World Cup Training Squad

[Which Tyler]

Ther'es a few place-holders and bolters in there.
People like VRR, Ludlam and McConnochie have got to be there to hold tackle bags; and see if they impress beyond expectation.
If Eddie likes what he sees, I can see them making the first cut; and you never know - if one of them really shines, he may even make it to Japan.

These guys who've never trained under Eddie before, you just don't know. For MCConnchie specifically, remember he has an olympic medal to his name; so he may well bring something to the mental side that Eddie likes.

[Scrumhead]

McConnochie was widely tipped to get a call up so it’s not a huge surprise.

Tom Dunn and Jack Singleton have a massive opportunity given Hartley’s injury. We’ll need a third hooker so one of them has a good chance of making the final squad. Singleton is probably better around the park, but I’d probably lean towards Dunn as I think he’s better suited to how we play.

How/why Ludlam is there is a mystery to me. He has had a good season but, as others have already said, I would have had Ben Curry and Mercer ahead of him by some distance.

Hughes losing out is strange. Could it mean an unlikely, but welcome recall for Morgan?

[fivepointer]

Likely to be in the WC squad - Cole, Sinckler, Genge, Launchbury, Wilson, Shields, Underhill, T Curry, Youngs, Ford, Te'o, Tuilagi, Cokanasiga, May, Daly and Watson
Among the other players there could opportunities at LHP, hooker, SH and a number will surely go on a standby list.
When you add in the certs (or near certs) from the other teams not yet picked - Mako, Billy, Kruis, Itoje, Spencer, Farrell, George, Lawes, Slade, LCD, Moon, Williams and Nowell - you arent left with a lot of spots to hand out.

[Peej]

It's remarkable Robson is in, bearing in mind there was talk he may have had to retire due to the blood clotting issue

[Mikey Brown]

Jones cares not for retirement.

[Beasties]

The most perplexing aspect of Eddie's reign has been his selection of decent players in poor form over and over again, but then jettisoning them as they are gaining form at last. Hughes in particular (who has been poor for a long time but looking different again lately) and Brown spring immediately to mind. Then again, the likes of Shields have gone from Godawful to merely meh and are still there.

Also wtf's the thinking behind Robshaw? Is it just that Eddie has had a Damascan realisation on Wilson and has decided he can't accommodate two similar players? He's leaving out a hell of a lot of caps with Robshaw, Care and Hartley. I could understand Care's absence if I believed Eddie seriously had high hopes for Robson, but I doubt that very much.

[Banquo]

Likely to be in the WC squad - Cole, Sinckler, Genge, Launchbury, Wilson, Shields, Underhill, T Curry, Youngs, Ford, Te'o, Tuilagi, Cokanasiga, May, Daly and Watson
Among the other players there could opportunities at LHP, hooker, SH and a number will surely go on a standby list.
When you add in the certs (or near certs) from the other teams not yet picked - Mako, Billy, Kruis, Itoje, Spencer, Farrell, George, Lawes, Slade, LCD, Moon, Williams and Nowell - you arent left with a lot of spots to hand out.

sadly you could be right on JJ not making it.

[Scrumhead]

I think there must be some kind of personal issue with Care. On form and experience he should 100% be involved. If Eddie had shown any real belief in Robson, he’d have had 10+ caps by now, yet he’s picked even though his DVT issues meant he couldn’t be involved in any contact work a matter of weeks ago. Youngs will just be returning from a shoulder op too. It’s just bizarre.

Robshaw is unfortunate to miss out. I still think he has a lot to offer, but I can see the argument that time has caught up with him. I am OK with him being left out, but Shields simply doesn’t deserve his place.

[Banquo]

Likely to be in the WC squad - Cole, Sinckler, Genge, Launchbury, Wilson, Shields, Underhill, T Curry, Youngs, Ford, Te'o, Tuilagi, Cokanasiga, May, Daly and Watson
Among the other players there could opportunities at LHP, hooker, SH and a number will surely go on a standby list.
When you add in the certs (or near certs) from the other teams not yet picked - Mako, Billy, Kruis, Itoje, Spencer, Farrell, George, Lawes, Slade, LCD, Moon, Williams and Nowell - you arent left with a lot of spots to hand out.

a hooker and a 9 to be exact, as I read that, but that would leave us a bit light at back row.

[richy678]

McConnochie was widely tipped to get a call up so it’s not a huge surprise.

Tom Dunn and Jack Singleton have a massive opportunity given Hartley’s injury. We’ll need a third hooker so one of them has a good chance of making the final squad. Singleton is probably better around the park, but I’d probably lean towards Dunn as I think he’s better suited to how we play.

How/why Ludlam is there is a mystery to me. He has had a good season but, as others have already said, I would have had Ben Curry and Mercer ahead of him by some distance.

Hughes losing out is strange. Could it mean an unlikely, but welcome recall for Morgan?

Beat me too it - Hughes/Morgan

Surely not. Why would he swap his back up 8, when he seems to like to set up with a big chunky hard yards unit at 8, for morgan, whose show reel is definitely clean breaks, long carries and good hands?

[Puja]

McConnochie was widely tipped to get a call up so it’s not a huge surprise.

Tom Dunn and Jack Singleton have a massive opportunity given Hartley’s injury. We’ll need a third hooker so one of them has a good chance of making the final squad. Singleton is probably better around the park, but I’d probably lean towards Dunn as I think he’s better suited to how we play.

How/why Ludlam is there is a mystery to me. He has had a good season but, as others have already said, I would have had Ben Curry and Mercer ahead of him by some distance.

Hughes losing out is strange. Could it mean an unlikely, but welcome recall for Morgan?

Beat me too it - Hughes/Morgan

Surely not. Why would he swap his back up 8, when he seems to like to set up with a big chunky hard yards unit at 8, for morgan, whose show reel is definitely clean breaks, long carries and good hands?

The thing is, Hughes is a very poor BillyV impersonator. He doesn't carry hard or well in the tight and isn't the man to make a dent in a set defensive line. Morgan actually can play that game - nowhere near as well as Billy, but he can do it.

I don't see either of them getting in tbh - I think Eddie's found his Billy understudies in Wilson and Dombrandt.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I've used my free one and I'm obviously not giving the Telegraph any money, is this worth a read?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... connochie/

[Scrumhead]

McConnochie was widely tipped to get a call up so it’s not a huge surprise.

Tom Dunn and Jack Singleton have a massive opportunity given Hartley’s injury. We’ll need a third hooker so one of them has a good chance of making the final squad. Singleton is probably better around the park, but I’d probably lean towards Dunn as I think he’s better suited to how we play.

How/why Ludlam is there is a mystery to me. He has had a good season but, as others have already said, I would have had Ben Curry and Mercer ahead of him by some distance.

Hughes losing out is strange. Could it mean an unlikely, but welcome recall for Morgan?

Beat me too it - Hughes/Morgan

Surely not. Why would he swap his back up 8, when he seems to like to set up with a big chunky hard yards unit at 8, for morgan, whose show reel is definitely clean breaks, long carries and good hands?

The thing is, Hughes is a very poor BillyV impersonator. He doesn't carry hard or well in the tight and isn't the man to make a dent in a set defensive line. Morgan actually can play that game - nowhere near as well as Billy, but he can do it.

I don't see either of them getting in tbh - I think Eddie's found his Billy understudies in Wilson and Dombrandt.

Puja

Yep. Morgan’s not as good as Billy in making a dent, but he’s better at bringing others in to the game IMO (Thorley’s try of the season being a prime example) and has definitely upped his work rate since he was last with England. Personally, I would be more than happy to see him back in the squad.

I have total faith that Dombrandt will be a great option for the future, but taking him to the RWC off the back of 2/3rds of a season at senior level would be a big gamble. Morgan is an experienced player who has shown he can do it at test level. He’s improved significantly since his last caps too.

[Mikey Brown]

Really hard to gauge what value EJ currently puts on caps/experience.

He's binned a whole load of caps recently but I can't tell if we'd actually be short of caps in comparison to many other top sides. It feels like a few guys with a lot of caps lik Cole, Launch, Lawes, Brown are less involved in the starting XV, while Hartley, Robshaw, Care, Joseph appear to be gone entirely. Will Youngs even be fit?

George, Kruis, Vunipola I guess are now the most experienced guys in the pack? Itoje and Sinkler are two of our most destructive forwards but both incredibly hot-headed. Wilson/Curry/Underhill can't have many caps, though both currently playing like they've been in place for years.

Marler back would make a big difference in terms of caps. Not exactly the best disciplinary record.

That didn't start off as a serious post at all but it got me wondering. I've no idea how are number of caps compares to other teams.

[twitchy]

Has anyone actually researched what the likely temps/humidity etc are going to be like for our different games? I know japan ranges from tropical to snow/mountains etc.

[Scrumhead]

No - but I’d be more worried about us playing in humid conditions. That said, France and Argentina probably won’t enjoy that so much either.

[Scrumhead]

Just checked and average temperature in October is 20 degrees. I went in November and it was about that or colder, so the temperature itself is unlikely to be too much of a problem.

Humidity is harder to gauge. We’re in Sapporo, Kobe, Yokohama and Tokyo for our group games.

[Digby]

It's not a bad squad, though having to be relieved Joseph is included is odd, and I also wonder what he thought he was doing to issue so many caps in the first two seasons to so many players who aren't even team bin juice now

[Mellsblue]

Ashton withdraws*: https://www.englandrugby.com/news/ashto ... ing-squad/


*Given the reason for his withdrawal, there is a very obvious joke to make but I will not stoop to that level.

[Puja]

Ashton withdraws*: https://www.englandrugby.com/news/ashto ... ing-squad/


*Given the reason for his withdrawal, there is a very obvious joke to make but I will not stoop to that level.

Trying something new Mells?

It is spectactularly poor timing given how much effort he's put into making it back for England, although these things sometimes happen when they happen. Can't help but think it's a good result for England though - he's not a bad player or option to have, but he's worse than May, Watson, Daly, Nowell, Cokanasiga, and Brown in the back three, yet does appear to be one of Eddie's favourites, so I'm not sad that he's out of contention.

Puja

[twitchy]

Update on mako, no real news but things seem to be going ok.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/exclusiv ... -world-cup

[Danno]

Any bets on who has their camp cut short after a session of MMA/Greco Wrestling/Curling/A. N. Other?

[jngf]

I don't see either of them getting in tbh - I think Eddie's found his Billy understudies in Wilson and Dombrandt.

Puja

Is Wilson so effective as a No.8 though - at least if where talking a hard yards Billy Vunipola style? Whilst he offers more of a carrying alternative to Robshaw at 6, he's of similar build and power to the latter but not the former - and imo he's not explosive from the back of the scrum in the way Morgan or Hughes can be.

Haven't seen enough of Dombrandt yet to comment.

[Puja]

I don't see either of them getting in tbh - I think Eddie's found his Billy understudies in Wilson and Dombrandt.

Puja

Is Wilson so effective as a No.8 though - at least if where talking a hard yards Billy Vunipola style? Whilst he offers more of a carrying alternative to Robshaw at 6, he's of similar build and power to the latter but not the former - and imo he's not explosive from the back of the scrum in the way Morgan or Hughes can be.

Haven't seen enough of Dombrandt yet to comment.

Given his performances in the Autumn Internationals, I'd say a definite yes. Size isn't always the be-all - he might not be as explosive as Morgan or Hughes, but he's a hell of a lot more effective as a BillyV substitute.

Puja

[jngf]

I don't see either of them getting in tbh - I think Eddie's found his Billy understudies in Wilson and Dombrandt.

Puja

Is Wilson so effective as a No.8 though - at least if where talking a hard yards Billy Vunipola style? Whilst he offers more of a carrying alternative to Robshaw at 6, he's of similar build and power to the latter but not the former - and imo he's not explosive from the back of the scrum in the way Morgan or Hughes can be.

Haven't seen enough of Dombrandt yet to comment.

Given his performances in the Autumn Internationals, I'd say a definite yes. Size isn't always the be-all - he might not be as explosive as Morgan or Hughes, but he's a hell of a lot more effective as a BillyV substitute.

Puja

The test No.8 back up role is a bit of a conundrum, as I see it there are several possibilities, going from the more orthodox to the left field:

1. Attempt the nearest thing to a like for like Billy replacement in Hughes or Morgan - I think both have their merits but their style is more expansive (and much quicker than Billy) at the expense of that hard yards power in the heaviest test level traffic that he demonstrates.

2. Use of a converted 6 like Wilson or Shields - I'd actually opt for the latter on this as I think he has the edge on size and power (though I am looking at this based on test level not club level performances). I'd be tempted to lump Mercer in this category too given he's no giant but has a big 6 like engine.

3. Once again trying a much lighter flier - Jack Clifford and Sam Simmonds both have great pace and skills - but it requires a back row rejig to provide the ballast elsewhere (and the latter player especially looks like a better long term bet as an openside at test level imo).

4.Has one of our test locks played 8 - at club or test level? - I'm mainly thinking in terms of Itoje, Lawes or Launch - tbh I've never really been convinced by the former two as makeshift blindsides (they've looked half the players on the flank ) - though playing no.8 arguably requires less mobility (Billy's a case in point) and speed endurance, though more out and out carrying power so maybe this is an experiment worth making to see if there's any merit?