England vs Wales match thread - RWC warmup, Raeburn Shield challenge, and chance to take down the #1 ranked team

[fivepointer]

This is all about trying some new players, some new combinations, testing the mettle of one or two and looking at how players might be used at the WC. Sensibly a number of top players have been kept for the following week.
I think its pretty smart.
Like the use of Curry and Underhill as flankers, something that may well be required at the WC.
Heinz starting was a no brainer and had to happen. Francis at 12 was odds on. I expect him to play part of the game at 10. If that comes off, he'll be on the plane I reckon. I also expect Watson to spend a bit of time at FB.
Bench should all get a decent run out which means Singleton, Ludlam and Marchant are due to be capped.
One player who might be a bit worried is Joseph as it seems Marchant has overtaken him.
Interesting....very interesting.

I did think that about JJ, but it may be that Eddie sees him as established, like Manu, May and Farrell who aren't involved either- who knows.

I'm surprised you see Francis getting on the plane- Faz covers 10 and 12, Ford 10, and Slade all of 10,12,13 at a push.

He's been retained over Te'o and now gets a start. If he's not a strong contender why would you start him? Think he has a great chance of going as a different option to Manu and fact he can cover 10.

[Mellsblue]

This is all about trying some new players, some new combinations, testing the mettle of one or two and looking at how players might be used at the WC.

Shouldn’t this have all been done prior to this point?

Most of it, yes. There's no denying we've wasted caps on players who have been dumped and not tried out new players when we could have.

Boo. I wanted an argument!

[Banquo]

This is all about trying some new players, some new combinations, testing the mettle of one or two and looking at how players might be used at the WC. Sensibly a number of top players have been kept for the following week.
I think its pretty smart.
Like the use of Curry and Underhill as flankers, something that may well be required at the WC.
Heinz starting was a no brainer and had to happen. Francis at 12 was odds on. I expect him to play part of the game at 10. If that comes off, he'll be on the plane I reckon. I also expect Watson to spend a bit of time at FB.
Bench should all get a decent run out which means Singleton, Ludlam and Marchant are due to be capped.
One player who might be a bit worried is Joseph as it seems Marchant has overtaken him.
Interesting....very interesting.

I did think that about JJ, but it may be that Eddie sees him as established, like Manu, May and Farrell who aren't involved either- who knows.

I'm surprised you see Francis getting on the plane- Faz covers 10 and 12, Ford 10, and Slade all of 10,12,13 at a push.

He's been retained over Te'o and now gets a start. If he's not a strong contender why would you start him? Think he has a great chance of going as a different option to Manu and fact he can cover 10.

so which back doesn't make it if Francis goes? I'm surprised as Francis hasn't even been in the frame til...today really. How much has he played 10 this season out of interest- genuine question?

Equally, do you see Ewels going if he has a good game?

[Puja]

Very interesting team that - looking forward to seeing how it goes against a strong opposition. That back row is very exciting indeed. Feels like a play-off between Ewels and Launchbury for the 4th lock spot on the plane, however unjust that might be.

Interesting to note that BillyV is the only Saracen (from last season) to be picked - an extra week of prep for them after their prolonged end to the season and delayed start to the camps.

Puja

TBH, I quite like the side.

It’s not exactly a ‘win-win’ scenario for Eddie, but by picking an experimental side, we arguably have more to gain. If we win, we give Wales a really bloody nose. If we lose but some of the experiments pay-off, he can argue it was a risk worth taking.

I was saying on the WMB that it reminds me of the 2003 warmups against France, where we played our 1sts against their experiments and then did the reverse the next week. It gave a really tough game for the experiments to see if they had the chops, while giving a morale-boosting victory for the 1st XV.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

I did think that about JJ, but it may be that Eddie sees him as established, like Manu, May and Farrell who aren't involved either- who knows.

I'm surprised you see Francis getting on the plane- Faz covers 10 and 12, Ford 10, and Slade all of 10,12,13 at a push.

He's been retained over Te'o and now gets a start. If he's not a strong contender why would you start him? Think he has a great chance of going as a different option to Manu and fact he can cover 10.

so which back doesn't make it if Francis goes? I'm surprised as Francis hasn't even been in the frame til...today really. How much has he played 10 this season out of interest- genuine question?

Equally, do you see Ewels going if he has a good game?

Francis has been in plenty of Jones’s squads, albeit without overly troubling the 1stXV. Still can’t see him going, mind.
My worry is it’s a shoot out between Launch and Ewels with the winner then taking on Shields for the final back 5 squad spot.

[fivepointer]

I did think that about JJ, but it may be that Eddie sees him as established, like Manu, May and Farrell who aren't involved either- who knows.

I'm surprised you see Francis getting on the plane- Faz covers 10 and 12, Ford 10, and Slade all of 10,12,13 at a push.

He's been retained over Te'o and now gets a start. If he's not a strong contender why would you start him? Think he has a great chance of going as a different option to Manu and fact he can cover 10.

so which back doesn't make it if Francis goes? I'm surprised as Francis hasn't even been in the frame til...today really. How much has he played 10 this season out of interest- genuine question?

Equally, do you see Ewels going if he has a good game?

If we take 4 centres, Francis will go with Manu, Slade and Marchant/JJ - one of them will miss out.
McConnochie will replace Nowell if he doesnt make it - latest injury report isnt encouraging.
We'll take 2 SH's and 2 FH's. Daly, May, Coka and Watson will be the other back 3 players.
Ewels must have a chance. I'd say he is 5th choice right now.

[Beasties]

He's been retained over Te'o and now gets a start. If he's not a strong contender why would you start him? Think he has a great chance of going as a different option to Manu and fact he can cover 10.

so which back doesn't make it if Francis goes? I'm surprised as Francis hasn't even been in the frame til...today really. How much has he played 10 this season out of interest- genuine question?

Equally, do you see Ewels going if he has a good game?

Francis has been in plenty of Jones’s squads, albeit without overly troubling the 1stXV. Still can’t see him going, mind.
My worry is it’s a shoot out between Launch and Ewels with the winner then taking on Shields for the final back 5 squad spot.

This. I don't think Eddie's that arsed about Launch ultimately.

[Banquo]

He's been retained over Te'o and now gets a start. If he's not a strong contender why would you start him? Think he has a great chance of going as a different option to Manu and fact he can cover 10.

so which back doesn't make it if Francis goes? I'm surprised as Francis hasn't even been in the frame til...today really. How much has he played 10 this season out of interest- genuine question?

Equally, do you see Ewels going if he has a good game?

Francis has been in plenty of Jones’s squads, albeit without overly troubling the 1stXV. Still can’t see him going, mind.
My worry is it’s a shoot out between Launch and Ewels with the winner then taking on Shields for the final back 5 squad spot.

I meant in the frame for the RWC squad obvs

[Banquo]

He's been retained over Te'o and now gets a start. If he's not a strong contender why would you start him? Think he has a great chance of going as a different option to Manu and fact he can cover 10.

so which back doesn't make it if Francis goes? I'm surprised as Francis hasn't even been in the frame til...today really. How much has he played 10 this season out of interest- genuine question?

Equally, do you see Ewels going if he has a good game?

If we take 4 centres, Francis will go with Manu, Slade and Marchant/JJ - one of them will miss out.
McConnochie will replace Nowell if he doesnt make it - latest injury report isnt encouraging.
We'll take 2 SH's and 2 FH's. Daly, May, Coka and Watson will be the other back 3 players.
Ewels must have a chance. I'd say he is 5th choice right now.

IF we take 4 centres being the key phrase; I suppose even though I don't like it, I see Faz covering midfield as well. I guess it hadn't even occurred to me that Francis had a shot- again though, how often has he played 10 this season?

[Mellsblue]

so which back doesn't make it if Francis goes? I'm surprised as Francis hasn't even been in the frame til...today really. How much has he played 10 this season out of interest- genuine question?

Equally, do you see Ewels going if he has a good game?

Francis has been in plenty of Jones’s squads, albeit without overly troubling the 1stXV. Still can’t see him going, mind.
My worry is it’s a shoot out between Launch and Ewels with the winner then taking on Shields for the final back 5 squad spot.

I meant in the frame for the RWC squad obvs

He does seem like a bolter, and looks like more muddled thinking, but he has been in quite a few squads. I think it’s only really injury that has kept him out of the ones he’s missed.

[Puja]

Francis has been in plenty of Jones’s squads, albeit without overly troubling the 1stXV. Still can’t see him going, mind.
My worry is it’s a shoot out between Launch and Ewels with the winner then taking on Shields for the final back 5 squad spot.

I meant in the frame for the RWC squad obvs

He does seem like a bolter, and looks like more muddled thinking, but he has been in quite a few squads. I think it’s only really injury that has kept him out of the ones he’s missed.

And don't forget, Francis has played in the Southern Hemisphere.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

I meant in the frame for the RWC squad obvs

He does seem like a bolter, and looks like more muddled thinking, but he has been in quite a few squads. I think it’s only really injury that has kept him out of the ones he’s missed.

And don't forget, Francis has played in the Southern Hemisphere.

Puja

Which is the crux of the matter.

[Banquo]

He does seem like a bolter, and looks like more muddled thinking, but he has been in quite a few squads. I think it’s only really injury that has kept him out of the ones he’s missed.

And don't forget, Francis has played in the Southern Hemisphere.

Puja

Which is the crux of the matter.

indeed. Ben Teo must be very confused.

[Puja]

And don't forget, Francis has played in the Southern Hemisphere.

Puja

Which is the crux of the matter.

indeed. Ben Teo must be very confused.

Didn't play Super Rugby. There's a hierarchy of these things.

Puja

[Digby]

Which is the crux of the matter.

indeed. Ben Teo must be very confused.

Didn't play Super Rugby. There's a hierarchy of these things.

Puja

Soup rugby is above league? That doesn't sound right

[Mellsblue]

indeed. Ben Teo must be very confused.

Didn't play Super Rugby. There's a hierarchy of these things.

Puja

Soup rugby is above league? That doesn't sound right

Are we sure he’s not just asked to go back home to recharge his batteries after a gruelling season and training camp? As he’s back home, he might as well meet the squad in Japan rather than fly to the UK just to then fly out to Japan.

[jngf]

Like the use of Curry and Underhill as flankers, something that may well be required at the WC.
.

I'm fascinated (and pleased!) by this selection too. Will Curry and Underhill be played left and right a la 6 Winterbottom 7 (Gary) Rees in the late mid to late 80s' (or like 6 Jeffrey and 7 Calder) - especially as Curry's been given the 6 shirt?

[Raggs]

I reckon either left right, or Underhill breaks off the scrum faster.

[Digby]

Might depend who has the better tackle on their left shoulder

[Scrumhead]

I reckon either left right, or Underhill breaks off the scrum faster.

I thought the same.

Either way, it’s definitely a worthwhile experiment against good opposition. The only question-mark is whether it leaves exposed with the lineout.

[Danno]

Does Underhill go up for Bath? Whenever I've had a chance to watch some Prem games he's been injured and I can't recall him jumping in white

[Puja]

Does Underhill go up for Bath? Whenever I've had a chance to watch some Prem games he's been injured and I can't recall him jumping in white

Occasionally. He's not a front-line jumper, but it happens. Curry goes up regularly for Sale.

Puja

[Danno]

Does Underhill go up for Bath? Whenever I've had a chance to watch some Prem games he's been injured and I can't recall him jumping in white

Occasionally. He's not a front-line jumper, but it happens. Curry goes up regularly for Sale.

Puja

Three-to-four targets seems alright to me. Far worse problems and potential problems elsewhere

[WaspInWales]

So, can someone who watches premiership rugby more than me please explain the rationale behind Jones selecting Heinz and McConnochie for their first caps just over a month before the RWC kicks off?

I'll be honest, I've barely heard of either. Was kinda hoping Spencer and Cips would be starting this match with big Joe on the wing.

Is it likely to pay off? Are these players likely to be test quality and potential world cup bolters?

[Scrumhead]

Heinz is a solid, but unspectacular choice. He’s good at the basics you would want in a 9, i.e. he manages a forward pack pretty well, has a decent pass off both hands and a decent kicking game. Not a terrible option if you want to play a fairly unimaginative and safe rugby. He’s not a better player than Spencer or Robson, but it looks like he’s there because his style of play is most suited to what Eddie wants.

McConnochie is a good player. Strong, quick and elusive and solid under a high ball. He does everything you’d want from a winger pretty well and probably just about deserves a place in the squad on his form from last season. Obviously it’s yet to be seen whether he can translate that to test rugby, but he was an elite 7s player and if Nowell is out, he wouldn’t be a bad replacement to have IMO.

It’s McConnochie’s first season in the fifteen a side game so he wouldn’t have been on the radar beforehand. Heinz has more or less come from left field.