Team for Italy

[Banquo]

Is T'eo not just bench cover in case Nowell is unfit? If so, why is it not Devoto?

Thorley is staying on in case Nowell isn't fit, but as there are 27, don't think he'll get a spot

[twitchy]

Teo has shown on multiple occasions that he is very effective at test level. I don't really see what the problem people have with him unless you are a wuss fan.

Thorley is brilliant. Just a matter of time before he nails down an england spot. Having him coka and may going forward is amazing really, spoiled for choice.

[Oakboy]

Teo has shown on multiple occasions that he is very effective at test level. I don't really see what the problem people have with him unless you are a wuss fan.

Thorley is brilliant. Just a matter of time before he nails down an england spot. Having him coka and may going forward is amazing really, spoiled for choice.

Potentially, based on under-20s games I've seen, Ibitoye should be the best of the lot, assuming that he makes the right sort of progress.

[Scrumhead]

Ibitoye is great with the ball, but his defence needs quite a bit of work. He has all the goods if he can fix his d, but he’d be a liability ATM. Thorley looks far more test-ready.

[Stom]

Is T'eo not just bench cover in case Nowell is unfit? If so, why is it not Devoto?

Cos Te’o is a better player than Devoto?

Is he really, though? I mean, well, he has 0 form as he's...not played any rugby. At all.

[Digby]

Teo has shown on multiple occasions that he is very effective at test level. I don't really see what the problem people have with him unless you are a wuss fan.

Te'o, especially off the bench, has reached a standard perhaps best described as adequate, Joseph has shown so much more it's not even vaguely funny

[Stom]

Ibitoye is great with the ball, but his defence needs quite a bit of work. He has all the goods if he can fix his d, but he’d be a liability ATM. Thorley looks far more test-ready.

TBH, he's not that bad. He's not in the same league as Wade or Mallinder. He'll come good and he's looked very good when he's played this year.

We seriously have some talent...Nowell needs to move to FB if he wants games... Coka, Thorley and Ibitoye to add to Daly and May... Plus Watson and Nowell.

[Mellsblue]

I honestly don’t see what Te’o brings to the party. He does run into the nearest oppo very well but I’m sure we can find other ways of achieving that if Manu is injured.
Why don’t we just ask Devoto, who is only 2kg lighter, to do the same thing, with the possibility he might actually do so play making at some point.

[Stom]

I honestly don’t see what Te’o brings to the party. He does run into the nearest oppo very well but I’m sure we can find other ways of achieving that if Manu is injured.
Why don’t we just ask Devoto, who is only 2kg lighter, to do the same thing, with the possibility he might actually do so play making at some point.

You're joking right? Ollie Devoto is neither from New Zealand (or SA), played league, nor can he jump in a lineout. He's only there to hold a tackle bag!

[Oakboy]

Ibitoye is great with the ball, but his defence needs quite a bit of work. He has all the goods if he can fix his d, but he’d be a liability ATM. Thorley looks far more test-ready.

Fair enough but if he is reasonably intelligent does it take that long to coach adequate defence? He's hardly a wimp and he's got pace to burn. I haven't seen him for his club so cannot comment further. It's just that from what I saw in under-20s games, if he doesn't make the grade quickly I'd be wondering about the club, not him.

[Mellsblue]

I honestly don’t see what Te’o brings to the party. He does run into the nearest oppo very well but I’m sure we can find other ways of achieving that if Manu is injured.
Why don’t we just ask Devoto, who is only 2kg lighter, to do the same thing, with the possibility he might actually do so play making at some point.

You're joking right? Ollie Devoto is neither from New Zealand (or SA), played league, nor can he jump in a lineout. He's only there to hold a tackle bag!

Apologies. I don’t know what I was thinking.

[Oakboy]

I honestly don’t see what Te’o brings to the party. He does run into the nearest oppo very well but I’m sure we can find other ways of achieving that if Manu is injured.
Why don’t we just ask Devoto, who is only 2kg lighter, to do the same thing, with the possibility he might actually do so play making at some point.

Ah, but remember, Slade is only there to make dummy runs and touch the ball 2 or 3 times (when he is to kick it immediately), so why would Devoto even dream of play-making?

[Stom]

Ibitoye is great with the ball, but his defence needs quite a bit of work. He has all the goods if he can fix his d, but he’d be a liability ATM. Thorley looks far more test-ready.

Fair enough but if he is reasonably intelligent does it take that long to coach adequate defence? He's hardly a wimp and he's got pace to burn. I haven't seen him for his club so cannot comment further. It's just that from what I saw in under-20s games, if he doesn't make the grade quickly I'd be wondering about the club, not him.

Players who step up from u20 straight to the test team are rare. Very rare. Don't rush him, he'll come.

[Mellsblue]

I honestly don’t see what Te’o brings to the party. He does run into the nearest oppo very well but I’m sure we can find other ways of achieving that if Manu is injured.
Why don’t we just ask Devoto, who is only 2kg lighter, to do the same thing, with the possibility he might actually do so play making at some point.

Ah, but remember, Slade is only there to make dummy runs and touch the ball 2 or 3 times (when he is to kick it immediately), so why would Devoto even dream of play-making?

Apologies. I don’t know what I was thinking!!

[Mikey Brown]

Teo has shown on multiple occasions that he is very effective at test level. I don't really see what the problem people have with him unless you are a wuss fan.

He's looked good off the bench. Has he ever looked good starting a test? You could argue the same of Care in the EJ era.

[Banquo]

Teo has shown on multiple occasions that he is very effective at test level. I don't really see what the problem people have with him unless you are a wuss fan.

Thorley is brilliant. Just a matter of time before he nails down an england spot. Having him coka and may going forward is amazing really, spoiled for choice.

and Daly, a superb wing.

[Scrumhead]

Ibitoye is great with the ball, but his defence needs quite a bit of work. He has all the goods if he can fix his d, but he’d be a liability ATM. Thorley looks far more test-ready.

Fair enough but if he is reasonably intelligent does it take that long to coach adequate defence? He's hardly a wimp and he's got pace to burn. I haven't seen him for his club so cannot comment further. It's just that from what I saw in under-20s games, if he doesn't make the grade quickly I'd be wondering about the club, not him.

Players who step up from u20 straight to the test team are rare. Very rare. Don't rush him, he'll come.

I’m not suggesting Ibitoye can’t or won’t improve his defending. I’m just saying that I wouldn’t want to throw him in to a test situation until he has done so. I’m a big fan and I’m sure he will get there (and pretty quickly).

While I do think Thorley is still a bit raw, I think he’s a lot closer to being ready now than Ibitoye which isn’t surprising given he’s played almost three times as many senior games.

[Mikey Brown]

I’ll be doing a poll soon for my fake team announcement. What would we like to see? No Genge or Robson? Te’o at 13 outside Manu? A 6/2 split with Ford dropped perhaps?

[Mellsblue]

6:2 split on the bench with Ford covering 9 & 10. Too outlandish? Ask Wisemantel:

There may just be another side to all this (no Robson off the bench against Wales), which Wisemantel touched on yesterday. Youngs has played two sets of 80 minutes in this Six Nations.

“There’s a long-term vision there as well,” he said. “We want our half backs to be able to go 80.”

His meaning? “If you want to go to a 6-2 bench, sometimes you’ve got to experiment.”

Fascinating. England are pondering a bench with six forwards and two backs. This is an alternative to the more regular balance of five forwards and three backs. Six forwards allows a team more weight and power in reserve.

If England want their half backs to go the full 80 minutes, as Wisemantel said, then they are toying with the possibility of not picking a reserve No 9 on the bench.

To the obvious question — who would then play No 9 if Youngs gets injured? — there is only one answer: George Ford. “That’s a possibility, yeah,” Wisemantel said. “You have to explore all those options. You have to think about the bigger picture, rather than just focus on the obvious. George is in that mould. He could fill that role.”

From today’s times.

[Mikey Brown]

Sounds slightly like someone putting words in his mouth, but I struggle to think how Ford would be worse.

Youngs often passes very well in open play, and often (consistently you might say) passes atrociously off the floor so maybe that's a consideration, but Ford is just so much more talented with the timing and accuracy of his passing.

Poor Robson though if that actually were to happen. What could he possibly have done that would get him a legitimate shot?

Also who is it we would be so keen to fit on the bench? I can understand wanting both Underhill/Curry in a 23 as well as specialist 8 cover, but you can only imagine it's Shields & Hughes that can't possibly miss out.

[Stom]

lol.

I can just see it now. We can go from the bench of "game-changers" to...

Hartley, Moon, Cole, Ewels, Shields, Hughes, Ford, Nowell

lol.

[Danno]

This is becoming Burtesque

[Digby]

Outside the scrum the 9 is the most specialist role going, even allowing for the scrum it might be the most specialised overall

[Mellsblue]

Now I’ve reeled everyone in. This is the next section of the article:

This, Wisemantel said, remains merely an idea, an option. It is not as if it is going to be unveiled against Italy. Ford has not been training at No 9.

And, no, Ford has had barely any experience at No 9. Back in his Bath days he had to fill in once when the scrum half was sent to the sin-bin. This is his recollection of that day: “I think I did all right, nothing out of the ordinary: ball in the scrum, hit a box-kick, a few decent passes. Everyone was saying, ‘You should be a No 9.’ I was, ‘No, I’m all right, thanks.’ ”

[morepork]

That is some medieval bench logic in this day and age. What next? Strychnine enemas and mercury polstice to stouten the constitution? Why not some homeopathic drills?