Reflections on England backrow

[jngf]

It’s been a while but it’s nice to see a balanced England back row with (subject to injury) 6 options of Robshaw /Wilson /Shields, 8 options of Billy and Nathan with Underhill and T. Curry both excelling at open side (and providing a real carrying threat there reminding me of how Tom Rees used to play). There’s an obvious emphasis on power and physicality with these options without the need to pick the biggest back row players going to do so (remember the race to pick the biggest player possible at 7 a few seasons back? ) Just wonder if a flier like Simmonds or Clifford would offer an additional bit of pace and panache to what we already have in the squad - though I expect this will have to wait till after World Cup?

[Puja]

Not to mention Jack Willis who I can see forcing his way into contention.

Puja

[Stom]

As this is the BR thread, we may as well list our options...

Wilson
Shields
Robshaw
Clifford
Hill
TCurry
BCurry
Underhill
Willis
Ludlam
Ludlow
BillyV
Hughes
Mercer
Simmonds
Dombrandt
WillisJr

Now some of them are more ready than others and 2 of them should be out of the squad, but my my, that is some group of players.

Plus the invariable missed players.

[Digby]

What is an invariable missed player?

[Mikey Brown]

He meant Ben Morgan but didn't want to piss off Banquo.

[Stom]

What is an invariable missed player?

We've all mistyped sometimys Dibge. It happyns.

[TheDasher]

Simmonds makes a lot of sense off the bench, covering the whole back row basically.

Aside from that, others are going to have to work hard... Curry has been outstanding and Wilson a revelation.

As Puja says, Willis might force his way in there as he's an incredible talent.

[Scrumhead]

Simmonds definitely would add a completely different dynamic off the bench, but I can’t see him getting the call from Eddie, particularly considering he’ll have little/no time to get back in to form following his injury.

My only worry at the moment is that Eddie seems to see Shields and Hughes as options at lock as well as in the back row and seems to favour this over an actual lock on the bench.

We might get away with that if a game is already won (see Ireland) or against the less dangerous pool opponents but I definitely wouldn’t want to rely on it if one of our locks were to go down early as Moon did this weekend.

I’d also like to see us try an alternative back row without Billy in it. In form, he’s an automatic selection, but gems not quite there ATM. I’d argue that our back row looked decent in the Autumn with Wilson at 8 - not forgetting that we also didn’t have the carrying benefit of Mako or Tuilagi then. If Billy’s form remains a bit indifferent, I’d be in favour of us trying Underhill, Curry and Wilson with Billy as an impact sub in a warm up game to see how we fare.

[Stom]

Simmonds definitely would add a completely different dynamic off the bench, but I can’t see him getting the call from Eddie, particularly considering he’ll have little/no time to get back in to form following his injury.

My only worry at the moment is that Eddie seems to see Shields and Hughes as options at lock as well as in the back row and seems to favour this over an actual lock on the bench.

We might get away with that if a game is already won (see Ireland) or against the less dangerous pool opponents but I definitely wouldn’t want to rely on it if one of our locks were to go down early as Moon did this weekend.

I’d also like to see us try an alternative back row without Billy in it. In form, he’s an automatic selection, but gems not quite there ATM. I’d argue that our back row looked decent in the Autumn with Wilson at 8 - not forgetting that we also didn’t have the carrying benefit of Mako or Tuilagi then. If Billy’s form remains a bit indifferent, I’d be in favour of us trying Underhill, Curry and Wilson with Billy as an impact sub in a warm up game to see how we fare.

Tbf, trying them at lock makes sense when we're without Itoje and Lawes and unlikely to pick a 5th lock for the WC

[jngf]

How is Ludlum looking by the way?

[Puja]

How is Ludlum looking by the way?

He's been excellent for Northampton and nailed down a starting place under Boyd. However, he's not currently in the same league as either Curry or Willis on Premiership form.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Yeah, I’d go with that. Ludlam has been very good - physical, good at the breakdown, carries well and good at running support lines. He also captained Saints in their last Premiership fixture, so Boyd clearly rates him highly and I’m really pleased to see him finally make the breakthrough.

All that said, he’s not as good Curry, Underhill or Willis.

Probably outshone Ben Curry this season though.

[Digby]

Simmonds definitely would add a completely different dynamic off the bench, but I can’t see him getting the call from Eddie, particularly considering he’ll have little/no time to get back in to form following his injury.

My only worry at the moment is that Eddie seems to see Shields and Hughes as options at lock as well as in the back row and seems to favour this over an actual lock on the bench.

We might get away with that if a game is already won (see Ireland) or against the less dangerous pool opponents but I definitely wouldn’t want to rely on it if one of our locks were to go down early as Moon did this weekend.

I’d also like to see us try an alternative back row without Billy in it. In form, he’s an automatic selection, but gems not quite there ATM. I’d argue that our back row looked decent in the Autumn with Wilson at 8 - not forgetting that we also didn’t have the carrying benefit of Mako or Tuilagi then. If Billy’s form remains a bit indifferent, I’d be in favour of us trying Underhill, Curry and Wilson with Billy as an impact sub in a warm up game to see how we fare.

Tbf, trying them at lock makes sense when we're without Itoje and Lawes and unlikely to pick a 5th lock for the WC

Eddie seems to like a lot of locks or a lot of backrows but eschews a more even distribution in his selection

[Beasties]

Is this the right time to say I'm happier with Wilson at 6 than I ever was with Robshaw there? There's obv the fact that Curry has given the back row a far far better balance of course, as opposed to Robshaw struggling manfully but wearily to make the best of a bad job.

Why did you have to go and mention Tom Rees jngf? You've set me off again......

[Banquo]

Is this the right time to say I'm happier with Wilson at 6 than I ever was with Robshaw there? There's obv the fact that Curry has given the back row a far far better balance of course, as opposed to Robshaw struggling manfully but wearily to make the best of a bad job.

Why did you have to go and mention Tom Rees jngf? You've set me off again......

Wilson has been a revelation- no need to go back to Dad's Army Robshaw

[Scrumhead]

I’ve always been a fan of Robshaw, but Wilson does a similarly tidy job with a higher level of physicality and better carrying. He’s made the 6 shirt his own.

[Banquo]

I’ve always been a fan of Robshaw, but Wilson does a similarly tidy job with a higher level of physicality and better carrying. He’s made the 6 shirt his own.

He's also quicker I reckon.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I’ve always been a fan of Robshaw, but Wilson does a similarly tidy job with a higher level of physicality and better carrying. He’s made the 6 shirt his own.

He's also quicker I reckon.

So is my nan and she’s been dead for ten years!

[Banquo]

I’ve always been a fan of Robshaw, but Wilson does a similarly tidy job with a higher level of physicality and better carrying. He’s made the 6 shirt his own.

He's also quicker I reckon.

So is my nan and she’s been dead for ten years!

fair

[Mikey Brown]

I’ve always been a fan of Robshaw, but Wilson does a similarly tidy job with a higher level of physicality and better carrying. He’s made the 6 shirt his own.

Yep. I’m a little sad to say it as I really like Robshaw. But Wilson edges him in physicality, lineout, pace around the park and matches his insane work rate. I’m not sure if his hands are quite as good or he’s as good over the ball but there’s not much in it.

I’m certainly happier with Wilson taking his shirt than Shields.

[Stom]

I’ve always been a fan of Robshaw, but Wilson does a similarly tidy job with a higher level of physicality and better carrying. He’s made the 6 shirt his own.

Yep. I’m a little sad to say it as I really like Robshaw. But Wilson edges him in physicality, lineout, pace around the park and matches his insane work rate. I’m not sure if his hands are quite as good or he’s as good over the ball but there’s not much in it.

I’m certainly happier with Wilson taking his shirt than Shields.

Yeah. I think Robshaw was the player we needed when we needed him (though earlier, when he was the best 6 around would have been better...). Now, his skillset doesn't fit because we've got a rounded set of backrowers who don't need someone to cover for them.

[Scrumhead]

I’ve always been a fan of Robshaw, but Wilson does a similarly tidy job with a higher level of physicality and better carrying. He’s made the 6 shirt his own.

Yep. I’m a little sad to say it as I really like Robshaw. But Wilson edges him in physicality, lineout, pace around the park and matches his insane work rate. I’m not sure if his hands are quite as good or he’s as good over the ball but there’s not much in it.

I’m certainly happier with Wilson taking his shirt than Shields.

100%. I’d actually say Wilson is better over the ball than Robshaw. Certainly harder to shift anyway.