Can we please ban the caterpillar ruck

[Digby]

the ball is often out of the ruck when players get penalised, imo as soon as the 9/'dummy half' touches it, its fair game for the defence.

My assumption in advance is that's too harsh a standard, however if they're not willing to state the ball is available much faster and insist it be played much faster it could for my money then be looked at

[Mikey Brown]

I also like the thing where a team is running pick and goes, you have the carrier literally resting with both hands and all his weight on the ball, waiting for someone to edge offside and be told to retreat, then can simply flop forwards onto the floor. Now that’s what I call rugby.

[Digby]

I also like the thing where a team is running pick and goes, you have the carrier literally resting with both hands and all his weight on the ball, waiting for someone to edge offside and be told to retreat, then can simply flop forwards onto the floor. Now that’s what I call rugby.

Not so many days back that attack was good enough to beat England and Wales fans were quite happy with such approach (given the win)

[Banquo]

the ball is often out of the ruck when players get penalised, imo as soon as the 9/'dummy half' touches it, its fair game for the defence.

My assumption in advance is that's too harsh a standard, however if they're not willing to state the ball is available much faster and insist it be played much faster it could for my money then be looked at

why is that too harsh a standard.....are you being typical '9' about this

[Stom]

the ball is often out of the ruck when players get penalised, imo as soon as the 9/'dummy half' touches it, its fair game for the defence.

My assumption in advance is that's too harsh a standard, however if they're not willing to state the ball is available much faster and insist it be played much faster it could for my money then be looked at

why is that too harsh a standard.....are you being typical '9' about this

He's just being himself. He probably doesn't even know what the discussion is about, just wants to disagree for disagreement's sake.

[Digby]

the ball is often out of the ruck when players get penalised, imo as soon as the 9/'dummy half' touches it, its fair game for the defence.

My assumption in advance is that's too harsh a standard, however if they're not willing to state the ball is available much faster and insist it be played much faster it could for my money then be looked at

why is that too harsh a standard.....are you being typical '9' about this

In part yes, but sometimes the ball really isn't available to play just because you've touched it. So I'd prefer my change in the first instance between what we have now and your more radical change, but if the alternative is the status quo I'd prefer seeing how your suggestion goes

Your suggestion is going to impact carrier, tackler and anyone coming into the ruck affecting presentation

Would you also say and hands in the ruck means the ball is played?

[Banquo]

My assumption in advance is that's too harsh a standard, however if they're not willing to state the ball is available much faster and insist it be played much faster it could for my money then be looked at

why is that too harsh a standard.....are you being typical '9' about this

In part yes, but sometimes the ball really isn't available to play just because you've touched it. So I'd prefer my change in the first instance between what we have now and your more radical change, but if the alternative is the status quo I'd prefer seeing how your suggestion goes

Your suggestion is going to impact carrier, tackler and anyone coming into the ruck affecting presentation

Would you also say and hands in the ruck means the ball is played?

Not sure I understand what you mean by your last sentence?

I guess there is the point that sometimes a 9 has to dig the ball out himself, and could be scragged as he/she is doing so.....

[Digby]

why is that too harsh a standard.....are you being typical '9' about this

In part yes, but sometimes the ball really isn't available to play just because you've touched it. So I'd prefer my change in the first instance between what we have now and your more radical change, but if the alternative is the status quo I'd prefer seeing how your suggestion goes

Your suggestion is going to impact carrier, tackler and anyone coming into the ruck affecting presentation

Would you also say and hands in the ruck means the ball is played?

Not sure I understand what you mean by your last sentence?

I guess there is the point that sometimes a 9 has to dig the ball out himself, and could be scragged as he/she is doing so.....

If the 9 going digging for the ball is taken as ball being played would anyone's hands on the ball mean the ball is available to contest?

Yes we're not supposed to see hands being used in the ruck but in practice it's often needed to keep the game moving

[Banquo]

In part yes, but sometimes the ball really isn't available to play just because you've touched it. So I'd prefer my change in the first instance between what we have now and your more radical change, but if the alternative is the status quo I'd prefer seeing how your suggestion goes

Your suggestion is going to impact carrier, tackler and anyone coming into the ruck affecting presentation

Would you also say and hands in the ruck means the ball is played?

Not sure I understand what you mean by your last sentence?

I guess there is the point that sometimes a 9 has to dig the ball out himself, and could be scragged as he/she is doing so.....

If the 9 going digging for the ball is taken as ball being played would anyone's hands on the ball mean the ball is available to contest?

Yes we're not supposed to see hands being used in the ruck but in practice it's often needed to keep the game moving

I guess I'd go for much cleaner rucks then, be a nice result....as you say, it would affect all those coming into the rucks. I did waffle a bit earlier about hands being used to ensure better presentation of the ball, when clearly the player shouldn't be.

[Digby]

Certainly touching the ball meaning it's out is a big change, and one that teams would adapt to as months progressed. It'd have to come in right after a WC to allow time to consider the results of such a change, the trials rarely give enough understanding

[Cameo]

While we are having a moan, what about advantage nowadays. Some ref seem to think it goes on until a side scores or wins another penalty. Several times recently I have seen refs have to runs back from almost the 22 back beyond the half way line to come back for a penalty.

I get that a penalty is very valuable but it is dull watching so much rugby where only one side can really gain. You are left wondering whether it is even worth trying to win the ball back.

Haven't thought this through but how about a 5 phase limit (on top of existing measures of advantage). No need to kick it away first phase every time like wales the other week but you cant have a free attack for two minutes. If you would rather the penalty just say or drop the ball

[Danno]

While we are having a moan, what about advantage nowadays. Some ref seem to think it goes on until a side scores or wins another penalty. Several times recently I have seen refs have to runs back from almost the 22 back beyond the half way line to come back for a penalty.

I get that a penalty is very valuable but it is dull watching so much rugby where only one side can really gain. You are left wondering whether it is even worth trying to win the ball back.

Haven't thought this through but how about a 5 phase limit (on top of existing measures of advantage). No need to kick it away first phase every time like wales the other week but you cant have a free attack for two minutes. If you would rather the penalty just say or drop the ball

Could be worth a topic of its own. Nigel Owens had a bit to say about this on a recent Brian Moore podcast, I found it interesting.

[Oakboy]

While we are having a moan, what about advantage nowadays. Some ref seem to think it goes on until a side scores or wins another penalty. Several times recently I have seen refs have to runs back from almost the 22 back beyond the half way line to come back for a penalty.

I get that a penalty is very valuable but it is dull watching so much rugby where only one side can really gain. You are left wondering whether it is even worth trying to win the ball back.

Haven't thought this through but how about a 5 phase limit (on top of existing measures of advantage). No need to kick it away first phase every time like wales the other week but you cant have a free attack for two minutes. If you would rather the penalty just say or drop the ball

Could be worth a topic of its own. Nigel Owens had a bit to say about this on a recent Brian Moore podcast, I found it interesting.

It's very rare for penalty advantage to be called over just on in-possession territorial gain these days. 20 metres and/or 5 phases seems reasonable.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I actually believe the quality of reffing now is the highest it has ever been. The guys at the top level are generally very good. Goodness knows it is a fiendishly difficult job that is impossible to be anything like 100% accurate. You will always get close calls and highly marginal decisions.
My real gripe is when easy fixes are ignored. The caterpillar could be easily dealt with and backfoot offside - which is seldom picked up - could be easily policed by the assistants. Why isnt it?
Another current bugbear is players going off their feet and sealing the ball at a breakdown. Again this isnt the hardest thing to spot and penalise, but it seems to never get picked up.
And yet an arm on an opponent at a line out is spotted and every scrum that goes down, backwards or wheels results in a penalty, when its not at all obvious who is the offender.

Agree with that, largely. And the referees tend to be more consistent between them and over time. Alain Rolland is obviously doing a superb job.

[zer0]

A bunch of stuff here that I agree with. To add to the list, can we also make halfbacks stand behind their #8 at scrums? Defences already have it easy enough as is. The last thing we need are those cretins flailing their arms and legs around like an epileptic octopus just to try and interfere with a pass or pick-up from the base.

[Digby]

Alain Rolland is obviously doing a superb job.

I nearly bit, but concluded on balance that was probably just rancid bait

[Mikey Brown]

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/joe-marl ... er-wallaby

[Mellsblue]

Brilliant. I think most/all rugby fans would agree with him.