4 improved a bit. Most games between them will be decided by small things. Could easily see us lose against Ireland if we played them next week, equally think if we played today’s second half again we probably get it over the line.

Frustrating thing is that it briefly felt like, with all our players back fit, we’d possibly elevated ourselves above the others to being alongside NZ. But Ireland probably felt the same until a few weeks back tbf.

This.
I've not read anything else on here yet, but I'm glad we lost today. It was all getting a bit too "we've sorted it all out" what with Mitchell coming in and a few players back and not flogging the shit out of them. We've played well for two and a half games but when Wales upped the anti in the second half the wheels came off our up and at em/hoof the leather off the ball tactics. Wales didn't even do anything particularly creative. What pissed me off was the complete lack of desire to try something even slightly off script FFS.

[Spiffy]

There will be a lot said about Sinckler ‘losing his head’ over the next few days i’m sure, but it’s nonsense as far as I’m concerned. He was bloody great today, totally dominated every physical contest he was involved in. Gave away one slightly unlucky penalty in the AWJ tackle and now the narrative is that he ‘lost it’. For me he’s borderline world class now. Very few TH’s that can impact a game at test level to the extent he’s doing at the moment.

He’s a top player. Gatland rates him very highly

Sinckler is a very good prop, but needs to learn to shut up and just get on with it and stop trying to be the mouthy, smart-ass, wind-up king who is always trying to provoke a bit of aggro. That kind of player can be a liability to his team and a potential match-loser. He will be great when he matures.

[Mikey Brown]

Correct- despite how crap we were, there were two big shifts in momentum; Wales had a defensive lineout after Faz had kicked more attacking ball away, and Kruis interfered with the catcher unnecessarily, and from there Wales went down the park and scored a pen, when they had looked under the cosh.

The second one was when Wilson knocked it on in attack, and Wales then went through 30 phases to score a try. Wales used their momentum shifts to good effect, so kudos, even it self inflicted.

Sinckler, Kruis (above mistake excluded), Curry were all significant plus points (though Sinckler did lose it a bit).

Yes, very little between the top 5 teams in the world. NZ have slipped back slightly and the other 4 improved a bit. Most games between them will be decided by small things. Could easily see us lose against Ireland if we played them next week, equally think if we played today’s second half again we probably get it over the line.

Frustrating thing is that it briefly felt like, with all our players back fit, we’d possibly elevated ourselves above the others to being alongside NZ. But Ireland probably felt the same until a few weeks back tbf.

This.
I've not read anything else on here yet, but I'm glad we lost today. It was all getting a bit too "we've sorted it all out" what with Mitchell coming in and a few players back and not flogging the shit out of them. We've played well for two and a half games but when Wales upped the anti in the second half the wheels came off our up and at em/hoof the leather off the ball tactics. Wales didn't even do anything particularly creative. What pissed me off was the complete lack of desire to try something even slightly off script FFS.

Are we actually going to try and fix any of the correct things though? The halfbacks are clearly infallible. I fear Daly has also been good enough in loose play to somehow get rid of all this worry about him not being able to do the core fullback jobs. Any other examples? I'm sure there's a few.

[richy678]

I am also writing in a not very impressed mood.
Perhaps its my age, but the match never captured me or drew me in as spectacle, which believe you me, is very very strange for an Eng v Wales match.

The amount of juggling and double knock on's at the tackle line, no where to run if you ran a line from depth and a high percentage of being intercepted if passed flat, didn't lend itself to a watchable match (but were supposed to be "rugby purists", not so important for pleasant on the eye stuff).

I've just seen a twitter post of a picture of Alan Wyn Jones and the caption of "Best Ever"? Well there were a few moments he didn't look great yesterday, smashed back yards in the carry, turned over in the lineout - I thought he had a captain Borthwick game. I've never rated him as a top draw lock, in English terms he is Simon Shaw/Danny Grewcock level.
I feel the need to qualify this statement...in case its perceived as sour grapes.....I was not a Robshaw fan as captain or Player and agreed he wasn't worth a place on that Lions tour.


So, we all worked out how England beat Ireland and France tactically, but I couldn't work out where (especially in Dublin) where the extra athletic power and pace ability/intensity had come from.
The athletic bit wasn't really there yesterday - apart from maybe in the weight of tackle England managed to apply at times.

Credit to Wales to not present the opportunities, as regularly as Ireland and France, to allow May and Daly to chase loose ball 2 on 1.

I thought both England Flankers played well and have gone some way to securing there places, Wilson is almost a classic 6, "unseen work", cleaning up shit ball - Curry did very well, I would like to see Underhill come back and challenge though.

Daly has to go back on the wing - he is not a fullback.
Manu made one eye catching slashing break, but I suggest he has lost half a yard of pace from pre injuries and maybe a little power.
Slade couldn't produce the show reel moments from the first two games.
Jonathon Joseph is back playing, but is he ready for tests?

Nowell is great player, about to be cursed by utility.

Is the Italy fixture a development, plan B game?

[fivepointer]

I'm afraid our 2nd half yesterday was as bad as the 2nd half against France, where we spurned opportunities to run, kicked away ball to no good effect and displayed zero ambition.
Playing one way may put you in a position to win, but unless you are executing to a high standard, you will usually need something a bit extra to beat good sides. And Wales are a good side: resilient, disciplined, fit with enough good players to worry every other team in the world.
What was galling yesterday was the rigidity we imposed on ourselves. The use, or more accurately non use, of the bench yesterday was utterly inexplicable. So much for the finishers tag.
On the wider point, we will beat Italy and Scotland and should finish in the top 3. Thats probably where most of us thought we would end up, though it is disappointing to reflect on 2 very patchy performances on the trot now.

[p/d]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

[Oakboy]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

The fact is that we did come up short at crunch time, as Gatland has said. He changed his team's approach at HT and substituted his game-managing 9/10.

On the other hand, we kept on kicking badly when it was not working. Williams had a cracking 80 minutes because our 9/10 game managers gave him more attacking opportunities than they did our whole back line. I spent 80 minutes groaning 'don't just kick it down Williams's throat again'.

We lost in the 2nd half because our management/leadership on and off the pitch was worse than Wales's. I am no fan of Gatland but if he and his assistant coaches had been in our dressing room at half time we would have won and neither Youngs nor Farrell would have been on the pitch after 55 minutes.

Incidentally, did Coka touch the ball at all?

[Mellsblue]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

Barnes has given Farrell a bit of a going over.

[Timbo]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

The fact is that we did come up short at crunch time, as Gatland has said. He changed his team's approach at HT and substituted his game-managing 9/10.

On the other hand, we kept on kicking badly when it was not working. Williams had a cracking 80 minutes because our 9/10 game managers gave him more attacking opportunities than they did our whole back line. I spent 80 minutes groaning 'don't just kick it down Williams's throat again'.

We lost in the 2nd half because our management/leadership on and off the pitch was worse than Wales's. I am no fan of Gatland but if he and his assistant coaches had been in our dressing room at half time we would have won and neither Youngs nor Farrell would have been on the pitch after 55 minutes.

Incidentally, did Coka touch the ball at all?

Did they change approach? From what to what? And if half time was such a factor how come we dominated the first 10 minutes of the second half?