World Cup Training Squad

[fivepointer]

Loz's problem is that he's very good in a number of positions but not outstanding in any one to get the nod over other players.
The curse of the genuinely versatile utility player illustrated.

[Shiny]

Brown called into the training camp according to the Daily Fail.

[Mikey Brown]

Not totally sure how relevant this is, but if you can look past all the annoying stuff there are some pretty interesting stats in the second half of this video.

[Puja]

I think he should look to settle at wing myself. He looked utterly mustard there when he had that run for Saracens mid-season.

Puja

Has anyone from Saracens said that Daly will get the 13 shirt? I'm not sure I would pick him there ahead of Loz but I would definitely prefer Daly as a winger.

I'd have Daly as a winger every day of the week, but he sees himself as a 13 and wants to play there, so I doubt he's moved to Saracens without that promise.

Puja

[twitchy]

Not totally sure how relevant this is, but if you can look past all the annoying stuff there are some pretty interesting stats in the second half of this video.

Very telling stats about the come backs and conceding points etc.

[Mikey Brown]

Not totally sure how relevant this is, but if you can look past all the annoying stuff there are some pretty interesting stats in the second half of this video.

Very telling stats about the come backs and conceding points etc.

Yep.

Funny how closely it also mirrors people's assessments of Jones's tenure over several teams he's been in charge of, that he starts out very strongly then abruptly hits a wall about half way through the plan.

[Mellsblue]

According to the times:
Cipriani, Watson and Underhill released for a week of “specialised strength and conditioning work”. The second two are coming back from injury, Watson’s obviously very serious, so it’s understandable. I’m not aware of Cipriani being injured..... is Jones getting his reason to drop him in!?!?
Smith, Brown and Dombrandt in to replace them, along with Dunn and Thorley.

[Puja]

It's a very odd strategy to have cut down his RWC squad so early and then keep inviting people back in to provide training opposition. It has the advantage of allowing the coaches to focus on the players who are likely going to Japan or being the injury cover, rather than spreading themselves thin over a 50-man squad, but it is unusual.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

I’d be interested to know what he’s telling the players.

It seems that there is a group of about 42/43 that are in contention and while there’s been some chopping and changing amongst them, no-one else has been added to this group. For example, he could easily have recalled Robshaw or Hughes (or less likely Care), but hasn’t done so.

I suspect that the players are being told that they’ll mix it up from week to week, but you’re not 100% in or out until the final squad is named.

There are obviously some players that are most vulnerable to switching in and out (such as Thorley and Smith), but there will be a few who’ve been there for the whole time but still miss out (probably Moon and Ewels), so it seems like it’s a bit of a fluid approach.

[fivepointer]

Think players are being brought in for specific training weeks. I'm pretty sure Jones knows most, if not all, of his final 31 now.

[Scrumhead]

Yeah - I think there’s a fairly obvious 28 or so and then 3 places with some room for flexibility/a bolter or two.

That could change depending on the fitness of Mako, Kruis and Nowell, but all three are supposed to be on track (I take all three it fit, so I’m hoping they are).

[Timbo]

On Lozowski, I get the frustration in terms of wanting to have such a talented player regularly involved with England...but from a club POV he’s been Sarries starting 13 for 15 months or so (maybe a bit longer) and won 2 leagues and a CC there. It would seem to be a his best and preferred position.

Not sure what Daly has been promised at Sarries...probably money, trophies and a return to London, but I hope it’s not the 13 shirt over Loz.

[Peej]

I'd play Loz over Daly - and I say that as a Wasps fan.

I imagine Daly will play on the wing for Sarries, and rotate in with the centres/at 15 if Goode is playing 10 to give Farrell a break.

The flaw in his recruitment is that Daly is likely to be away at all the times Faz is.

[twitchy]

He's a good player but I think you are getting carried away if you would pick him over daly.

[Stom]

He's a good player but I think you are getting carried away if you would pick him over daly.

Yeah, apart from out and out pace, and his step, is there really much difference between Loz and Francis?

But I've never particularly rated him.

[Digby]

It's a very odd strategy to have cut down his RWC squad so early and then keep inviting people back in to provide training opposition. It has the advantage of allowing the coaches to focus on the players who are likely going to Japan or being the injury cover, rather than spreading themselves thin over a 50-man squad, but it is unusual.

Puja

I'm sure both the players and the clubs prefer this approach. 20 odd players getting flogged for almost no chance of making the cut before going back to join up with their clubs having had almost not rest and feeling pissed off with life has tended to generate bad feedback

[Danno]

It's a very odd strategy to have cut down his RWC squad so early and then keep inviting people back in to provide training opposition. It has the advantage of allowing the coaches to focus on the players who are likely going to Japan or being the injury cover, rather than spreading themselves thin over a 50-man squad, but it is unusual.

Puja

I'm sure both the players and the clubs prefer this approach. 20 odd players getting flogged for almost no chance of making the cut before going back to join up with their clubs having had almost not rest and feeling pissed off with life has tended to generate bad feedback

Hadn't considered it in that way. You make a very good point Sir

[Banquo]

He's a good player but I think you are getting carried away if you would pick him over daly.

After an iffy start, loz looks a better defender at 13 now than Daly. Daly is however a top class wing. And a very good 15 in attack internationally if somewhat iffy in other areas.

As to Loz v Francis, pace and step aren’t inconsiderable benefits in midfield, plus Loz has shown high levels of ability in more positions than Francis. So I’d say he offers more, though Francis is possibly a better 12.

[Puja]

It's a very odd strategy to have cut down his RWC squad so early and then keep inviting people back in to provide training opposition. It has the advantage of allowing the coaches to focus on the players who are likely going to Japan or being the injury cover, rather than spreading themselves thin over a 50-man squad, but it is unusual.

Puja

I'm sure both the players and the clubs prefer this approach. 20 odd players getting flogged for almost no chance of making the cut before going back to join up with their clubs having had almost not rest and feeling pissed off with life has tended to generate bad feedback

Agreed with Danno - excellent point. I'm sure it'll take a better environment into the RWC squad as well with fewer of their mates being upset and the controversial decisions (like Robshaw and Hartley) having been made early so any ruffled feathers have smoothed down.

Puja

[Digby]

Yep, 20-25 of the players must know they're going, but the other 5-6 roles being chased after by 25-30 players creates a very odd environment, almost more like the Lions than anything else in rugby. And it cannot be easily managed as you're asking the players to put aside their dreams and be wholly grown up and sharing about something they specifically want to be selfish about.

Maybe if the players were used to it, but it only happens every 4 years, and most of the players in multiple WC camps are probably in the 20-25 certs rather than team bin juice

[fivepointer]

squad for 12 day training camp in Italy.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... p-in-italy

No Cips but Marchant is called up. Ludlam keeps his place, as does Francis, Heinz and McConnochie.

[Banquo]

squad for 12 day training camp in Italy.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... p-in-italy

No Cips but Marchant is called up. Ludlam keeps his place, as does Francis, Heinz and McConnochie.

so which 7 will be canned?

[Oakboy]

squad for 12 day training camp in Italy.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... p-in-italy

No Cips but Marchant is called up. Ludlam keeps his place, as does Francis, Heinz and McConnochie.

so which 7 will be canned?

Hard to say. 20 forwards and 10 backs named so what will the make-up of the 31 be? Will there be 3 hookers and 3 SHs?

Maybe, all 5 that 5P names to be discarded plus two more? T'eo and Cole?

[Scrumhead]

Shields’ injury is minor according to the Mail.

He’ll miss the first warm-up game, but should be fit after that.

That makes him a strong likelihood for the squad IMO.

[JellyHead]

Nowell also out to get medical treatment.

Is it a cunning plan by the players? Get minor injury, leave camp, avoid career ending training injury, be only players not in hospital, play at world cup.