On and Off the Plane

[fivepointer]

Only player who I think can feel genuinely aggrieved is Williams.
He's lost out as his side of the scrum has been deemed not as important as the other. 2 TH's is a gamble.
He's been an ever present squad player for a couple of years and has accrued 17 caps. Moreover, he's lost out to a player who has done little at international level for the last couple of seasons and offers nothing outside of the scrum.

[Banquo]

Moon got his chance through injuries in the first place so not sure he can feel hard done by. Ewels is in an especially strong position as you say. Cips may be disgruntled, but can't be surprised. I can't really see who else will feel hard done by...Hughes, possibly.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't agree with them, but…

All of Hartley, Shields, Robshaw, Hughes, Care, and Brown were part of the building of the team over the past 4 years, now surplus to requirements
And I'd posit that none of them are playing worse lately than they did when they were first selected by EJ
Injuries at the wrong times meant that a lot of them dropped out of favour
and I do think the choices instead of them are improvements (generally) - but still could understand them feeling hard done by… justified or not haha

Hartley has barely played, and was falling away badly anyway; Shields.....didn't play well anyway and is now injured; Robshaw had lost form, and then was injured and overtaken by better players; Hughes, well maybe, but again, better players overtook him; Care I said was hard done by, and Brown had already been dropped once, which at his age usually only goes one way. Maybe I should have said, havent been hard done by, but may feel it

[Digby]

Cips has been ranting for a few days now, but still wants to support the group so isn't going to go public with his thoughts. No surprise really, anyone not getting picked for their once a four years shot is going to be pissed off, the oddity would be if they were sanguine about it

[Banquo]

Cips has been ranting for a few days now, but still wants to support the group so isn't going to go public with his thoughts. No surprise really, anyone not getting picked for their once a four years shot is going to be pissed off, the oddity would be if they were sanguine about it

There is pi55ed off, and there is hard done by .Be fascinating to see what Eddie would do if Faz was ruled out with injury.....

[Freddo]

Wonder if Teo and Brown would have been selected over McConnochie and Francis if they hadn't had a tiff? As Heinz has been picked I would have also chosen Cipriani over Francis simply for the club combination aspect. Also Danny is miles better than Piers . I know he can't cover 12 but Farrell, Slade and Manu can.

[Digby]

Cips has been ranting for a few days now, but still wants to support the group so isn't going to go public with his thoughts. No surprise really, anyone not getting picked for their once a four years shot is going to be pissed off, the oddity would be if they were sanguine about it

There is pi55ed off, and there is hard done by .Be fascinating to see what Eddie would do if Faz was ruled out with injury.....

Have the squad kill themselves by seppuku in honour of their fallen master.

Fwiw I think Cips has been a hard done by over the years, though some of that was Cips being harsh on the causes of Cips

[Banquo]

Cips has been ranting for a few days now, but still wants to support the group so isn't going to go public with his thoughts. No surprise really, anyone not getting picked for their once a four years shot is going to be pissed off, the oddity would be if they were sanguine about it

There is pi55ed off, and there is hard done by .Be fascinating to see what Eddie would do if Faz was ruled out with injury.....

Have the squad kill themselves by seppuku in honour of their fallen master.

Fwiw I think Cips has been a hard done by over the years, though some of that was Cips being harsh on the causes of Cips

Think Cips created most of his own problems until about 2 years ago. When he first appeared, I was a massive fan and thought he was a once in generation talent.

[loudnconfident]

Cips has been ranting for a few days now, but still wants to support the group so isn't going to go public with his thoughts. No surprise really, anyone not getting picked for their once a four years shot is going to be pissed off, the oddity would be if they were sanguine about it

Is'nt Cips first replacement as FH if there's an injury? I can't find the RWC injury procedure but I'm sure you can call replacements? In that case he would keep quiet...

[Numbers]

Cips has been ranting for a few days now, but still wants to support the group so isn't going to go public with his thoughts. No surprise really, anyone not getting picked for their once a four years shot is going to be pissed off, the oddity would be if they were sanguine about it

Is'nt Cips first replacement as FH if there's an injury? I can't find the RWC injury procedure but I'm sure you can call replacements? In that case he would keep quiet...

I think you can call in a replacement but you have to rule the injured player out for the rest of the tournament, so one in one out type of thing.

[Renniks]

Cips has been ranting for a few days now, but still wants to support the group so isn't going to go public with his thoughts. No surprise really, anyone not getting picked for their once a four years shot is going to be pissed off, the oddity would be if they were sanguine about it

Is'nt Cips first replacement as FH if there's an injury? I can't find the RWC injury procedure but I'm sure you can call replacements? In that case he would keep quiet...

I think you can call in a replacement but you have to rule the injured player out for the rest of the tournament, so one in one out type of thing.

Yarp - which is the ridiculousness of having only two Tight-heads -- I can't believe we might be in a situation of sending Sinckler home for a small niggle - but I'd assume EJ has thought about that, right?

[Digby]

Cips has been ranting for a few days now, but still wants to support the group so isn't going to go public with his thoughts. No surprise really, anyone not getting picked for their once a four years shot is going to be pissed off, the oddity would be if they were sanguine about it

Is'nt Cips first replacement as FH if there's an injury? I can't find the RWC injury procedure but I'm sure you can call replacements? In that case he would keep quiet...

I'm also willing to believe he wants the squad to do well, and doesn't want coverage of himself, especially not in a negative sense.

I don't know if he's the next cab off the rank, Slade can cover 10, and Francis can too

[richy678]

The other issue with selecting Cips is that it challenges the Faz Ford relationship. Eddie clearly builds the team around where they are going to play and both are probably pretty negative about Cips getting a look in.

He's had a run out covering fullback in recent times, he's quicker than Goode and a better runner, but Cips is an outside half, clearly.

Daly is not a fullback and should not be shoehorned in there. He is a class 13 or wing.

[Digby]

We have good options at 13 however, and actually I've never been that impressed with Daly as a 13, so whilst Daly could certainly return to being a winger we'd still have a problem over who to pick at 15. It'd be much easier if Watson had shined at 15 for England, but really Daly has looked better at 15 imo than Watson, and Nowell hasn't had a run there

[Numbers]

We have good options at 13 however, and actually I've never been that impressed with Daly as a 13, so whilst Daly could certainly return to being a winger we'd still have a problem over who to pick at 15. It'd be much easier if Watson had shined at 15 for England, but really Daly has looked better at 15 imo than Watson, and Nowell hasn't had a run there

I think Watson is the better 15, Daley was exposed twice yesterday, not really the man you want as the last line of defence.

[Digby]

We have good options at 13 however, and actually I've never been that impressed with Daly as a 13, so whilst Daly could certainly return to being a winger we'd still have a problem over who to pick at 15. It'd be much easier if Watson had shined at 15 for England, but really Daly has looked better at 15 imo than Watson, and Nowell hasn't had a run there

I think Watson is the better 15, Daley was exposed twice yesterday, not really the man you want as the last line of defence.

Watson certainly has the potential, but has looked worse than Daly when actually playing 15 for England. It's going to be one of them, and I'm not that fussed which, but I am amused people are deciding one will be better than the other when we've so obviously not actually seen it yet

[Spiffy]

Though that Mike Brown might have sneaked a place. He's still a hard nut, a fierce competitor and a real FB.

[Banquo]

We have good options at 13 however, and actually I've never been that impressed with Daly as a 13, so whilst Daly could certainly return to being a winger we'd still have a problem over who to pick at 15. It'd be much easier if Watson had shined at 15 for England, but really Daly has looked better at 15 imo than Watson, and Nowell hasn't had a run there

I think Watson is the better 15, Daley was exposed twice yesterday, not really the man you want as the last line of defence.

Watson certainly has the potential, but has looked worse than Daly when actually playing 15 for England. It's going to be one of them, and I'm not that fussed which, but I am amused people are deciding one will be better than the other when we've so obviously not actually seen it yet

Watson has played far less at 15 (3 starts) for England than Daly (13 ish) so it is not as straightforward as some have it, and didn't look great v Ireland. Daly has however not had one solid game in defence at 15, though has shown well in attack. I agree he isn't all that at 13 either. Watson is much better generally challenging for a high ball, where Daly has been heavily exposed.

[Mellsblue]

Some strange ratings here:

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/england- ... ssion=true


Elliot Daly – 6
A quiet first half for Daly as England dominated possession, particularly in the first quarter, and denied him the opportunity to counter-attack. He will want his missed tackle on Gareth Davies back, although he linked the midfield and wings well in the times he did inject himself into the attacking line. Deserved man of the match solely for his audacious late drop goal.

Joe Cokanasiga – 7
A bit of a mixed bag from Cokanasiga who was eager to look for work off of his wing and added to England’s power game around the fringes, coming into the game as a first receiver and pick and go option. On one loose Welsh kick he ran into traffic and was held up, coughing up the turnover as a result, whilst his first-up tackling on a couple of chases was inefficient, despite working hard to recover after. His physicality in attack was impressive.


Jonathan Joseph – 8
Joseph was very influential early on, making telling contributions with all of his involvements, whether that was with precise passing and outside breaks in attack, or ripping the ball out of contact in defence. His defensive work in general was intelligent and effective throughout.

Piers Francis – 7
If Francis’ role in the squad is to provide the Owen Farrell role from 2016 and 2017, he delivered at Twickenham. The Northampton inside centre put in a couple of thunderous tackles in defence and had soft hands to shift the point of contact in the midfield.

Anthony Watson – 9
A strong showing from the Bath man who looked lively and sharp, despite missing most of last season with injury. He was good in the aerial competitions, displayed effective footwork and power as a carrier and chased and covered very well without the ball. Like Cokanasiga, he looked hungry for work and came in off his wing numerous times.

George Ford – 6
A flawless kicking display will have pleased Jones, who will know he can rely on Ford’s boot in Japan if necessary. His tactical kicking fell short of Farrell’s with a few that were considerably beyond his chasers, although his play with ball in hand was solid and he linked well with Francis.

Willie Heinz – 7
A confident debut from Heinz, whose array and timing of his passes in attack was a contributor to an impressive England first half. He was caught for speed on the blindside of the scrum on a couple of occasions, although managed the game well aside from that.

Ellis Genge – 8
The loosehead caught the eye early with a typical bullocking carry, although it was his ability to turn the screw on Tomas Francis as the game went on that was the real takeaway. He held up well against early pressure from the Welsh scrum, before helping England gain an ascendancy.

Luke Cowan-Dickie – 7
The hooker swooped on an overthrown Welsh lineout to grab a try on his first international start and his carrying was effective, if not spectacular throughout. One of his lineouts went amiss and he coughed up an unnecessary offside penalty in the second half, although it was an encouraging display from a player that has previously been limited to a role as Jamie George’s deputy.


Dan Cole – 7
The Leicester tighthead provided a solid platform at the scrum and was able to provide his team with a turnover, as he forced a knock-on in defence. A solid 53-minute performance from the veteran.

Joe Launchbury – 6
Launchbury went well in the loose, linking play and offering himself as a carrier and an option in support. He was an effective target for Cowan-Dickie at the lineout, too.

Charlie Ewels – 7
England’s locking quartet is established at this point, although Ewels took his chance to impress greedily. He was an effective counter-rucker, pressured around the fringes for a charge down and had the line-speed to fit into England’s aggressive defence. He was targeted at the lineout successfully, too, taking two throws in the game.

Lewis Ludlam – 8
A very confident and composed debut from Ludlam, who contributed in a number of ways. He was a physical carrier close to the ruck, made a number of big tackles, including a notable one on Ross Moriarty, and was persistently hunting the scrum-half and first receives with his line-speed.

Tom Curry – 7
The flanker unfortunately had to hobble off after 28 minutes, although he was one of, if not the most impressive player on the pitch until his departure. His work rate was excellent as he tackled powerfully on the gain-line, popped up as a carrying threat on some incisive lines and made an important interception with his line-speed and read in defence.

Billy Vunipola – 7
A bright start saw Vunipola demonstrate his strength in the carry and his early try came with four Welsh players wrapped around him. His soft hands helped link a couple of English attacks, too, and he kept working hard throughout the game.

Written by a Mrs Farrell of St Albans?

Mr Shaw of England who, after giving him a 6 despite a very good performance, also wrote this tweet:

[Banquo]

I think Watson is the better 15, Daley was exposed twice yesterday, not really the man you want as the last line of defence.

Watson certainly has the potential, but has looked worse than Daly when actually playing 15 for England. It's going to be one of them, and I'm not that fussed which, but I am amused people are deciding one will be better than the other when we've so obviously not actually seen it yet

Watson has played far less at 15 (3 starts) for England than Daly (13 ish) so it is not as straightforward as some have it, and didn't look great v Ireland a couple of yeas ago. Daly has however not had one solid game in defence at 15, though has shown well in attack. I agree he isn't all that at 13 either. Watson is much better generally challenging for a high ball, where Daly has been heavily exposed

[Rich]

Jones has named his squad too early.

I'd drop Nowell or McConnochie for tight head prop Williams.

So Daley is a proven full back with Watson as his deputy? Big risk there.

Wilson as No 8 is too unproven, I'd take a 2nd No 8 - Hughes for Wilson

Dropping Te'o may be the right call but it limits England's midfield option. Francis is just an average club player who'll at best play one or two minor pool games.

[Digby]

Watson certainly has the potential, but has looked worse than Daly when actually playing 15 for England. It's going to be one of them, and I'm not that fussed which, but I am amused people are deciding one will be better than the other when we've so obviously not actually seen it yet

Watson has played far less at 15 (3 starts) for England than Daly (13 ish) so it is not as straightforward as some have it, and didn't look great v Ireland a couple of yeas ago. Daly has however not had one solid game in defence at 15, though has shown well in attack. I agree he isn't all that at 13 either. Watson is much better generally challenging for a high ball, where Daly has been heavily exposed

Leaving aside you're turning into Mells with repeat posting and quoting yourself I actually prefer Watson as a player, I'm merely hesitant to conclude the grass is obviously greener for England turning to Watson at 15 over Daly

[Renniks]

Jones has named his squad too early.

I'd drop Nowell or McConnochie for tight head prop Williams.

So Daley is a proven full back with Watson as his deputy? Big risk there.

Wilson as No 8 is too unproven, I'd take a 2nd No 8 - Hughes for Wilson

Dropping Te'o may be the right call but it limits England's midfield option. Francis is just an average club player who'll at best play one or two minor pool games.

I'm not sure what benefit waiting on naming the squad would have… He can still change it if the wheels falls off… but equally, doesn't have to fret about things

He's not going to be entertaining other options at 15

Wilson has done everything asked of him, and if we're swapping someone for another 8, it shouldn't be him

Te'o would limit the options even more for me - Tuilagi or Te'o - great. Francis at least covers 10, and gives a different dimension at 12… It also opens up options at 13 to being Slade, Joseph, or Tuilagi too

[Mr Mwenda]

Is the aim to play both Watson and Daly and both play as 14.5s perhaps?

[Beasties]

Only player who I think can feel genuinely aggrieved is Williams.
He's lost out as his side of the scrum has been deemed not as important as the other. 2 TH's is a gamble.
He's been an ever present squad player for a couple of years and has accrued 17 caps. Moreover, he's lost out to a player who has done little at international level for the last couple of seasons and offers nothing outside of the scrum.

This. Williams didn't pull up any trees on Sun but was involved which is more than could be said of Cole who did the grand total of sweet FA.

[Mellsblue]

Watson does at least play there regularly for his club, despite WT’s protestations to the contrary, and would maybe look the part as a test 15 if given a run as long as Daly. I’m not sure anyone is saying Watson will be Cullen MkII as soon as he puts on a white 15 shirt. Rather, he’d be a better 15 than Daly, who could go back to becoming a world class wing.