Alex Shaw's premiership XV

[fivepointer]

Marler, Thacker, Cole, Skelton, Vui, Dombrandt, Ludlam, Mercer, Reinach, Ford, Cordero, Atkinson, Daly, Morahan, Brown

Detailed reasoning here - https://www.rugbypass.com/news/alex-sha ... on-2018-19

A few close calls but I dont think there's an awful lot to argue with.

[Mikey Brown]

First one I’ve seen that doesn’t have Kvesic at 8, oddly enough.

Was Daly actually good before the last round?

[TheNomad]

First one I’ve seen that doesn’t have Kvesic at 8, oddly enough.

Was Daly actually good before the last round?

Agree on both points - Kvesic has been great this year. Not in a typical '8' type way, just contributing in every respect from the back row. Were Jones not in charge, he'd be in the England squad I reckon.

As for Daly, I think he's been quiet (at least by his standards) this season. The silky running we're so used to seeing didn't really turn up too often - good (and well timed) performance on the weekend though!

[Digby]

So it's not a team of the season so much as players who've had the odd standout moment on TV?

[jimKRFC]

Guardian team of the year:
15 Santiago Cordero (Exeter)
14 Luke Morahan (Bristol)
13 Henry Slade (Exeter)
12 Ryan Mills (Worcester)
11 Taqele Naiyaravoro (Northampton)
10 Danny Cipriani (Gloucester)
9 Cobus Reinach (Northampton)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins)
2 Harry Thacker (Bristol)
3 John Afoa (Bristol)
4 Franco Mostert (Gloucester)
5 Will Skelton (Saracens)
6 Steven Luatua capt (Bristol)
7 Tom Curry (Sale)
8 Matt Kvesic (Exeter)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... ugby-union

[jimKRFC]

Will Greenwoods team:
15. Santiago Cordero (Exeter)
14. Denny Solomona (Sale)
13. Joe Marchant (Harlequins)
12.Brad Barritt (Saracens)
11. Taqele Naiyaravoro (Northampton)
10. Danny Cipriani (Gloucester)
9. Cobus Reinach (Northampton)
1. Josh Hohneck (Gloucester)
2. Jack Yeandle (Exeter)
3. John Afoa (Bristol)
4. Matt Symons (Harlequins)
5. Ed Slater (Gloucester)
6. Jono Ross (Sale)
7. Sam Lewis (Worcester)
8. Matt Kvesic (Exeter)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... am-season/

[Mikey Brown]

It did make me wonder if I’ve been overly harsh on Symons or its Greenwood just being a mentalist.

[Mellsblue]

Times:

15 Alex Goode Saracens
Goode put in one of the best shifts in English professional rugby history. Beyond his commitment to Guinness and post-victory celebrations last week, though, he has been consistently high quality all season, so smart that he can slot in at No 10 when Mrs Owen Farrell goes into labour. Special mentions, here, to the Mike Brown revival at Harlequins and Simon Hammersley, who has been so good at Newcastle Falcons that he will no doubt be somewhere else next season.

14 Santiago Cordero Exeter Chiefs
Best footwork in the Premiership? Tick. Most defenders beaten? He would probably have topped this too if he had played at the weekend. Instead, that goes to Taqele Naiyaravoro, the Northampton Saint, who is good at beating the opposition but not at stopping them. Cordero could have been picked in this team at No 11, No 14 or No 15, but right wing is where he has played the most. Will be missed next season when he moves to Bordeaux Bègles.

13 Rory Hutchinson Northampton Saints
Only broke into the Northampton team in February so Henry Slade (Exeter) has arguably been more consistently high class, but Hutchinson scored in that first game against Sale and has been a week-in, week-out regular ever since. Only 23 years old, he is evidence of what can happen when you give potential a chance. Good feet, deceptively quick on the outside break, and always seems to create something. It is no surprise that he may go to the World Cup with Scotland.

12 Ryan Mills Worcester Warriors
Smooth and reliable and one of the key reasons that Worcester steered clear of relegation. Mark Atkinson has been a revelation for Gloucester this season, which may be another feather in Danny Cipriani’s cap. And Brad Barritt has done another season’s shift as the midfield superhero for Saracens. Mills, though, fits into the category of scratch your head and wonder what he could do if England gave the 26-year-old a chance.

11 Ollie Thorley Gloucester
Some great young wings have emerged this season, particularly at Bath where Joe Cokanasiga and Ruaridh McConnochie have established themselves. Eight Premiership tries by Northampton’s Tom Collins tells a story, and Worcester will really miss the excellent Josh Adams. Thorley, 22, has played only 11 Premiership games for Gloucester this season but he has been a genuine sensation, something really special for years to come. The moment when he left the Leicester Tigers defence for dead was magnificent.

10 Danny Cipriani Gloucester
From day one and that pass to Charlie Sharples against Northampton, he has wowed the Premiership. We know what he is doing but opposition defences cannot seem to stop it. Makes those around him look great too. Likes to tell Sharples that it was his pass that got him a new contract. Sharples tells him that it was only because he was so fast that he made the pass look any good.

9 Cobus Reinach Northampton Saints
Saints will be praying that the injury that forced him off against Exeter two days ago will not keep him out of the play-off semi-final back at Sandy Park on Saturday. He scored the try that kept him atop the tries-scored rankings before he went off, an intercept that was a reminder of his raw pace. The best No 9s this season have all been South African — Faf de Klerk (Sale) and Francois Hougaard (Worcester) — but Reinach has been best of the lot.

1 Joe Marler Harlequins
Marler’s interviews when he retired from international rugby revealed a man not entirely happy with life; those on-field blow-ups often caused by an anxiety about spending weeks away from his family on England duty. Post-retirement and freed from those stresses, Marler played 19 games for Harlequins without a yellow card, his scrummaging was top class, his contribution all positive. The question now is whether he would consider coming back for the World Cup.

2 Harry Thacker Bristol Bears
After years of feeling underappreciated by Leicester, a club with a tradition of physical packs and a pressing need for hard-as-nails forwards, Thacker’s move to Bristol has suited him perfectly. Bristol are committed to playing a high-tempo, attacking brand of rugby in which Thacker, an all-action, dynamic hooker, has thrived. He finished the season with seven tries. Rob Webber (Sale) has had a strong campaign and Jamie George (Saracens) was consistently excellent too.

3 John Afoa Bristol Bears
If anybody thought that the former All Black was heading from Gloucester to Bristol for one last pay day before retirement, he has proved them wrong. Afoa is still on top of his game. There are few tight-head scrummagers in the Premiership to rival him in the set piece but he was also making age-defying line breaks. Kyle Sinckler had a good year too for Harlequins but Afoa featured in 21 games for Bristol. Money well spent by the Bears.

4 George Kruis Saracens
Competition is fierce in the second row, with Chris Vui (Bristol), Matt Symons (Harlequins), Franco Mostert (Gloucester) and Will Skelton (Saracens) all deserving a mention, but Kruis has been something else. By his own admission he lost form and confidence after the Lions tour but no player’s improvement curve is ever linear. This year Kruis has rocketed back into England’s starting XV and been critical to Saracens’ double quest. He is unflashy but relentless in defence and an improved carrier.

5 Ed Slater Gloucester
Unlike Thacker, Slater is exactly the kind of player Leicester have needed these past two years, but their loss has been Gloucester’s gain. Johan Ackermann has beefed up his pack with a load of Springboks, with Cipriani adding creativity, but Slater is the rock upon which the club’s resurgence has been built. He was second in the lineout charts and, with Mostert, forms a second-row combination that is commanding in the air and confrontational on the ground.

6 Alex Dombrandt Harlequins
Nick Easter recruited Dombrandt from Cardiff Metropolitan University after seeing much of himself in the burly, unrefined loose forward. “He has still got a rig from university but the kid can play rugby,” Paul Gustard said in November. Dombrandt has not been overcoached and so plays on instinct and from the heart. A dominant carrier, he wins turnovers, scores tries and was player of the year at Harlequins. Steven Luatua, at the other end of the experience scale, has been enormous for Bristol.

7 Tom Curry Sale Sharks
The remarkable thing about Curry is that he is only 20, but is excelling in a position where experience is usually critical; both in terms of the physique required to handle the weekly battering and in terms of knowledge. Curry is already there with both and is England’s first-choice open-side flanker. Although he played only 12 games for Sale Sharks, he led the Premiership’s turnover charts, which pretty much sums up his quality.

8 Matt Kvesic Exeter Chiefs
The best No 8s in the Premiership were all players not much fancied by England. Ben Morgan has played like a steam train for Gloucester while Bath’s Zach Mercer’s style is more like a dog with a bone, scrapping for everything with a huge engine. Kvesic, as a converted flanker, is in the same mould and has been the pick of the bunch after replacing Sam Simmonds at No 8. His work rate, carrying, tackling and turnover contributions have been of the highest order.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alex ... -7tcrjnlgg

[Scrumhead]

Not too much debate in most positions. Personally, I’d go for Morgan over Kvesic though.

[Mikey Brown]

Me too.

I’d probably just have had Kvesic as the form flanker at 7 (Curry just hadn’t played that much) as the 8 tag is just an Exeter thing, just like all the French/Argentine/Saffa 7s wear 6.

[Banquo]

Me too.

I’d probably just have had Kvesic as the form flanker at 7 (Curry just hadn’t played that much) as the 8 tag is just an Exeter thing, just like all the French/Argentine/Saffa 7s wear 6.

not so much, given the Tank was their 8 for ages. More like the number doesn't matter at the moment, rather than a different numbering system.

[Mikey Brown]

Me too.

I’d probably just have had Kvesic as the form flanker at 7 (Curry just hadn’t played that much) as the 8 tag is just an Exeter thing, just like all the French/Argentine/Saffa 7s wear 6.

not so much, given the Tank was their 8 for ages. More like the number doesn't matter at the moment, rather than a different numbering system.

Okay, it's not set in stone, but you know what I mean. If Kvesic and Armand had been wearing different shirts all this time nobody would have questioned it. I suppose I was thinking about all the teams of the week you see with Gorgodze/Alberts etc. picked at openside (alongside another 6) because they wore 7 for their club.

[Mellsblue]

Does anyone have the time and knowledge to run a RR team of the year poll? Perhaps one position a day?
Going by the GoT thread, Puja has some time on his hands and probably has the know how of how to setup polls on here.

[Banquo]

Me too.

I’d probably just have had Kvesic as the form flanker at 7 (Curry just hadn’t played that much) as the 8 tag is just an Exeter thing, just like all the French/Argentine/Saffa 7s wear 6.

not so much, given the Tank was their 8 for ages. More like the number doesn't matter at the moment, rather than a different numbering system.

Okay, it's not set in stone, but you know what I mean. If Kvesic and Armand had been wearing different shirts all this time nobody would have questioned it. I suppose I was thinking about all the teams of the week you see with Gorgodze/Alberts etc. picked at openside (alongside another 6) because they wore 7 for their club.

My point was those countries have different numbering conventions, whereas Chiefs is expediency. But a tad pedantic I guess....at least its not a pun , and I get your point.

[Digby]

What does Kvesic not do that 'real' 8s do, and how does that affect his stats? For instance I'm assuming he's not as good at making metres in contact as say Morgan, but is he faster at reaching the gainline than Morgan such their numbers are comparable if you're looking at metres gained?

[Mikey Brown]

What does Kvesic not do that 'real' 8s do, and how does that affect his stats? For instance I'm assuming he's not as good at making metres in contact as say Morgan, but is he faster at reaching the gainline than Morgan such their numbers are comparable if you're looking at metres gained?

You've got that the wrong way round. His stats say he's only 6 foot, therefore he's not an 8. Ask Jngf.

[Scrumhead]

I think it’s more how he’s used. From what I’ve seen he doesn’t generally carry off the base of the scrum like an 8 and is used as more of a second or third phase carrier/link man which is more what you’d see from a 7.

Chiefs’ back row ‘numbering conventions’ have been unusual in the post-Waldrom era.

Simmonds and Kvesic would be played at 7 in most teams and Armand would be a 6 not a 7.

It doesn’t really matter, as they have the back row balance, just with different numbers to most teams which is a little strange.

[Banquo]

I think it’s more how he’s used. From what I’ve seen he doesn’t generally carry off the base of the scrum like an 8 and is used as more of a second or third phase carrier/link man which is more what you’d see from a 7.

Chiefs’ back row ‘numbering conventions’ have been unusual in the post-Waldrom era.

Simmonds and Kvesic would be played at 7 in most teams and Armand would be a 6 not a 7.

It doesn’t really matter, as they have the back row balance, just with different numbers to most teams which is a little strange.

Unlike many other sides who claim the numbers don't matter, they have ensured breakdown balance by playing Kvesic. Suspect also that neither Ewers nor Armand have the ability to deal with the ball at the base of the scrum.

[Digby]

Wuss played Kev a lot at 8, so it's not just Exeter who've liked him there

[Mellsblue]

Wuss played Kev a lot at 8, so it's not just Exeter who've liked him there

p/d is also a big advocate so that will probably explain it.

[Banquo]

Wuss played Kev a lot at 8, so it's not just Exeter who've liked him there

p/d is also a big advocate so that will probably explain it.

indeed.

[Stom]

So that's four teams of the year, and this is how they break down:

Marler/Hohneck
Thacker/Yeandle
Cole/Afoa
Skelton/Symons/Kruis
Vui/Mostert/Slater
Dombrandt/Luatua/Ross
Ludlam/Curry/Lewis
Mercer/Kvesic
Reinach
Ford/Cips
Cordero/Naiyarovoro/Thorley
Atkinson/Mills/Barritt
Daly/Slade/Marchant/Hutchinson
Morahan/Solomona/Cordero
Brown/Cordero/Goode

Only 13 had 4 different players chosen. Only Reinach was unanimous.

[twitchy]

The england back row is completely traditional, no pissing around. Kvesic is competing for the 7 shirt which I would give to curry. Just to play devil's advocate what do you think the stats would be like if curry played for exe and kvesic - sale.

[Stom]

The england back row is completely traditional, no pissing around. Kvesic is competing for the 7 shirt which I would give to curry. Just to play devil's advocate what do you think the stats would be like if curry played for exe and kvesic - sale.

Curry has played 6 and 8 (the latter poorly) for Sale and Kvesic has played across the backrow well. Why not have both?

Though I too would overlook Kvesic in favor of Curry and Underhill, with Willis coming into the picture.

[Scrumhead]

TBH, I don’t recall Curry playing at 8?

Anyway, I tend to agree with Twitchy that Kvesic would primarily competing with Curry and Underhill for a place at 7. England’s back row is typically set-up differently to Exeter’s so I don’t imagine he’d be considered as an 8.

I might just about prefer him to Underhill on the basis that he has a stronger all-round game. However, I can’t see him taking Underhill’s place in Eddie’s affections.

I think we’re likely to see 5 back rowers in the RWC squad. Fitness permitting, I’d argue that Curry, Wilson, Billy and Underhill are certainties with one spot up for grabs. Personally, I’d take Robshaw as the fifth with Wilson covering 8, but I suspect Eddie may go with Hughes or Shields instead.