After Jones

[Oakboy]

Today, Gatland has ruled out coaching England and Mitchell has had his contract extended by two years. I'm pleased about the former and unsure about the latter.

[Mellsblue]

All the ‘best’ laid plans. Where did you find the info about Mitchell?

[Puja]

I'm highly ambivalent about this. On the one hand, in places his record is hard to argue with and it does seem possible he could do very well with England. On the other, there are places where his record is very easy to argue with and I am unsure if his current rep is because his recent coaching has been top drawer or because he's had a run of luck and good players and soon there will be a reversion to the mean.

Puja

[twitchy]

[Timbo]

I’m gonna say that I think Eddie is highly likely to take us through to the 2023 World Cup.

[fivepointer]

Wasnt the plan for Eddie to remain in post after the WC and to work alongside his successor?

Jones and Mitchell take England through to 2021. Gatland goes off with the Lions, who win the series, comes back with his reputation sky high and takes over to universal acclaim.

[Scrumhead]

It totally depends upon how we perform at the RWC. IIRC, I think Eddie’s contract has a break clause in it if we fail to reach the semi finals. I’m cautiously optimistic about our prospects in Japan - I think we are among the top 4 sides in the world at present so a semi is definitely within our reach. However, we have a tough group including two sides (France and Argentina) that historically perform well in tournaments and the conditions are unlikely to suit us, so it’s very hard to predict.

If we do badly, Eddie, Mitchell and anyone associated with this regime will most likely be out the exit door tout suite.

Another 4yrs of Eddie’s oddities and inconsistencies doesn’t appeal to me TBH. We have a fantastic crop of players developing for the next RWC cycle and I’m not sure I want to see them dic%ed around by Eddie.

[Stom]

I'd much rather a more inventive coach come in. Someone younger with more idea of what they want in attack.

Look at the attacking weapons we have...

George, Mako, Sinckler, Billy, Curry, Dombrandt coming through, Robson, Ford, Smith coming through, May, Daly, Watson, Joseph, Slade, Tuilagi, Coka...

I want to see a team built around utilising their attacking abilities, not around defensive solidity and box kicking the bloody thing every chance!

[Scrumhead]

Exactly. And Eddie doesn’t believe we can do this so I doubt he’s going to change his mind ...

[Oakboy]

What I don't understand is why the RFU would not wait until after the RWC to extend Mitchell's contract. It's like a two-edged gamble. On the one hand, extend his contact now and it will be cheaper than doing it after a successful competition. On the other, why have to buy him out of the contract if it all goes wrong?

Continuity is all very well but of what? IMO, Jones has coincided with the best group of players since 2003. How should his performance be assessed, short of the team winning the RWC? Is reaching the SF good enough, for example?

[Bloggs]

What I don't understand is why the RFU would not wait until after the RWC to extend Mitchell's contract. It's like a two-edged gamble. On the one hand, extend his contact now and it will be cheaper than doing it after a successful competition. On the other, why have to buy him out of the contract if it all goes wrong?

Continuity is all very well but of what? IMO, Jones has coincided with the best group of players since 2003. How should his performance be assessed, short of the team winning the RWC? Is reaching the SF good enough, for example?

This is the mistake that happened pre-2015, when we extended all of the contracts of the coaching team and then got knocked out in the group stage

[Scrumhead]

Agreed. It doesn’t make any logical sense.

I think Eddie deserves credit for picking us up off the floor and putting a bit more steel back in to the side, but I’d question how much we’ve actually developed under his tenure. Arguably, we could/should have achieved more over the past 3 years.

[Mellsblue]

Hopefully the extension has the same break clauses as Jones’s.

[Beasties]

I wanted Eddie as Eng coach above all others. I foolishly thought he'd do a Japan on us and get us playing high intensity fast rugby. He's turned out to be the opposite of what I expected him to be. Quite a few on here said be careful what you wish for, he's not gonna make us Japan mk2, and they were right. The thought of another four years of Eddie sends a shiver down my spine. I can cope with the bollox that regularly comes out of his mouth, I even found it highly entertaining to start with, it's the completely left field selections that are depressing me so much. Gary Graham in the squad whilst no Mark Wilson anyone?

He may have us functioning sort of, but surely we could be better than functioning, with a tad more adventure? At this stage it seems the best we can hope for is a Bobby Robson style cornering, whereby his sacred cows get injured/carded.

[Oakboy]

Hopefully the extension has the same break clauses as Jones’s.

I can see no point in either of them carrying on after the RWC. What are they supposed to do till 2021 anyway? Any head coach worth having would not want the existing regime wasting two years of the build-up. One of the most important parts of the first two years of the cycle is to weed out players who will NOT be at the next one. I just can't see how that could possibly be the proper task for an out-going regime (or part of it).

Let's face it, Jones's age and reputation always indicated a one-RWC tenure.

Mitchell and Borthwick to take over in a continuity gambit? No, thanks.

[Mellsblue]

On the plus side, they’ve dropped the idea that Jones will mentor his successor for a season.

[fivepointer]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... tract-2021

"Eddie Jones is poised to continue as England’s head coach until at least 2021 even if his side fail to achieve their target at the World Cup in Japan this year. The Rugby Football Union’s new chief executive, Bill Sweeney, has also revealed Jones could still be in charge for the 2023 World Cup in France.

It represents another shift in RFU policy after Jones’s contract was extended through to 2021 by Sweeney’s predecessor, Steve Brown, in January 2018 but with a break clause should England fail to reach the semi-finals in Japan. Sweeney, who took office in May, confirmed that there would be a review if England flop in Japan but he firmly expects Jones to stay, so much so that he has handed the defence coach John Mitchell a new contract until 2021 at the Australian’s request"

[Timbo]

As I said up the page, it’s seems clear to me that Eddie will be taking us through to the 2023 World Cup, barring catastrophe.

Personally I’m ok with that. He’s a highly competent and experienced head coach. He seems to keep the players stimulated and pretty happy and the fact is our results have been good overall. There are things I wish he did differently with selection (ie I wish he would always select exactly who I want him to), but by and large I think he’s done a good job (I reserve the right to completely change my mind if we bomb at the World Cup!).

[fivepointer]

If not Jones, then who? There isnt exactly a raft of candidates putting themselves forward. Take a punt on an untested premiership coach like McCall or Baxter?
Tbf Jones does have a very good record. a win ratio of 78% is impressive.
Whether he should be given the reigns post WC irrespective of how we perform is something else.

[Stom]

If not Jones, then who? There isnt exactly a raft of candidates putting themselves forward. Take a punt on an untested premiership coach like McCall or Baxter?
Tbf Jones does have a very good record. a win ratio of 78% is impressive.
Whether he should be given the reigns post WC irrespective of how we perform is something else.

Anyone who would pick our best FH at 10 and not pander to the Iceman brigade.

[Timbo]

If not Jones, then who? There isnt exactly a raft of candidates putting themselves forward. Take a punt on an untested premiership coach like McCall or Baxter?
Tbf Jones does have a very good record. a win ratio of 78% is impressive.
Whether he should be given the reigns post WC irrespective of how we perform is something else.

Anyone who would pick our best FH at 10 and not pander to the Iceman brigade.

Sooo....Mike Ford then? I’d wager there are few top tier coaches that wouldn’t pick Farrell.

[Oakboy]

We are back to 'experienced international coach' clamour if somebody English and untested does not get a crack. So far, we've won it just the once with an inexperienced international coach. The big factor in SCW's favour was that he was an 'ideas man'. He had a good group of players and maximised potential.

Jones, IMO, has not maximised potential yet. As ever with him it is, 'win or f*** off'. I think he had to get that last GS to maintain credibility. Gatland is not the answer for us but he'd have won a GS with our squad. The RFU have saddled us with second best (or worse). The only argument in Jones's favour is that he might have been a solid interim measure when we needed it on the back of the last RWC disaster. I just can't see how retaining him in any capacity post-RWC makes sense.

[Oakboy]

If not Jones, then who? There isnt exactly a raft of candidates putting themselves forward. Take a punt on an untested premiership coach like McCall or Baxter?
Tbf Jones does have a very good record. a win ratio of 78% is impressive.
Whether he should be given the reigns post WC irrespective of how we perform is something else.

Anyone who would pick our best FH at 10 and not pander to the Iceman brigade.

Sooo....Mike Ford then? I’d wager there are few top tier coaches that wouldn’t pick Farrell.

As ever, it is a case of 'I wouldn't start from here'. Farrell might be the logical choice for most at this point but what about if Cipriani and/or Ford had picked up his caps over the last 3 or 4 years?

[Banquo]

If not Jones, then who? There isnt exactly a raft of candidates putting themselves forward. Take a punt on an untested premiership coach like McCall or Baxter?
Tbf Jones does have a very good record. a win ratio of 78% is impressive.
Whether he should be given the reigns post WC irrespective of how we perform is something else.

Anyone who would pick our best FH at 10 and not pander to the Iceman brigade.

Sooo....Mike Ford then? I’d wager there are few top tier coaches that wouldn’t pick Farrell.

Do you agree with them?

[Stom]

I sure don't. Our win %age is higher with Ford at 10 than Farrell at 10 and we score more points. He's just a better FH.