Owen Farrell

[Banquo]

Perhaps before that question Jones should be asking himself "Is Faz a better FH than George Ford?"

The trouble is that if he asks himself that, he should also ask 'who is our best FH?' The answer, quite simply, is Cipriani. Ford is arguably the 2nd best.

The snag, then, is that Farrell would not be in the match day 23. I can live with that but I doubt if Jones can. Punditry would implode.

Cipriani has always been my favourite as a player but that ship has sailed, not much point in mentioning him. To be fair to management, the guy's clearly not professional enough either. He's acted like child too many times to take seriously.

I also agree with this

[Mellsblue]

Yep. Very well constructed try. No wonder plays, just a flyhalf picking the correct option on the gain line phase after phase. The best bit was the kick for touch. Ford marked it with his heel, then took two steps forwards and then another five in the run up for his kick. Hehe.

[fivepointer]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... maro-itoje

the bandwagon just keeps on....er...rolling. Kitson simply talking sense and pointing out that winning sides have a forward as captain.

[Banquo]

Yep. Very well constructed try. No wonder plays, just a flyhalf picking the correct option on the gain line phase after phase. The best bit was the kick for touch. Ford marked it with his heel, then took two steps forwards and then another five in the run up for his kick. Hehe.

and it was a bloody good touchfinder from a less than ideal angle for a right footer (and they could have used Slade ).

[Digby]

You often focus on his left to right passing. I think that's the least of his worries. His passing has not proved a hindrance to this team imo. We've frankly been unrecognisably good in attack at times of late. I don't believe his lack of running threat at 10 is an issue either, although I believe it is at 12.

Game management has been the obvious issue. I suspect he's pretty arrogant and I also suspect Jones has given him too much of a free reign. I think he needs to be told when to tighten up and to slow things down, simple as that. I think he's capable of it. If he doesn't prove it in his next few opportunities, I'd move on from him. I'd pick Ford for the next game anyway.

I don't think we'll ever agree on Farrell Banquo .

On the captaincy bit, perhaps it is Itoje, or Kruis - I'm not sure. But Eddie should be all over this issue and finding a captain of required quality if there isn't one in his squad already.

I said it before, watch the buildup to Ford's try.



Just see how he manipulates the game...Farrell either chooses to never do that, or cannot...

Curry is exceptionally good also, in what is a an excellent piece of play from England.

Being a positive sort of chap what I see is Russell running out of the line to create a hole for Ford and Curry, huge commitment from blue 22 and then blue 7 not to put May into touch, and then Russell unable to slide onto Ford as he's blocked by Cole whilst the man outside Russell slides off Ford - in fairness crowd noise might well have overridden any attempt to communicate who needed to pick up Ford

It's competency perhaps from England,but not from Scotland

[Mellsblue]

All of the pundits on the Times rugby podcast put the same name forward, too.

[Danno]

That's likely scuppered Itoje's chances while EJ is around

[Banquo]

I said it before, watch the buildup to Ford's try.



Just see how he manipulates the game...Farrell either chooses to never do that, or cannot...

Curry is exceptionally good also, in what is a an excellent piece of play from England.

Being a positive sort of chap what I see is Russell running out of the line to create a hole for Ford and Curry, huge commitment from blue 22 and then blue 7 not to put May into touch, and then Russell unable to slide onto Ford as he's blocked by Cole whilst the man outside Russell slides off Ford - in fairness crowd noise might well have overridden any attempt to communicate who needed to pick up Ford

It's competency perhaps from England,but not from Scotland

that running out of the line is what threw faz and had been spotted by Ford, so kudos.

[Timbo]

I said it before, watch the buildup to Ford's try.



Just see how he manipulates the game...Farrell either chooses to never do that, or cannot...

Curry is exceptionally good also, in what is a an excellent piece of play from England.

Being a positive sort of chap what I see is Russell running out of the line to create a hole for Ford and Curry, huge commitment from blue 22 and then blue 7 not to put May into touch, and then Russell unable to slide onto Ford as he's blocked by Cole whilst the man outside Russell slides off Ford - in fairness crowd noise might well have overridden any attempt to communicate who needed to pick up Ford

It's competency perhaps from England,but not from Scotland

Well yes, but if you look at any defence minute by minute in such a forensic manner you’ll always find plenty of mistakes. I guess the point is with Ford on the field we did suddenly look like we could manipulate more mistakes out of the Scots and take advantage of them when we did.

[Digby]

that running out of the line is what threw faz and had been spotted by Ford, so kudos.

Again though being a miserable git I don't go from better than Farrell to equating with excellence in execution or manipulation of the defence, I'm sticking with in this instance being better than Farrell seeing us rising to the levels of basic competence

[Raggs]

Just have to point out Genge's pass for Ford's score. Fantastic pass, especially for someone who's been on the pitch a lot longer than expected.

[Oakboy]

Has Itoje ever been captain for Saracens?

[Digby]

Just have to point out Genge's pass for Ford's score. Fantastic pass, especially for someone who's been on the pitch a lot longer than expected.

He had been pottering about for much of his time out there. And he needed to make up for an earlier handling error butchering a try

[Mellsblue]

Has Itoje ever been captain for Saracens?

Don’t think so, possibly for a handful of one off matches. He was u20s capt and captained Saracens to the Anglo-Welsh a year later.

[Banquo]

Just have to point out Genge's pass for Ford's score. Fantastic pass, especially for someone who's been on the pitch a lot longer than expected.

as I said before, he bookended his performance well with offloads to Sinckler early and that one for Ford's try. In between he had 15 carries for about 7 yards and got in the way mostly. So positively, a lot to work on.

[Mellsblue]

Just have to point out Genge's pass for Ford's score. Fantastic pass, especially for someone who's been on the pitch a lot longer than expected.

as I said before, he bookended his performance well with offloads to Sinckler early and that one for Ford's try. In between he had 15 carries for about 7 yards and got in the way mostly. So positively, a lot to work on.

The talent is there, though.

[Banquo]

Just have to point out Genge's pass for Ford's score. Fantastic pass, especially for someone who's been on the pitch a lot longer than expected.

as I said before, he bookended his performance well with offloads to Sinckler early and that one for Ford's try. In between he had 15 carries for about 7 yards and got in the way mostly. So positively, a lot to work on.

The talent is there, though.

aye. But he needed some help out there and got none.

[Oakboy]

Has Itoje ever been captain for Saracens?

Don’t think so, possibly for a handful of one off matches. He was u20s capt and captained Saracens to the Anglo-Welsh a year later.

I just wonder if he has sufficient composure at this stage to be England captain. His game is about getting stuck in and niggling the opposition. Maybe, he'd get as carried away as Farrell and certainly would not be a diplomatic referee empathiser. Assuming that he stays in the side (and he should, IMO), Wilson could have the required clear-headedness under pressure, I'd guess. I don't think I'd want any Saracens player at this point. All of them are better as player-example-leader than captain, IMO.

I'd have Launchbury but I don't think he will be in Jones's 23 when everyone is fit.

[Banquo]

Has Itoje ever been captain for Saracens?

Don’t think so, possibly for a handful of one off matches. He was u20s capt and captained Saracens to the Anglo-Welsh a year later.

I just wonder if he has sufficient composure at this stage to be England captain. His game is about getting stuck in and niggling the opposition. Maybe, he'd get as carried away as Farrell and certainly would not be a diplomatic referee empathiser. Assuming that he stays in the side (and he should, IMO), Wilson could have the required clear-headedness under pressure, I'd guess. I don't think I'd want any Saracens player at this point. All of them are better as player-example-leader than captain, IMO.

I'd have Launchbury but I don't think he will be in Jones's 23 when everyone is fit.

I think captaincy would calm him down, plus he is an automatic choice imo. That's essential.

[Mellsblue]

Don’t think so, possibly for a handful of one off matches. He was u20s capt and captained Saracens to the Anglo-Welsh a year later.

I just wonder if he has sufficient composure at this stage to be England captain. His game is about getting stuck in and niggling the opposition. Maybe, he'd get as carried away as Farrell and certainly would not be a diplomatic referee empathiser. Assuming that he stays in the side (and he should, IMO), Wilson could have the required clear-headedness under pressure, I'd guess. I don't think I'd want any Saracens player at this point. All of them are better as player-example-leader than captain, IMO.

I'd have Launchbury but I don't think he will be in Jones's 23 when everyone is fit.

I think captaincy would calm him down, plus he is an automatic choice imo. That's essential.

I think he’s best man for the job. Possibly George, he’s captained the u20’s. I suppose we’re just guessing without watching them within the squad. Itoje certainly seems to have the best CV.
Wilson seems a lot like Farrell to me. Good man to have in the trenches but you don’t want him devising or directing the plan in the heat of battle. They also both have all the attributes of great blindside flankers.

[Banquo]

I just wonder if he has sufficient composure at this stage to be England captain. His game is about getting stuck in and niggling the opposition. Maybe, he'd get as carried away as Farrell and certainly would not be a diplomatic referee empathiser. Assuming that he stays in the side (and he should, IMO), Wilson could have the required clear-headedness under pressure, I'd guess. I don't think I'd want any Saracens player at this point. All of them are better as player-example-leader than captain, IMO.

I'd have Launchbury but I don't think he will be in Jones's 23 when everyone is fit.

I think captaincy would calm him down, plus he is an automatic choice imo. That's essential.

I think he’s best man for the job. Possibly George, he’s captained the u20’s. I suppose we’re just guessing without watching them within the squad. Itoje certainly seems to have the best CV.
Wilson seems a lot like Farrell to me. Good man to have in the trenches but you don’t want him devising or directing the plan in the heat of battle. They also both have all the attributes of great blindside flankers.

Think Wilson is a better passer left to right (just for Dasher) and a better decision maker. And he doesn't panic.

[Digby]

I'd perhaps make May captain on the off chance press conferences became of some slight inteurest

[Stom]

Out of the current XV...Jamie George seems to be the natural choice. He's very vocal on the pitch as it is and seems to have a cool head.

But we're not likely to see any changes until after Eddie leaves, at which point...Still George.

[Scrumhead]

Yeah, but George has been on the pitch during all of the second half meltdowns and hasn’t had the influence to change things.

Unfortunately, I think the Saracens guys are used to following Farrell’s lead and the non-Saracens players in our pack aren’t realistic choices for captain.

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, but George has been on the pitch during all of the second half meltdowns and hasn’t had the influence to change things.

Unfortunately, I think the Saracens guys are used to following Farrell’s lead and the non-Saracens players in our pack aren’t realistic choices for captain.

Which leads us back to Hartley...