World Cup Training Squad

[Danno]

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[Freddo]

Glad Marler and Cipriani are there but Heinz over Care and Robson is bollocks. Still issues at Hooker as well.

[Oakboy]

Francis and T'eo don't represent forward-thinking.

[Scrumhead]

When is the final squad named?

Effectively the 35 is actually 38 when you include Mako, Kruis and Nowell.

Ludlam and Francis are unlikely to make the cut, but the rest is quite hard to call.

With Marler back in the mix (very pleased about that), Genge and Moon are very vulnerable unless Mako is not going to make it. Similarly, if Kruis is fit, Ewels drops out.

Wing is harder to call, Nowell is probably touch and go and clearly Eddie likes the look of McConnochie, but we also know he likes Cokansiga so who knows?

I really hope Te’o is not preferred to JJ.

[Which Tyler]

As no-one else is arranging the names properly (and I always get something wrong doing this...)

LHP: Joe Marler, Ellis Genge, Ben Moon, (Mako Vunipola)
HK: Jamie George, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jack Singleton
THP: Kyle Sinckler, Dan Cole, Harry Williams
LK: Maro Itoje, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Charlie Ewels, (George Kruis)
FL: Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Brad Shields, Lewis Ludlam
#8: Billy Vunipola, Mark Wilson

SH: Ben Youngs, Ben Spencer, Willi Heinz
FH: Owen Farrell, George Ford, Danny Cipriani
CE: Henry Slade, Manu Tuilagi, Jonathan Joseph, Ben Te’o, Piers Francis
WG: Jonny May, Joe Cokanasiga, Ruaridh McConnochie, (Jack Nowell)
FB: Elliot Daly, Anthony Watson

Then I'd say that Coka, Ruaridh, and Nowell are playing for 2 spaces, with Eddie debating between a 3rd SH or Te'o. He may go with both and either leave those 3 playing for 1 place, or drop JJ for no known reason.

[Danno]

LH: Genge, Marler, Moon, Vunipola
HK: George, LCD, Singleton
TH: Cole, Sinckler, Williams
LK: Ewels, Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury, Lawes
6.5s: Curry, Ludlam, Shields, Underhill, Wilson
8: Vunipola, Wilson

SH: Heinz, Spencer, Youngs
FH: Cipriani, Farrell, Ford
IC: Francis, T'eo
OC: Joseph, Manu, Slade
Wings: Cokanasiga, May, McCannotbeEnglishsurely, Nowell
FB: Daly, Watson

Edit: Thanks WT.

[richy678]

The search for a bench scrum half continues.
Glad Marler has come back in the fold.
Have never rated T'eo

Im not happy Wilson is considered at 8 - if that is the case, as he looks like he may be the Richard Hill type player we've been looking for.

it also seems that with Watson feeling his back and Daly bullied into playing 15 browny is surplus....id have him back in.

[Renniks]

May, Big Joe, Daly, Watson, McConnochie potential for fastest back 3 in the world cup right there
(plus Nowell for something different)


EJ continuing the allegiance for going with SH players for 50/50 calls (Though, I think most of us feel they're not quite 50/50)

Biggest concerns for me are 9/10/12 axis…
And what happens if we lose one of our starting backrowers

Oh, and the lack of a plan B when narrowing the defence / getting round the corner isn't working

[Mikey Brown]

Gash.

Disappointed with that.

[Shiny]

Eddie Jones is not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

In reality though things will be back to normal after the coaching staff have injured a couple of the players doing underwater judo on ice or whatever they are planning.

[Stom]

Let's start with the positives...

Marler is one of the best LHPs in the world. Just because we have the guy who's probably the best, we shouldn't forget him.
No place for Wigglesworthless
With Watson back, our back3 options are excellent

OK, let's do negatives...

Beans? Why? He's crap. Where's Care or Robson?
Unattatched is still there...
What benefit do we get from Francis?

And that's it...
On paper.

Without thinking about tactics...

[Mikey Brown]

Let's start with the positives...

Marler is one of the best LHPs in the world. Just because we have the guy who's probably the best, we shouldn't forget him.
No place for Wigglesworthless
With Watson back, our back3 options are excellent

OK, let's do negatives...

Beans? Why? He's crap. Where's Care or Robson?
Unattatched is still there...
What benefit do we get from Francis?

And that's it...
On paper.

Without thinking about tactics...

I'd say having Wilson as the only decent-ish carrier if Vunipola goes down is quite a big worry, but maybe that's a stretch.

I'd love to be more confident that we'll get some security at 15 out of Daly or Watson.

[jngf]

Im not happy Wilson is considered at 8 - if that is the case, as he looks like he may be the Richard Hill type player we've been looking for.

Likewise, I really don't think Wilson has the explosiveness in the carry to play 8 against the better teams - looks a bit like Easter or Dowson all over again

I would have thought that starting Wilson at 6 made more sense and use Shields as the back up 8. This squad badly needs Morgan!

On the positive side I'm hoping Ludlum can add some much needed pace into our flank options and glad to see him getting a chance at test level.

[Puja]

Im not happy Wilson is considered at 8 - if that is the case, as he looks like he may be the Richard Hill type player we've been looking for.

Likewise, I really don't think Wilson has the explosiveness in the carry to play 8 against the better teams - looks a bit like Easter or Dowson all over again

I would have thought that starting Wilson at 6 made more sense and use Shields as the back up 8. This squad badly needs Morgan!

On the positive side I'm hoping Ludlum can add some much needed pace into our flank options and glad to see him getting a chance at test level.

Shame Wilson has only excelled at 8 against inferior teams like South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia really.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Im not happy Wilson is considered at 8 - if that is the case, as he looks like he may be the Richard Hill type player we've been looking for.

Likewise, I really don't think Wilson has the explosiveness in the carry to play 8 against the better teams - looks a bit like Easter or Dowson all over again

I would have thought that starting Wilson at 6 made more sense and use Shields as the back up 8. This squad badly needs Morgan!

On the positive side I'm hoping Ludlum can add some much needed pace into our flank options and glad to see him getting a chance at test level.

Assuming we're talking about a situation Billy goes down, how does swapping the numbers on their shirts make any difference to a lack of explosive ball carrying? I'm not sure how you could judge Shields to offer more of that than Wilson anyway.

[Oakboy]

I've never been a fan but, if Simmonds is not fit enough to be the reserve 8, I'd pick Kvesic ahead of Shields or Ludlum. I like Wilson at 6 (with Curry at 7 and Billy V at 8) and the choice of Kvesic or Underhill for the bench seems a better balance for the squad. Anybody with no background knowledge of the English game who had watched club games since Christmas, say, would be flummoxed over Shields's selection ahead of Kvesic (or Armand come to that).

I rate Wilson highly and he did a thoroughly good job at 8 but I'd like the option of selecting someone on the bench who could come on at 7 or 8, leaving Wilson in his best position, depending on the state of the game.

[Puja]

I've never been a fan but, if Simmonds is not fit enough to be the reserve 8, I'd pick Kvesic ahead of Shields or Ludlum. I like Wilson at 6 (with Curry at 7 and Billy V at 8) and the choice of Kvesic or Underhill for the bench seems a better balance for the squad. Anybody with no background knowledge of the English game who had watched club games since Christmas, say, would be flummoxed over Shields's selection ahead of Kvesic (or Armand come to that).

I rate Wilson highly and he did a thoroughly good job at 8 but I'd like the option of selecting someone on the bench who could come on at 7 or 8, leaving Wilson in his best position, depending on the state of the game.

I think they'd be more baffled at Robshaw, Dombrandt, or BCurry's overlooking.

I think Ludlam's there for youthful energy and to be disruptive. Eddie's trumpeted this as a squad with "experience, attitude, and energy to be winners". Robshaw is clearly and obviously superior to Ludlam, but Eddie's obviously chosen Shields over him and then given the last spot to a wildcard who might provide energy, rather than the obvious next cab off the rank who he's decided already isn't going. Same with McConnochie over Brown and Singleton over Hartley.

Puja

[Renniks]

I've never been a fan but, if Simmonds is not fit enough to be the reserve 8, I'd pick Kvesic ahead of Shields or Ludlum. I like Wilson at 6 (with Curry at 7 and Billy V at 8) and the choice of Kvesic or Underhill for the bench seems a better balance for the squad. Anybody with no background knowledge of the English game who had watched club games since Christmas, say, would be flummoxed over Shields's selection ahead of Kvesic (or Armand come to that).

I rate Wilson highly and he did a thoroughly good job at 8 but I'd like the option of selecting someone on the bench who could come on at 7 or 8, leaving Wilson in his best position, depending on the state of the game.

I think they'd be more baffled at Robshaw, Dombrandt, or BCurry's overlooking.

I think Ludlam's there for youthful energy and to be disruptive. Eddie's trumpeted this as a squad with "experience, attitude, and energy to be winners". Robshaw is clearly and obviously superior to Ludlam, but Eddie's obviously chosen Shields over him and then given the last spot to a wildcard who might provide energy, rather than the obvious next cab off the rank who he's decided already isn't going. Same with McConnochie over Brown and Singleton over Hartley.

Puja

Agreed on the energy side of things here…

but I don't get Ludlam over Dombrandt
Or McConnochie over Thorley

[Puja]

I've never been a fan but, if Simmonds is not fit enough to be the reserve 8, I'd pick Kvesic ahead of Shields or Ludlum. I like Wilson at 6 (with Curry at 7 and Billy V at 8) and the choice of Kvesic or Underhill for the bench seems a better balance for the squad. Anybody with no background knowledge of the English game who had watched club games since Christmas, say, would be flummoxed over Shields's selection ahead of Kvesic (or Armand come to that).

I rate Wilson highly and he did a thoroughly good job at 8 but I'd like the option of selecting someone on the bench who could come on at 7 or 8, leaving Wilson in his best position, depending on the state of the game.

I think they'd be more baffled at Robshaw, Dombrandt, or BCurry's overlooking.

I think Ludlam's there for youthful energy and to be disruptive. Eddie's trumpeted this as a squad with "experience, attitude, and energy to be winners". Robshaw is clearly and obviously superior to Ludlam, but Eddie's obviously chosen Shields over him and then given the last spot to a wildcard who might provide energy, rather than the obvious next cab off the rank who he's decided already isn't going. Same with McConnochie over Brown and Singleton over Hartley.

Puja

Agreed on the energy side of things here…

but I don't get Ludlam over Dombrandt
Or McConnochie over Thorley

I'd rather have Dombrandt than Ludlam as well, although I guess there's an argument that it's better balanced with an extra 7 instead of an extra 6/8.

I wouldn't've said Thorley vs McConnochie was an obvious choice. McConnochie's looked very handy this year and Thorley may have missed out through his injury curtailing his appearances at the tail end of the season. Plus McConnochie has big tournament experience from the 7s.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Im not happy Wilson is considered at 8 - if that is the case, as he looks like he may be the Richard Hill type player we've been looking for.

Likewise, I really don't think Wilson has the explosiveness in the carry to play 8 against the better teams - looks a bit like Easter or Dowson all over again

I would have thought that starting Wilson at 6 made more sense and use Shields as the back up 8. This squad badly needs Morgan!

On the positive side I'm hoping Ludlum can add some much needed pace into our flank options and glad to see him getting a chance at test level.

Shame Wilson has only excelled at 8 against inferior teams like South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia really.

Puja

I thought the same.

The fact that Wilson is likely to cover 8, doesn’t mean he’ll play there. I’d expect our first choice back row to have him at 6 alongside Curry and Billy.

[Which Tyler]

McConnochie/Thorley is fair either way. Both have had great seasons.
On another board someone made a good suggestion on Ludlam - he's excellent at the breakdown, maybe he's there as a training mimic.

[Renniks]

Thoughts on Goode still not making the training squad?

Lots of general public feel that this is a ridiculous oversight - I don't see how he'd fit in the current England set-up, but he has been performing very very well, and keeping Liam Williams on the wing…

[Oakboy]

Thoughts on Goode still not making the training squad?

Lots of general public feel that this is a ridiculous oversight - I don't see how he'd fit in the current England set-up, but he has been performing very very well, and keeping Liam Williams on the wing…

And, they looked more dangerous with Goode at 10 and Williams at 15!!!!

[fivepointer]

Ludlam is a very lucky lad. Far better players have been left out.
I can gripe about Shields and Te'o but they were always going to get picked. Francis? I'd have gone for Devoto or Williams but its not a completely bad selection.
Most of the forwards are spot on. Singleton over Dunn is a very close call and i'm a bit disappointed Dombrandt hasnt been retained. Marlers return is seriously good news. The other front rowers and locks pick themselves.
McConnochie over Thorley is another close one.
Cips is in, so thats good, as is JJ being retained.
Which leaves us with Willi Heinz over Robson and every other English SH bar Youngs and Spencer. I've been trying to find a good reason why that is so. At 32 this is a one shot call. Theres no denying Glos were better with him and he does manage the game well. His basics are OK and he isnt the worst at keeping defences on their toes. I can see why you wouldnt pick a bolter like Mitchell, but i'm struggling to see what Heinz can bring ahead of Care or Robson.
Its genuinely odd.

[Mellsblue]

I think Heinz is there merely as a squad filler. I’m surprised the Wiggler hasn’t made it but Jones has shown he doesn’t rate/trust either Care or Robson. Is Youngs yet fully fit? I know he was ruled out for the season with his 6N injury....is he back yet?
Ludlum is strange. WT’s theory of him running as a specific type of player in oppo makes the most sense.