European Challenge Cup: Harlequins v Montpellier

[Mellsblue]

Never felt Quins had the game or the personnel to win last night. They had to be near to their very best but werent really close to it. The late score added some respectability but overall they were a distant second best i thought.

Brown was indeed, pretty poor. His form has tailed off alarmingly this season. The guy looks like he really needs a break.

Quins have fallen off a cliff form wise in the latter part of the season. Maybe a change at the top will help them to find their mojo. They've looked very ordinary for a little while.

Playing Jones, two no.4s and a 45 year old number 8 is not an indicator that we should be playing this wild side-to-side, end-to-end rugby.

Why Easter was left on when Clifford was introduced is beyond me.

[Digby]

We used to just fling it around 7s style because we had no pack. We've really bolstered things with Jones/Horwill/Roberts yet we still try and play this ludicrous wide game without gaining any forward momentum or tying any opponents in to the ruck area.

I think they used to fling it around, sort of, specifically because they had a pack, or at least in Johnson, Kohn and Robson had enough secure ball and power to get the ball over the line coming around the corner, and then the speed of handling to play at continuous pace and stress defences already under pressure. And they've continued to try and play at the pace even when they haven't been able to get the ball over the line coming around the corner.

[Stom]

I just think O'Shea got the best out of what he had, but as he's slowly replaced the old guard with the new, we've lost the strength we need to back up the ball playing.

I'm just not too impressed with our locks or the depth in our backrow. Actually, that's an understatement. I find it incredible how we're spending to the cap. We must be seriously overspending on some of our players. Just 4 locks is not good enough, especially when one of them is pretty much useless.

[Mikey Brown]

We used to just fling it around 7s style because we had no pack. We've really bolstered things with Jones/Horwill/Roberts yet we still try and play this ludicrous wide game without gaining any forward momentum or tying any opponents in to the ruck area.

I think they used to fling it around, sort of, specifically because they had a pack, or at least in Johnson, Kohn and Robson had enough secure ball and power to get the ball over the line coming around the corner, and then the speed of handling to play at continuous pace and stress defences already under pressure. And they've continued to try and play at the pace even when they haven't been able to get the ball over the line coming around the corner.

I wasn't very clear, I was talking about the recent period since we were a good side, basically since Kohn left. Not having the power, direction, accuracy etc. to move the ball like that with any real purpose is what I meant by 'flinging it around.' Which is mostly what we've been doing for a little while now.

So essentially I agree with you.

It's exactly what I was getting at with us not using our new heavy boys to any great effect.

[Digby]

We used to just fling it around 7s style because we had no pack. We've really bolstered things with Jones/Horwill/Roberts yet we still try and play this ludicrous wide game without gaining any forward momentum or tying any opponents in to the ruck area.

I think they used to fling it around, sort of, specifically because they had a pack, or at least in Johnson, Kohn and Robson had enough secure ball and power to get the ball over the line coming around the corner, and then the speed of handling to play at continuous pace and stress defences already under pressure. And they've continued to try and play at the pace even when they haven't been able to get the ball over the line coming around the corner.

I wasn't very clear, I was talking about the recent period since we were a good side, basically since Kohn left. Not having the power, direction, accuracy etc. to move the ball like that with any real purpose is what I meant by 'flinging it around.' Which is mostly what we've been doing for a little while now.

So essentially I agree with you.

It's exactly what I was getting at with us not using our new heavy boys to any great effect.

Ah, then yes we basically agree. I wouldn't say they fling it about though, more they're a side who look to move the ball and put pace on the game, and they've stuck with that no matter at times the lack of sufficient foundation to play such a style. They've tried to address that with Jones, Horwill and Roberts, and to an extent it's worked, but not enough.

COS is leaving them in a bit of a mess really, they've gone with the academy a while, and that's not quite paid off, now they've gone with hiring some experience and suddenly they've a few older heads that might need replacing. It's not obvious what the starting XV (or even 13 of those) might be next season, nor what style they'll look to play, really they need 4-5 serious additions to the first XV and that could easily see a shift in tactics

[Mikey Brown]

I'd say that rightly or wrongly 1. Marler 4. Horwill 6. Robshaw 7. Wallace 8. Clifford 9. Care 10. Evans 12. Roberts 14. Yarde 15. Brown are set in stone for next season, in terms of 1st XV with everyone fit.

There are some genuine 1st XV prospects; Sinkler, Collier, Jackson, some players who are great cover at club level but could do with an upgrade; Lambert, Ward, Luamanu, Chisholm etc. and many who we just can't seem to get a consistent with performance out of. Along with the blundering tactics it seems like an awful lot to sort out.

At this point we simply have to play Clifford at 8. Give him a real run there and see if he can settle in. He's not a Nick Easter and he's not a Billy Vunipola but in theory he should really suit what we're trying to do- assuming that remains the same.

I think it was Easter who said he'd like to see him aim for becoming a Sean O'Brien / Kieran Read hybrid. Obviously it's a pretty ambitious comparison but I'd love to see where we can get with that.