Mellsblue wrote:
No. Il pick up the mistakes of the untouchables, one of which is captain and perennially shortlisted for world player of the year, because I’m watching the match whilst trying to type on my phone. If you want a thousand word dissection of the game then a match thread on an internet message board is the wrong place to look.
Word count doesn’t matter. But focusing on obvious easy targets and negating other issues shows a lack of awareness. Farrell, Youngs and any other usual suspect alone did not create that result in isolation. The issue was far wider. You’ve chosen the lazy path. So be it.
I have chosen the lazy path. I’m sat in an armchair watching the match on a tv. Typing out little snippets with my hand resting on the arm of said chair. I couldn’t be any lazier. No lazier than your assumption that we don’t enough rugby or play rugby.
Funnily, JW and Geech seemed to focus on the same issue most of us covered on here. Poor decision making from the halfbacks and senior players and an unacceptable second half performance which, taken along with the Wales match, is pretty troubling. Still, they probably don’t watch enough rugby.
I’ll say again. I’m on an internet message board typing on my phone, I’m not going to cover all aspects of the performance. I’m fully aware of all aspects of the game.
By your reaction to our throw away comments on here, I suspect you’re actually angrier about that performance than I am.
No I'm not as I can empathise with that performance. It is tough to handle pressure, when the importance of a game shifts even before you've kicked a ball and even then tghe game ebbs in your favour massively. Am I happy? No. It was far from ideal. But that empathy helps me avoid knee-jerking or picking easy outs. Looking for symptoms rather than root cause.
You're on a message board so expect rebuff. Expect challenge. Expect people to scratch the surface of your points and knowledge to explore depth and understanding.
Epaminondas Pules wrote:
The point I’m making is the armchair punditry on here makes no mention of it. Does not factor it at all, as if international rugby was a simple thing.
We won!! World Cup contenders!
We lost! End of the world!
Same with individual players.
That is just bollix. We cannot be any good if we throw away that HT lead no matter how you might wish to factor in issues that YOU wish to highlight. We/you can argue about multiple factors, mental or physical, but the scoreboard does not lie.
Any side with serious RWC pretensions should have won the 2nd half as well as the 1st. Emotion does enter into it. Exaggeration breeds from disappointment but, no matter how you wrap it up, there are no excuses for that sort of failure. Drawing with that Scottish team at home most definitely IS failure.
It really isn't. If you can't think about momentum shifts in sport and what happens mentally and collectively when that happens then you're a long way off point. Equally, not factoring how much the importance of todays game shifted during the day and how that affects players mentally shows a lack of empathy and understanding. It is not in itself an excuse, but something that should be factored in.
if you negate the mental aspects of sport then you negate a massive part of what differentiates between winning and losing.
We still lost and in a manner that has become something of a pattern over the last few years.
Do you think the team can rectify their poor mental reaction to shifts before and during games in time for Japan?
Oakboy wrote:
That is just bollix. We cannot be any good if we throw away that HT lead no matter how you might wish to factor in issues that YOU wish to highlight. We/you can argue about multiple factors, mental or physical, but the scoreboard does not lie.
Any side with serious RWC pretensions should have won the 2nd half as well as the 1st. Emotion does enter into it. Exaggeration breeds from disappointment but, no matter how you wrap it up, there are no excuses for that sort of failure. Drawing with that Scottish team at home most definitely IS failure.
It really isn't. If you can't think about momentum shifts in sport and what happens mentally and collectively when that happens then you're a long way off point. Equally, not factoring how much the importance of todays game shifted during the day and how that affects players mentally shows a lack of empathy and understanding. It is not in itself an excuse, but something that should be factored in.
if you negate the mental aspects of sport then you negate a massive part of what differentiates between winning and losing.
We still lost and in a manner that has become something of a pattern over the last few years.
Do you think the team can rectify their poor mental reaction to shifts before and during games in time for Japan?
Well, we didn't lose for a start.
Today is a kind of artificial construct in terms of a world cup due to the nature of the league structure, which is only replicated in the group stage, which basically comes down to simply winning two games.
The potential fragility we have displayed mentally and also in the backroom of altering the dynamics on the pitch is worrying, definitely. The core components are there to make a success of things and it is too easy to point at the second half of Wales and Scotland whilst negating 80 mins against Ireland. Overall there are weaknesses that can be our undoing. We should be further along in ironing them out, but as with 2003, that does just magically happen. It has to click in some way, much of which is mental. Pinpointing the mechanism to make such a 'click' is the art form of coaching.
Word count doesn’t matter. But focusing on obvious easy targets and negating other issues shows a lack of awareness. Farrell, Youngs and any other usual suspect alone did not create that result in isolation. The issue was far wider. You’ve chosen the lazy path. So be it.
I have chosen the lazy path. I’m sat in an armchair watching the match on a tv. Typing out little snippets with my hand resting on the arm of said chair. I couldn’t be any lazier. No lazier than your assumption that we don’t enough rugby or play rugby.
Funnily, JW and Geech seemed to focus on the same issue most of us covered on here. Poor decision making from the halfbacks and senior players and an unacceptable second half performance which, taken along with the Wales match, is pretty troubling. Still, they probably don’t watch enough rugby.
I’ll say again. I’m on an internet message board typing on my phone, I’m not going to cover all aspects of the performance. I’m fully aware of all aspects of the game.
By your reaction to our throw away comments on here, I suspect you’re actually angrier about that performance than I am.
No I'm not as I can empathise with that performance. It is tough to handle pressure, when the importance of a game shifts even before you've kicked a ball and even then tghe game ebbs in your favour massively. Am I happy? No. It was far from ideal. But that empathy helps me avoid knee-jerking or picking easy outs. Looking for symptoms rather than root cause.
You're on a message board so expect rebuff. Expect challenge. Expect people to scratch the surface of your points and knowledge to explore depth and understanding.
I do expect challenge and I’m replying to them. I work and volunteer in very challenge orientated worlds.
What I don’t expect or like is you to come on here and start telling us we don’t watch enough rugby it haven’t ever played the game. That is the laziest action available to someone on a message board.
Feel free to scratch the surface of our understanding but that is usual, and successfully, done by asking questions not just making accusations or accusing people of missing stuff. You’re making assumptions not challenging.
Regardless, I want to say thank you. I posted earlier saying I was back to being emotionless about the England team. Thanks to you I’m not. I’m effing pissed off that we are so often less than the sun of our parts. Be it physically, metally or emotionally.
It really isn't. If you can't think about momentum shifts in sport and what happens mentally and collectively when that happens then you're a long way off point. Equally, not factoring how much the importance of todays game shifted during the day and how that affects players mentally shows a lack of empathy and understanding. It is not in itself an excuse, but something that should be factored in.
if you negate the mental aspects of sport then you negate a massive part of what differentiates between winning and losing.
We still lost and in a manner that has become something of a pattern over the last few years.
Do you think the team can rectify their poor mental reaction to shifts before and during games in time for Japan?
Well, we didn't lose for a start.
Today is a kind of artificial construct in terms of a world cup due to the nature of the league structure, which is only replicated in the group stage, which basically comes down to simply winning two games.
The potential fragility we have displayed mentally and also in the backroom of altering the dynamics on the pitch is worrying, definitely. The core components are there to make a success of things and it is too easy to point at the second half of Wales and Scotland whilst negating 80 mins against Ireland. Overall there are weaknesses that can be our undoing. We should be further along in ironing them out, but as with 2003, that does just magically happen. It has to click in some way, much of which is mental. Pinpointing the mechanism to make such a 'click' is the art form of coaching.
Ha. True! Bloody feels like it, though.
I agree with most of your last para. However, I’m not convinced it will just click. It’s a recurring issue. That said, I hope your are right but there aren’t any crunch matches for it to happen before RWC. Just got to hope it’ll be ‘alright on the night’
Epaminondas Pules wrote:How often did 2003 team 'choke' before that they became truly successful?
Plenty but they corrected it before the tournament began.
Anyway, I’m off until tomorrow/later. Can you believe I’m sat in my car, in a supermarket car park arguing about rugby on the internet mid pizza and beer run. That is mentally fragile!
Mellsblue wrote:
I have chosen the lazy path. I’m sat in an armchair watching the match on a tv. Typing out little snippets with my hand resting on the arm of said chair. I couldn’t be any lazier. No lazier than your assumption that we don’t enough rugby or play rugby.
Funnily, JW and Geech seemed to focus on the same issue most of us covered on here. Poor decision making from the halfbacks and senior players and an unacceptable second half performance which, taken along with the Wales match, is pretty troubling. Still, they probably don’t watch enough rugby.
I’ll say again. I’m on an internet message board typing on my phone, I’m not going to cover all aspects of the performance. I’m fully aware of all aspects of the game.
By your reaction to our throw away comments on here, I suspect you’re actually angrier about that performance than I am.
No I'm not as I can empathise with that performance. It is tough to handle pressure, when the importance of a game shifts even before you've kicked a ball and even then tghe game ebbs in your favour massively. Am I happy? No. It was far from ideal. But that empathy helps me avoid knee-jerking or picking easy outs. Looking for symptoms rather than root cause.
You're on a message board so expect rebuff. Expect challenge. Expect people to scratch the surface of your points and knowledge to explore depth and understanding.
I do expect challenge and I’m replying to them. I work and volunteer in very challenge orientated worlds.
What I don’t expect or like is you to come on here and start telling us we don’t watch enough rugby it haven’t ever played the game. That is the laziest action available to someone on a message board.
Feel free to scratch the surface of our understanding but that is usual, and successfully, done by asking questions not just making accusations or accusing people of missing stuff. You’re making assumptions not challenging.
Regardless, I want to say thank you. I posted earlier saying I was back to being emotionless about the England team. Thanks to you I’m not. I’m effing pissed off that we are so often less than the sun of our parts. Be it physically, metally or emotionally.
OK. I'm happy for you. Maybe try sit ups and then watch a film or something else to chill.
There was a thread recently where a number of people stated they were getting bored of rugby and barely watched it, which kind of sits against commenting on the fucking thing, especially when it comes to players, and form and shite like that. I know you watch Champ rugby at Beds, so it is not specifically you, but for me, when talking about or commenting on a subject it is useful to have relevant or up to date knowledge.
As an example, there'll be a number of people on here who will talk about Alfie Barbeary as a decent prospect. I'll wager the number of posters who have actually seen him play (beyond 10 mins yesterday) is exceedingly small. Maybe even one. Kind of boils me when on one hand people don't watch rugby and on the other have a cast iron viewpoint.
Last edited by Epaminondas Pules on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Epaminondas Pules wrote:How often did 2003 team 'choke' before that they became truly successful?
Plenty but they corrected it before the tournament began.
Anyway, I’m off until tomorrow/later. Can you believe I’m sat in my car, in a supermarket car park arguing about rugby on the internet mid pizza and beer run. That is mentally fragile!
well get some more fucking beer dude and enjoy your evening!
Mellsblue wrote:
We still lost and in a manner that has become something of a pattern over the last few years.
Do you think the team can rectify their poor mental reaction to shifts before and during games in time for Japan?
Well, we didn't lose for a start.
Today is a kind of artificial construct in terms of a world cup due to the nature of the league structure, which is only replicated in the group stage, which basically comes down to simply winning two games.
The potential fragility we have displayed mentally and also in the backroom of altering the dynamics on the pitch is worrying, definitely. The core components are there to make a success of things and it is too easy to point at the second half of Wales and Scotland whilst negating 80 mins against Ireland. Overall there are weaknesses that can be our undoing. We should be further along in ironing them out, but as with 2003, that does just magically happen. It has to click in some way, much of which is mental. Pinpointing the mechanism to make such a 'click' is the art form of coaching.
Ha. True! Bloody feels like it, though.
I agree with most of your last para. However, I’m not convinced it will just click. It’s a recurring issue. That said, I hope your are right but there aren’t any crunch matches for it to happen before RWC. Just got to hope it’ll be ‘alright on the night’
Totally agree man. We should ideally be further along. But you never know. Seems we're not the only ones with issues, or a weak underbelly.
Epaminondas Pules wrote:
No I'm not as I can empathise with that performance. It is tough to handle pressure, when the importance of a game shifts even before you've kicked a ball and even then tghe game ebbs in your favour massively. Am I happy? No. It was far from ideal. But that empathy helps me avoid knee-jerking or picking easy outs. Looking for symptoms rather than root cause.
You're on a message board so expect rebuff. Expect challenge. Expect people to scratch the surface of your points and knowledge to explore depth and understanding.
I do expect challenge and I’m replying to them. I work and volunteer in very challenge orientated worlds.
What I don’t expect or like is you to come on here and start telling us we don’t watch enough rugby it haven’t ever played the game. That is the laziest action available to someone on a message board.
Feel free to scratch the surface of our understanding but that is usual, and successfully, done by asking questions not just making accusations or accusing people of missing stuff. You’re making assumptions not challenging.
Regardless, I want to say thank you. I posted earlier saying I was back to being emotionless about the England team. Thanks to you I’m not. I’m effing pissed off that we are so often less than the sun of our parts. Be it physically, metally or emotionally.
OK. I'm happy for you. Maybe try sit ups and then watch a film or something else to chill.
There was a thread recently where a number of people stated they were getting bored of rugby and barely watched it, which kind of sits against commenting on the fucking thing, especially when it comes to players, and form and shite like that. I know you watch Champ rugby at Beds, so it is not specifically you, but for me, when talking about or commenting on a subject it is useful to have relevant or up to date knowledge.
As an example, there'll be a number of people on here who will talk about Alfie Barbeary as a decent prospect. I'll wager the number of posters who have actually seen him play (beyond 10 mins yesterday) is exceedingly small. Maybe even one. Kind of boils me when on one hand people don't watch rugby and on the other have a cast iron viewpoint.
I was one of those, yet I still watch at least two game a week, inc a live one. Not sure your assumptions help the conversation overly, but then I suspect I'm confusing you with someone who gives a crap
This is why he is a shit coach. Tell the team they have "mental problem" ??! No. You take it on the chin and say the team did great. I let them down with poor half time advice and miss-timed changes. This one's on me.
Does this reduce the demand for the wisdom of a coach from the SH? England and Ireland going through problems and Wales playing Gatball doesn’t say much for them
"Wales playing Gatball " ?? Wales look pretty good. I'd fancy them to beat about anyone in the world right now. Even NZ, if they got a few lucky breaks.
Just back after a strenuous afternoon at the pub. Extraordinary game. Looking at the last 5 mins again > should Ford be the "iceman"? Great penalty kick to the corner, then the try...
[ Buggaluggs wrote]
"Wales look pretty good. I'd fancy them to beat about anyone in the world right now. Even NZ, if they got a few lucky breaks."
Indeed and congrats, But any of the top 6 could beat any of the others - "if they got a few lucky breaks."
Good for the game, I suppose!
well get some more fucking beer dude and enjoy your evening!
