Team for Italy

[Stom]

I’m not sure if you think I’m actually saying Morgan should be in the squad, because I’m not, but I’d have looked at him again before the other two. I don’t really get the purple patch thing, as far as I can see he’s playing far better than either of those two at club level, anything beyond that would be guesswork.

I’m sure Shields has got something and ta not unreasonable that it might take a while to settle in on the other side of the world, but this has got echoes of Burgess the way we’re hoping that form will miraculously appear if we keep giving him international caps.

I just don't see it from Morgan, tbh...sorry.

I agree on Shields, btw. I think he's nowhere near the England team and Clifford should definitely be there in his place. Clifford also offers greater flexibility without diminishing the l/o work too much.

But Shields is there because Eddie must have an extra l/o jumper. It's insanity and I hate the idea of preferring players based on the set piece alone. I know how important the set piece is for point scoring/conceding, but most of the game still takes place in open play and he should be able to hit his rucks, carry, tackle, and link play, not just jump in the bloody l/o.

[twitchy]

Do you think dombrandt will be an 8 long term? He sort of plays like one.

[Mikey Brown]

I'm assuming that's the plan, as it looks quite odd having Clifford at 6 alongside him and Robshaw, when he seems the far more natural 7 or 8. I can't wait to see how he comes on in the next year or so if he gets in top shape.

[Banquo]

Morgan. Great player, just ignored by little eddie.

You keep saying this. He has never been a great player.

He was never a great player for 80 minutes, but he was on another planet to Hughes/Shields when coming off the bench.

That doesn’t help the issue of not adding much flexibility to a 23, or if there’s an early injury. I have a feeling EJ might be able to get a bit more consistency out of him, but that ship has surely sailed. Shame.

He was never a great player, and now post injury and over 30 he's no better. He hasn't played international rugby since 2015. No idea why he keeps on being raised by The Dasher.

[Mikey Brown]

Morgan is the best (and greatest) number 8 in the country and should currently be in the England team

After taking some time to reflect on this post I am changing my mind. I am no longer touting Morgan as the king of no. 8s. Sorry Dasher, you're on your own.

[Banquo]

Morgan is the best (and greatest) number 8 in the country and should currently be in the England team

After taking some time to reflect on this post I am changing my mind. I am no longer touting Morgan as the king of no. 8s. Sorry Dasher, you're on your own.

snowflake. You take a position eg passing stats, then climbdown in the face of no opposition whatsoever.

[Mikey Brown]

I can't tell if you're being serious (and just can't read) or not.

[Banquo]

I can't tell if you're being serious (and just can't read) or not.

Really?

[Scrumhead]

You keep saying this. He has never been a great player.

He was never a great player for 80 minutes, but he was on another planet to Hughes/Shields when coming off the bench.

That doesn’t help the issue of not adding much flexibility to a 23, or if there’s an early injury. I have a feeling EJ might be able to get a bit more consistency out of him, but that ship has surely sailed. Shame.

He was never a great player, and now post injury and over 30 he's no better. He hasn't played international rugby since 2015. No idea why he keeps on being raised by The Dasher.

I feel pretty much the opposite.

‘Great’ is hyperbole, but he’s certainly a very good player and IMO, has been the best 8 in the Premiership this season by some distance.

He was also considerably more effective at test level than Hughes has ever looked and the greatest irony is that at a time when he is playing the best (and most consistent) rugby or his career, he’s ignored.

I don’t buy the versatility argument either. I never want to see Hughes at 6 in an England shirt.

Granted Jack Clifford is more versatile, but as much as I’m a fan, his injury record makes him a risk and (possibly as a result of his injuries) he’s not really lived up to his early potential.

Morgan is ready to go, in the form of his life and proven as a test player. What’s not to like?

[Banquo]

He was never a great player for 80 minutes, but he was on another planet to Hughes/Shields when coming off the bench.

That doesn’t help the issue of not adding much flexibility to a 23, or if there’s an early injury. I have a feeling EJ might be able to get a bit more consistency out of him, but that ship has surely sailed. Shame.

He was never a great player, and now post injury and over 30 he's no better. He hasn't played international rugby since 2015. No idea why he keeps on being raised by The Dasher.

I feel pretty much the opposite.

‘Great’ is hyperbole, but he’s certainly a very good player and IMO, has been the best 8 in the Premiership this season by some distance.

He was also considerably more effective at test level than Hughes has ever looked and the greatest irony is that at a time when he is playing the best (and most consistent) rugby or his career, he’s ignored.

I don’t buy the versatility argument either. I never want to see Hughes at 6 in an England shirt.

Granted Jack Clifford is more versatile, but as much as I’m a fan, his injury record makes him a risk and (possibly as a result of his injuries) he’s not really lived up to his early potential.

Morgan is ready to go, in the form of his life and proven as a test player. What’s not to like?

"proven' as a test player = a couple of half decent games over 3 years ago.

What do you pretty much feel the opposite to?

[Gloskarlos]

I'll defend Morgan a bit here, (having watched all but 2 Glos games) his form this season has been superb, up to where he was pre injury. he lasts 80 minutes, carries well and makes good decisions. Billy aside, there is no better 8 in the prem so far this season. A country mile ahead of Hughes.

He HAS had time in the wilderness, can't argue with that, but if selecting on form, as of today, right now, Morgan would be there or thereabouts.

[Scrumhead]

Agreed. Billy’s barely played in the Premiership this season which is why I said that Morgan has been the best.

He’s definitely matured as a player and as you say, I’d argue that the quality of his decision-making is now as much of a stand out feature as his carrying.

Re. The ‘proven’ comment, there may be an element of rose tinting, but as I recall, he had more than a ‘couple of half decent games’ and definitely a couple of very good ones. I’m not saying that there weren’t some average/poor games in there too, but if we’re making a direct comparison to Hughes, Morgan was far better at test level than anything Hughes has shown and largely against tier 1 opposition. Tries clearly aren’t the only indicator, but 6 in 31 caps is clearly a much better return for an 8 than Hughes’ 1 in 20.

[Banquo]

I'll defend Morgan a bit here, (having watched all but 2 Glos games) his form this season has been superb, up to where he was pre injury. he lasts 80 minutes, carries well and makes good decisions. Billy aside, there is no better 8 in the prem so far this season. A country mile ahead of Hughes.

He HAS had time in the wilderness, can't argue with that, but if selecting on form, as of today, right now, Morgan would be there or thereabouts.

He's clearly got better since he couldn't get a start last season then.

Bald men fighting over comb comparing to Hughes I guess.

[Banquo]

Agreed. Billy’s barely played in the Premiership this season which is why I said that Morgan has been the best.

He’s definitely matured as a player and as you say, I’d argue that the quality of his decision-making is now as much of a stand out feature as his carrying.

Re. The ‘proven’ comment, there may be an element of rose tinting, but as I recall, he had more than a ‘couple of half decent games’ and definitely a couple of very good ones. I’m not saying that there weren’t some average/poor games in there too, but if we’re making a direct comparison to Hughes, Morgan was far better at test level than anything Hughes has shown and largely against tier 1 opposition. Tries clearly aren’t the only indicator, but 6 in 31 caps is clearly a much better return for an 8 than Hughes’ 1 in 20.

Clearly this late blooming has passed me by. The GP has been so poor this season I guess I've just lumped him into the rest of the dross- its just no indicator of fitness for international purpose, sadly.

He had a couple of very good games its true, but that was it, and hardly a proven test player, and as I said, several years ago. Compare away to Hughes, I don't rate him either and he shouldn't be in the test squad. I just don't go overboard over Morgan like Dasher does.

[Gloskarlos]

I'll defend Morgan a bit here, (having watched all but 2 Glos games) his form this season has been superb, up to where he was pre injury. he lasts 80 minutes, carries well and makes good decisions. Billy aside, there is no better 8 in the prem so far this season. A country mile ahead of Hughes.

He HAS had time in the wilderness, can't argue with that, but if selecting on form, as of today, right now, Morgan would be there or thereabouts.

He's clearly got better since he couldn't get a start last season then.

Bald men fighting over comb comparing to Hughes I guess.

Aye - possibly first name on the team sheet right now. A couple of MOTM performances in the last few games, coincided with Ackerman Jnr's injury and he has made the position his own.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, has been in good form for quite a while now. But if premiership form means nothing to Eddie or he’s seen something he doesn’t like in training camps (Morgan has been in one?) then that’s that.

[Scrumhead]

Premiership form means nothing to Banquo either based upon his last post.

[Gloskarlos]

Yeah, has been in good form for quite a while now. But if premiership form means nothing to Eddie or he’s seen something he doesn’t like in training camps (Morgan has been in one?) then that’s that.

Yep. Form is irrelevant to Eddie, or his criteria is based on other things that in large part, remain a mystery to me.

Correct Morgan was in one (if not two?) training camps, believe he was injured as a result of one of them ,but clearly didn't do enough to impress.

[fivepointer]

Morgan has been very good this season. One of the Prems form players i'd say. I reckon his game has developed as touch, featuring a little more distribution and a higher work rate.
is he a viable option for England? Possibly, though there are others that are likely ahead of him.

[Banquo]

Premiership form means nothing to Banquo either based upon his last post.

Not quite, but I don't think its necessarily great indicator as to ability to thrive at intl level; I suppose its the only relative guide we have. Nice strawman.

What's your assessment of the standard of the GP?

[Scrumhead]

It’s a pointless debate as there is almost no chance of Morgan featuring for England again.

The selection criteria is the part that rankles for me.

There are a number of former England internationals who are clearly desperate to play for England again and are performing at a level that should warrant consideration, but they are largely ignored. When that’s generally in favour of SH imports that are not obviously superior and not playing better, it feels a little $hitty.

I have respect for Morgan in particular for doing all he can to get back into the squad but not moaning when he’s not. Compare that to the behaviour of someone like Carl ‘I’m the next best after Billy’ Fearns for example.

[Digby]

Premiership form means nothing to Banquo either based upon his last post.

He's the Midge Ure of these boards

[Mellsblue]

Premiership form means nothing to Banquo either based upon his last post.

He's the Midge Ure of these boards

Have you ever seen Banquo, Jones and Midge Ure in the same room? I rest my case.

[Banquo]

Premiership form means nothing to Banquo either based upon his last post.

He's the Midge Ure of these boards

Have you ever seen Banquo, Jones and Midge Ure in the same room? I rest my case.

Slik work

[Scrumhead]

Premiership form means nothing to Banquo either based upon his last post.

Not quite, but I don't think its necessarily great indicator as to ability to thrive at intl level; I suppose its the only relative guide we have. Nice strawman.

What's your assessment of the standard of the GP?

It depends upon how we’re judging it. Entertainment-wise, in the main, I think it’s pretty good. That probably says as much about the quality of defending as it does about the attacking skills on display, but you could level the same criticism at Super Rugby.

Also, from a fans’ perspective, the top test players actually play in our leagues unlike the handful of games the top Irish and Welsh players see in the Pro14. This isn’t as good from a player welfare POV (and I think we have things to learn in that respect), but as an entertainment product, it does make a difference.

Tactically, it’s a bit of a lottery. Some teams, Exeter being the prime example, have a very defined style of play, while other teams it’s hard to tell what they’re trying to achieve from game to game.

I agree that it’s not a great indicator of test suitability, but it’s what we have and I’m uncomfortable with the idea that players who don’t demonstrate any kind of form being called-up for unfathomable reasons.