On and Off the Plane

[Puja]

Apart from six carries and 14 tackles that is.

How many of Genge's carries were actually impactful though and how many were either lateral or just a pick and drive at the line? He's got an annoying habit of slowing before the line and trying to beat people with his feet like he's Christian Wade. The only time he picked a good line and ran hard at it, he dropped the ball.

14 tackles is pretty impressive though; fair play.

Puja

[Banquo]

Ludlam just might have played himself into the squad. That was a very assured debut.
Joseph looked quality and is surely bound to go.
I thought Ewels was very good, but then so was Launchbury. This is a close call.
Heinz was pretty average. I didnt see him any better than that.
Of some the other players mentioned, I'm surprised Genge and Williams cop some flak. Genge played the whole match and looked good throughout. Williams made an impact when he came on and does infinitely more than Cole does outside the scrum.
Thought Lawes had a terrific match off the bench.
I also thought Ford was excellent.
Francis did little of note, but i'm struggling to recall him doing anything wrong.
Cokanasiga was a bit of a mixed bag, combining some fearsome running with naive defending. He'll go as he offers something our other back 5 players dont.
The late substitutions do nothing for anybody. Coming on in the 78th minute is a complete waste of time.

Genge gave away a dumb penalty- hardly alone- and dropped a good ish pass, but he was strong in the scrums and made a lot of tackles.
On the defending, he/Joe is naive in the sense that he chases hardest after a kick and got isolated and exposed twice, but others should be at least trying to support him; that said, he has responsibility to make sure its a sensisible chase. He's only played c 33 first class games, so is work in progress, but massive potential, and time in camp should see huge improvements.
Lawes was good, bar two silly penalties. There are too many of those.

[p/d]

As much as I like Ford I find it hard to say he was excellent. Kicking from hand was a mix bag and - I know it is trotted out a lot - but his defence is easy metres for the oppo, which gives sides a way back into the game

Thought Launchbury ordinary and Ewels workmanlike. Tough call

[Mr Mwenda]

As much as I like Ford I find it hard to say he was excellent. Kicking from hand was a mix bag and - I know it is trotted out a lot - but his defence is easy metres for the oppo, which gives sides a way back into the game

Thought Launchbury ordinary and Ewels workmanlike. Tough call

This was my impression. Still, i'd expect Farrell needs to show something next week to ward off Ford's challenge.

Launchbury frustrates me, he's so good much of the time but then he seemingly disappears when England get under pressure. I expect i'm unfair on him but i just want him to take games by the scruff of the neck more.

[Banquo]

As much as I like Ford I find it hard to say he was excellent. Kicking from hand was a mix bag and - I know it is trotted out a lot - but his defence is easy metres for the oppo, which gives sides a way back into the game

Thought Launchbury ordinary and Ewels workmanlike. Tough call

This was my impression. Still, i'd expect Farrell needs to show something next week to ward off Ford's challenge.

Launchbury frustrates me, he's so good much of the time but then he seemingly disappears when England get under pressure. I expect i'm unfair on him but i just want him to take games by the scruff of the neck more.

Much more easy yards were given away by ridiculous penalties. That'd be my focus as a coach.

[Mr Mwenda]

Much more easy yards were given away by ridiculous penalties. That'd be my focus as a coach.

Mentioned that earlier.

Genuine question, for those who have played at higher levels. What do coaches do about what seems to have been a chronic problem for much of the last few years of England performances? Is it just drop people?

[Scrumhead]

The problem is typically compounding one error with another. For North’s try we conceded three or four penalties in rapid succession which gave them the field position to score. They did very little to earn that try - we just gifted them the chance and they took it.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Considering we only conceded 8 in total, you’d think we did far better on that front, but there were four in a row (three for North’s try) and then another immediately (albeit I thought harsh with my one eye). That run of compounding penalties is the problem. It only happened once, which arguably is better, but some so utterly avoidable!

[Scrumhead]

I can live with us conceding penalties when we’re under massive stress in defence (every team does), but to use the North try as an example, the first penalty (IIRC) was Cowan-Dickie standing in an obviously offside position from which he was never going to be able to get to Davies. There was no potential for gain at all, so it was just entirely pointless and totally avoidable.

[p/d]

As much as I like Ford I find it hard to say he was excellent. Kicking from hand was a mix bag and - I know it is trotted out a lot - but his defence is easy metres for the oppo, which gives sides a way back into the game

Thought Launchbury ordinary and Ewels workmanlike. Tough call

This was my impression. Still, i'd expect Farrell needs to show something next week to ward off Ford's challenge.

Launchbury frustrates me, he's so good much of the time but then he seemingly disappears when England get under pressure. I expect i'm unfair on him but i just want him to take games by the scruff of the neck more.

Much more easy yards were given away by ridiculous penalties. That'd be my focus as a coach.

Likewise regards Launchbury

As for the penalties, agree. Still doesn’t mean Ford’s defence isn’t easy metres

[Scrumhead]

But then a lot of the good things we did in attack were orchestrated by Ford.

[Peej]

Launchbury didnt have his best game today but was still better than hes gotten credit for. He does a tremendous amount of work that goes unnoticed. He's not flashy or shouty like some, but he's more effective than most of our locks.

[p/d]

Launchbury didnt have his best game today but was still better than hes gotten credit for. He does a tremendous amount of work that goes unnoticed. He's not flashy or shouty like some, but he's more effective than most of our locks.

I continuously say the same about Kruis (not that Dors agrees ) however, unlike Launchbury, Kruis is a dead cert to start (and rightly so)

[p/d]

But then a lot of the good things we did in attack were orchestrated by Ford.

I’m not knocking Ford for his gain line work. Just if i had to choose between him and Farrell it’s a no brainer.... Cips, sorry I mean Farrell

[Mr Mwenda]

For some reason, in my head, I feel Launchbury should be the better player than Kruis. However, I'm increasingly of the opinion that this is wrong.

[Stom]

But then a lot of the good things we did in attack were orchestrated by Ford.

I’m not knocking Ford for his gain line work. Just if i had to choose between him and Farrell it’s a no brainer.... Cips, sorry I mean Farrell

We would not have won that game with Farrell at 10.

Ford might give up a meter but he makes the tackle. Plus his passing and especially his game management is on a different planet to Farrell.

We should mot be having a debate over 10.

[Which Tyler]

I suspect that this game didn't change anyone opinion on Ford Vs Farrell.
I also suspect that each and every one of usnhas given their opinion more than 100 times.

Now, Moody or Worsley?

[Raggs]

Fords defence was solid in my mind, one hand off by Davies (who's done that to far better/bigger players) is not a black mark. He also managed to not get close to getting a card for any of his tackles. One kick he was lucky that it stayed in perhaps, but it did. Another was too long, and whilst it was a poor chase, he should have recognised the fact that his main chasers weren't on that side of the pitch. But I'd not expect Farrell to have noted that either at the time.

Launch for me was his usual workmanlike self. I'd love to see the players GPS stats, since being in the right place at the right time is often more a result of working harder, rather than having some 6th sense etc.

Ludlam really did look good out there.

Think we're being harsh on Genge. 1 poor penalty (not as bad as others), very very good scrummaging throughout the 80 minutes, and not bad carries, OK he's not Mako, but who is. I don't know if Mako would have had the same scrum dominance. Once Cole was taken off, our scrum improved even further. Cole incidentally is surely done at this level now. I thought he'd had a bit more fire in him since he was dropped, but that was anonymous, and not even good in the scrum.

[morepork]

Ford will just have to suck it up and take the criticism on the chin.

Punnery aside, he so should be your first choice 10.

[Scrumhead]

Ludlam looked very good. He looked immediately at home and to come out of the game with 18 tackles (0 missed) and 10 carries. A very good debut.

[jngf]

Ludlam looked very good. He looked immediately at home and to come out of the game with 18 tackles (0 missed) and 10 carries. A very good debut.

Agreed! What I’m really encouraged by is that with players like Curry, Underhill, and Ludlum we have three authentic opensides who look more than capable of covering blindside too at test level if required. This in my opinion is a vast improvement on trying to get (first and foremost) blindsides like Robshaw, Wilson and Haskell to play as 6.5s in the 7 shirt at best!

[Banquo]

Considering we only conceded 8 in total, you’d think we did far better on that front, but there were four in a row (three for North’s try) and then another immediately (albeit I thought harsh with my one eye). That run of compounding penalties is the problem. It only happened once, which arguably is better, but some so utterly avoidable!

There was also a mini run including a free kick.....which cost a try too.

[Banquo]

This was my impression. Still, i'd expect Farrell needs to show something next week to ward off Ford's challenge.

Launchbury frustrates me, he's so good much of the time but then he seemingly disappears when England get under pressure. I expect i'm unfair on him but i just want him to take games by the scruff of the neck more.

Much more easy yards were given away by ridiculous penalties. That'd be my focus as a coach.

Likewise regards Launchbury

As for the penalties, agree. Still doesn’t mean Ford’s defence isn’t easy metres

Ford second highest completed tackle count, and I didn't think he conceded overly many today; I reckon Faz concedes similar or more through his misses.....in fact, the 10 channel is the softest in most teams.

[Puja]

Much more easy yards were given away by ridiculous penalties. That'd be my focus as a coach.

Likewise regards Launchbury

As for the penalties, agree. Still doesn’t mean Ford’s defence isn’t easy metres

Ford second highest completed tackle count, and I didn't think he conceded overly many today; I reckon Faz concedes similar or more through his misses.....in fact, the 10 channel is the softest in most teams.

Especially since repetition of the trope that Ford is a weak link means that sides always run their big carriers into him, meaning he is more likely to get dragged just because of the calibre of player running at him.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Times ratings:

ENGLAND

Elliot Daly Saracens, 26, 31 caps
No fumbled high balls, one try-saving tackle on Beard and a cheeky late drop goal. 7

Joe Cokanasiga Bath, 21, 5
Given the ball regularly and early. Direct from the start, scoring a pick-and-go try. 7

Jonathan Joseph Bath, 28, 41
Pulled Davies hither and thither with footwork. Fine marker in the No 13 battle. 7

Piers Francis Northampton, 29, 5
Handled Parkes gamely in defence and allowed Joseph space to roam in wider channels. 6


Anthony Watson Bath, 25, 34
Tremendous tackle on Tipuric but fended off by Jonathan Davies. Has not lost his pace. 7

George Ford Leicester, 26, 56
Exerted control with kicking game and took on the line. Goal kicking was the difference. 8

Willi Heinz Gloucester, 32, 1
Cute dinks and well-delayed passes, but shown up for pace by Gareth Davies. 6

Ellis Genge Leicester, 24, 10
Got his side up in the scrum and looked dominant. Surging early run brought Twickenham to life. 8

Luke Cowan-Dickie Exeter, 26, 12
Tidy. Carries with a thud and tackles with enthusiasm. Lineout throws solid too. 7

Dan Cole Leicester, 32, 86
Lacks all-action style of Kyle Sinckler. Made no carries and three tackles. Solid in the scrum. 5

Joe Launchbury Wasps, 28, 59
Prominent, offloading and linking with Curry and Vunipola early on and got head down. 6

Charlie Ewels Bath, 24, 11
Made tackles and lineout ran smoothly but unlikely to displace regular locks. 6

Lewis Ludlam Northampton, 23, 1
Worked with Joseph to force a knock-on with hit on Moriarty. Did not miss any of 19 tackles. 7

Tom Curry Sale, 21, 11
Opened Wales up in the build-up to Vunipola’s try and made an interception before injury. 7

Billy Vunipola Saracens, 26, 42
Not immaculate but staggering strength to finish try and carried with power throughout. 8