Perspective ...

[Oakboy]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

Barnes has given Farrell a bit of a going over.

Ah, that's the posh paper! Good for SB.

[Oakboy]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

The fact is that we did come up short at crunch time, as Gatland has said. He changed his team's approach at HT and substituted his game-managing 9/10.

On the other hand, we kept on kicking badly when it was not working. Williams had a cracking 80 minutes because our 9/10 game managers gave him more attacking opportunities than they did our whole back line. I spent 80 minutes groaning 'don't just kick it down Williams's throat again'.

We lost in the 2nd half because our management/leadership on and off the pitch was worse than Wales's. I am no fan of Gatland but if he and his assistant coaches had been in our dressing room at half time we would have won and neither Youngs nor Farrell would have been on the pitch after 55 minutes.

Incidentally, did Coka touch the ball at all?

Did they change approach? From what to what? And if half time was such a factor how come we dominated the first 10 minutes of the second half?

I thought Wales backed off the multi-phase bit in favour of kicking more themselves. They did it without gifting us possession in useable areas and gave themselves the chance to stifle our attempts to turn them. The approach gradually wore us down. As for the first 10 minutes, do you really mean 'dominate'? Territorially, we might have had some case to be doing OK, but scoreboard-wise? I just think we looked increasingly desperate and ran out of ideas. Wales looked resilient and 'up for it' even when a bit ragged. Some of that had to be down to collective self-belief, I thought - superior to ours, anyway.

[p/d]

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

Barnes has given Farrell a bit of a going over.

Ah, that's the posh paper! Good for SB.

Woodward made no mention of Farrell, yet shoehorned 2003 in a few times..and drop goals, of course

[Scrumhead]

I just don’t understand how we can run out of ideas when we had only tried one tactic?

We didn’t even really try to put it through the hands.

Our first try against Ireland didn’t come from kicking. Why couldn’t we have done something similar?

Even worse, I doubt we would have scored our try without Curry showing a bit of initiative. Had Youngs or Farrell had the opportunity to get involved, we probably wouldn’t have scored.

[WaspInWales]

I just don’t understand how we can run out of ideas when we had only tried one tactic?

We didn’t even really try to put it through the hands.

Our first try against Ireland didn’t come from kicking. Why couldn’t we have done something similar?

Even worse, I doubt we would have scored our try without Curry showing a bit of initiative. Had Youngs or Farrell had the opportunity to get involved, we probably wouldn’t have scored.

Yep. This!

Just before the break, we we getting close and applying pressure only for Farrell to fuck it up with a dreadful left to right pass when playing scrum half. I'm not saying it cost us a try, but it definitely lost all momentum and we ended up with nothing.

Why did we just keep kicking the ball away? It wasn't working and only resulted in us defending all match. The tackle count was ridiculous.

I'm really quite angry still. Not due to losing as such...that happens, but how we lost and how we kept playing the same pointless tactics and Jones' refusal to change half backs.

We are fucking doomed at the world cup with that mindset.

After Ireland, I was starting to get a little more positive. I still think Ireland were poor and our tactics were spot on. Couldn't take anything from the France game as they didn't bother turning up. Now though, we have taken massive backwards strides of incompetence and Farrell somehow is still a god trying his best among mere men.

[Banquo]

Correct- despite how crap we were, there were two big shifts in momentum; Wales had a defensive lineout after Faz had kicked more attacking ball away, and Kruis interfered with the catcher unnecessarily, and from there Wales went down the park and scored a pen, when they had looked under the cosh.

The second one was when Wilson knocked it on in attack, and Wales then went through 30 phases to score a try. Wales used their momentum shifts to good effect, so kudos, even it self inflicted.

Sinckler, Kruis (above mistake excluded), Curry were all significant plus points (though Sinckler did lose it a bit).

Yes, very little between the top 5 teams in the world. NZ have slipped back slightly and the other 4 improved a bit. Most games between them will be decided by small things. Could easily see us lose against Ireland if we played them next week, equally think if we played today’s second half again we probably get it over the line.

Frustrating thing is that it briefly felt like, with all our players back fit, we’d possibly elevated ourselves above the others to being alongside NZ. But Ireland probably felt the same until a few weeks back tbf.

but I'm glad we lost today. I

I am certainly not! Losing usually leads to re-trenchment not re-evaluation, unfortunately.

[Banquo]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

The fact is that we did come up short at crunch time, as Gatland has said. He changed his team's approach at HT and substituted his game-managing 9/10.

On the other hand, we kept on kicking badly when it was not working. Williams had a cracking 80 minutes because our 9/10 game managers gave him more attacking opportunities than they did our whole back line. I spent 80 minutes groaning 'don't just kick it down Williams's throat again'.

We lost in the 2nd half because our management/leadership on and off the pitch was worse than Wales's. I am no fan of Gatland but if he and his assistant coaches had been in our dressing room at half time we would have won and neither Youngs nor Farrell would have been on the pitch after 55 minutes.

Incidentally, did Coka touch the ball at all?

Did they change approach? From what to what? And if half time was such a factor how come we dominated the first 10 minutes of the second half?

Agreed- key moment was giving away that penalty in their 22. Momentum shifted...I do think Biggar provided some impetus and energy off the bench though, if not a noticeable shift to tactics.

[p/d]

Spot on Banquo

Expect to hear a few things went against us and our execution was poor at key times...... not sure we are going to learn much from the games v Italy and injury ravished Scotland.

The Wales game was the test. And we failed.

Pity those that garnered false hope from the opening two games and rushed to buy tickets for Japan

Edit: not agreeing to your post above

[JellyHead]

There were two things I remember thinking during the match. Firstly in the previous two games in the first quater pretty much all lose ball came our way and we capitalised and opened a decent gap. Yesterday the majority ended in welsh hands and we didn't open a gap. I think we would have done if the bounce had favoured us as much as it did in rounds one and two early on.

Second was that kicking is fine if you earn the right. If you kick you either have to turn the defence or put the ball where you can compete. We never drew the defence up so it was all long ball down to a face on receiver. And as most have been saying here, that is down to the halfbacks. Instead of drawing the defence, making the space and turning them they just went higher, longer and for much lower percentage kicks. Very naive for such experienced players.

I hope they learn from this. I also think one of the forwards should have given them a bollocking and pointed this out. They probably would have done if they weren't all gasping for air having chased another rubbish kick.

[Banquo]

Spot on Banquo

Expect to hear a few things went against us and our execution was poor at key times...... not sure we are going to learn much from the games v Italy and injury ravished Scotland.

The Wales game was the test. And we failed.

Pity those that garnered false hope from the opening two games and rushed to buy tickets for Japan

Edit: not agreeing to your post above

why not

Its true as well!

[Which Tyler]

Incidentally, did Coka touch the ball at all?

Did Coka get as far as standing upright at all?

[p/d]

They certainly won’t be troubling the laundrette with his kit

[Banquo]

George put in a hell of a tackling stint btw. We didn't half make life difficult for ourselves through giving the ball away so much.

[fivepointer]

Think we would all agree with this very good summing up by Alex Shaw - https://www.rugbypass.com/news/englands ... -a-one-off

[Mellsblue]

Think we would all agree with this very good summing up by Alex Shaw - https://www.rugbypass.com/news/englands ... -a-one-off

Mikey Brown is Alex Shaw and I claim my £10:

‘For the third match in a row, England’s centre pairing accounted for three or fewer passes in total’

[Scrumhead]

There were two things I remember thinking during the match. Firstly in the previous two games in the first quater pretty much all lose ball came our way and we capitalised and opened a decent gap. Yesterday the majority ended in welsh hands and we didn't open a gap. I think we would have done if the bounce had favoured us as much as it did in rounds one and two early on.

Second was that kicking is fine if you earn the right. If you kick you either have to turn the defence or put the ball where you can compete. We never drew the defence up so it was all long ball down to a face on receiver. And as most have been saying here, that is down to the halfbacks. Instead of drawing the defence, making the space and turning them they just went higher, longer and for much lower percentage kicks. Very naive for such experienced players.

I hope they learn from this. I also think one of the forwards should have given them a bollocking and pointed this out. They probably would have done if they weren't all gasping for air having chased another rubbish kick.

Agree with most of the above.

I watched the game with uncle (both of us are/were forwards) said the same as the bolded. I can understand the less experienced players maybe not piping up but George, Lawes or Kruis should have.

[p/d]

Think we would all agree with this very good summing up by Alex Shaw - https://www.rugbypass.com/news/englands ... -a-one-off

Nailed it.

[Oakboy]

Think we would all agree with this very good summing up by Alex Shaw - https://www.rugbypass.com/news/englands ... -a-one-off

Yes.

[p/d]

‘For the third match in a row, England’s centre pairing accounted for three or fewer passes in total’

Heartbreaking isn’t it

[Oakboy]

‘For the third match in a row, England’s centre pairing accounted for three or fewer passes in total’

Heartbreaking isn’t it

If all they are going to do is tackle and chase, T'eo might as well play ahead of Slade.

Incidentally, any news of Itoje or Lawes? If Launchbury starts, he ought to be captain.

[p/d]

Itoje will be back. Is Launch really captain material? Though I think our captain should come from the pack.

It’s got 2015 written all over it. And in truth not sure we are any better

[Scrumhead]

Yep - Itoje was rumoured to be close to featuring against Wales so another 13 days should see him right.

[Mikey Brown]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

The fact is that we did come up short at crunch time, as Gatland has said. He changed his team's approach at HT and substituted his game-managing 9/10.

On the other hand, we kept on kicking badly when it was not working. Williams had a cracking 80 minutes because our 9/10 game managers gave him more attacking opportunities than they did our whole back line. I spent 80 minutes groaning 'don't just kick it down Williams's throat again'.

We lost in the 2nd half because our management/leadership on and off the pitch was worse than Wales's. I am no fan of Gatland but if he and his assistant coaches had been in our dressing room at half time we would have won and neither Youngs nor Farrell would have been on the pitch after 55 minutes.

Incidentally, did Coka touch the ball at all?

That’s a fantastic way of putting it.

[Oakboy]

Itoje will be back. Is Launch really captain material? Though I think our captain should come from the pack.

It’s got 2015 written all over it. And in truth not sure we are any better

Captain for his club, he's a forward and he's not Farrell. Good enough for me!

[Oakboy]

Jones will react by ditching Wilson for Shields and swapping Slade out for T’eo

Probably.

It is very quiet in punditry-land this morning in terms of world-class FH, Farrell. 'Not his best game' is as close as it gets to criticism. There is also little said about Youngs.

The fact is that we did come up short at crunch time, as Gatland has said. He changed his team's approach at HT and substituted his game-managing 9/10.

On the other hand, we kept on kicking badly when it was not working. Williams had a cracking 80 minutes because our 9/10 game managers gave him more attacking opportunities than they did our whole back line. I spent 80 minutes groaning 'don't just kick it down Williams's throat again'.

We lost in the 2nd half because our management/leadership on and off the pitch was worse than Wales's. I am no fan of Gatland but if he and his assistant coaches had been in our dressing room at half time we would have won and neither Youngs nor Farrell would have been on the pitch after 55 minutes.

Incidentally, did Coka touch the ball at all?

That’s a fantastic way of putting it.

Thanks. We try to please.