England vs Wales match thread - RWC warmup, Raeburn Shield challenge, and chance to take down the #1 ranked team

[Puja]

Which does seem to me utterly bananas.

We were all thinking it, thankfully someone has stepped forward to say it

I do pride myself on being an iconoclast.

Puja

[Digby]

Which does seem to me utterly bananas.

We were all thinking it, thankfully someone has stepped forward to say it

I do pride myself on being an iconoclast.

Puja

Possibly true, but I didn't think in this instance you were tearing down an icon. Maybe the legend of Which has grown so slowly I've simply not noticed, though granted it'd still have been moving faster than Heinz

[Mikey Brown]

Which does seem to me utterly bananas.

We were all thinking it, thankfully someone has stepped forward to say it

I do pride myself on being an iconoclast.

Puja

Are you claiming it?

[Which Tyler]

We were all thinking it, thankfully someone has stepped forward to say it

I do pride myself on being an iconoclast.

Puja

Possibly true, but I didn't think in this instance you were tearing down an icon. Maybe the legend of Which has grown so slowly I've simply not noticed, though granted it'd still have been moving faster than Heinz

I'm a legend in my own lunchtime - I'll have you know!

[Digby]

Interesting first half. Heinz started well and dropped off towards the end. Genge the opposite. Ford looking good. JJ moving well. Forwards coming on to the ball well. Ludlum has been very busy. Defensively very good. Worry about Curry, but hopefully precaution.

Credit to Davies. Both steps were bloody beautiful! There’s little crime in being done by class. Credit the scorer.

for finishing, yes, for making the break, big minuses on Ludlam and Billy imo.

Our overall defence was shoddy. JJ down for three missed tackles is a bit of a surprise. Ford 8 and 0 and second top

I did wonder if anyone had mentioned Ludlam as he seemingly was focused on getting stuck into the Welsh flanker and had no idea the ball had gone.

I'm not sure either why Cokanasiga was defending out on the left, that there was a breakdown between Heinz and Big Joe is understandable, that they're learning to play together this close to a WC somewhat odd

Still, we're back to the left winger issue, which is a nice circle to complete after a period of Daly and May

[Banquo]

Interesting first half. Heinz started well and dropped off towards the end. Genge the opposite. Ford looking good. JJ moving well. Forwards coming on to the ball well. Ludlum has been very busy. Defensively very good. Worry about Curry, but hopefully precaution.

Credit to Davies. Both steps were bloody beautiful! There’s little crime in being done by class. Credit the scorer.

for finishing, yes, for making the break, big minuses on Ludlam and Billy imo.

Our overall defence was shoddy. JJ down for three missed tackles is a bit of a surprise. Ford 8 and 0 and second top

I did wonder if anyone had mentioned Ludlam as he seemingly was focused on getting stuck into the Welsh flanker and had no idea the ball had gone.

I'm not sure either why Cokanasiga was defending out on the left, that there was a breakdown between Heinz and Big Joe is understandable, that they're learning to play together this close to a WC somewhat odd

Still, we're back to the left winger issue, which is a nice circle to complete after a period of Daly and May

I think Daly would be fine to return to the left, accepting that the nuance of defending the blindside from a scrum is a crucial left wngers skills.
Two fold issue with Ludlam- he both stayed bound a fraction loo long, and was then held (but I think that actually made no difference.

[Raggs]

Agree that being held made no difference by then, but a different run of play may well have seen that the hold meant he was out of position of the next phase etc.

For me the back three would be May, Coka, Watson, with Daly on the bench. Youngs, ford, may, manu, slade, coka, watson. With Farrell and Daly benching. Covers all positions 11-15, mix of power, distribution and speed.

[Banquo]

Agree that being held made no difference by then, but a different run of play may well have seen that the hold meant he was out of position of the next phase etc.

For me the back three would be May, Coka, Watson, with Daly on the bench. Youngs, ford, may, manu, slade, coka, watson. With Farrell and Daly benching. Covers all positions 11-15, mix of power, distribution and speed.

I was merely pointing out that the initial fault was all down to Ludlam.

Your back three is attractive in terms of individual running skills, but kicking would be a tad problematic imo, as would linking the backfield as counterattackers.

[loudnconfident]

Initial thoughts:

England great in attack, leaky in places in defence.

Wales looked a bit ‘undercooked’

[deleted]

Daly’s a highly skilled footballer but still looks uncomfortable at fullback - Brown might have come into his own in that type of game?

I just fear that Daly is not a natural (or indeed club) FB and, when things are tough, you need the instinct. Which is not to say he looks awesome when England are on top: scything runs from the back, or even the occasional drop goal. But in times of stress, you need a nutter who can catch and tackle.

Wrt Wales, we were lucky that there lineout faltered. Once of course for LCDs try at HT, and again in the 2nd half when (again) Daly took the ball into touch from a Welsh clearance, and when Wales were on a roll. Lucky they lost their LO and could'nt launch an attack...

[Banquo]

Think we may need to work on our support lines

[Renniks]

Moriarty does great to catch Manu here, the line obviously helps but it was still impressive to see (that 3 stone saving on Billy… also explaining why he got absolutely flattened by Billy)

[ad_tigger]

That is a hell of a pic. To be fair, LCD is in shot just hidden behind the welsh guy in the scrum cap. Good job too as Manu would've been turned over if he hadn't got to the resulting ruck sharpish. (I only spotted him after going to rugbydump to watch the video and check that the photo wasn't a fake.

[Banquo]

That is a hell of a pic. To be fair, LCD is in shot just hidden behind the welsh guy in the scrum cap. Good job too as Manu would've been turned over if he hadn't got to the resulting ruck sharpish. (I only spotted him after going to rugbydump to watch the video and check that the photo wasn't a fake.

good spot. You'd think if we got quick ball there Wales would be utterly screwed.

[Banquo]

Moriarty does great to catch Manu here, the line obviously helps but it was still impressive to see (that 3 stone saving on Billy… also explaining why he got absolutely flattened by Billy)

Thought Billy looked pretty trim and all the better for it.

[Renniks]

Moriarty does great to catch Manu here, the line obviously helps but it was still impressive to see (that 3 stone saving on Billy… also explaining why he got absolutely flattened by Billy)

Thought Billy looked pretty trim and all the better for it.

Yeah - I thought he was looking svelte too, just amusing that the stats said he was 3 stone heavier and the same height as Moriarty

To then get absolutely flattened by Billy made it all the more realistic sounding

[Digby]

That is a hell of a pic. To be fair, LCD is in shot just hidden behind the welsh guy in the scrum cap. Good job too as Manu would've been turned over if he hadn't got to the resulting ruck sharpish. (I only spotted him after going to rugbydump to watch the video and check that the photo wasn't a fake.

good spot. You'd think if we got quick ball there Wales would be utterly screwed.

Just because two thirds of the Welsh defence would be stood within 5m of each other doesn't mean we could find and use the space.

[Which Tyler]

That is a hell of a pic. To be fair, LCD is in shot just hidden behind the welsh guy in the scrum cap. Good job too as Manu would've been turned over if he hadn't got to the resulting ruck sharpish. (I only spotted him after going to rugbydump to watch the video and check that the photo wasn't a fake.

good spot. You'd think if we got quick ball there Wales would be utterly screwed.

Just because two thirds of the Welsh defence would be stood within 5m of each other doesn't mean we could find and use the space.

Yo'ure forgetting - Farrell was in the stands

[Raggs]

Agree that being held made no difference by then, but a different run of play may well have seen that the hold meant he was out of position of the next phase etc.

For me the back three would be May, Coka, Watson, with Daly on the bench. Youngs, ford, may, manu, slade, coka, watson. With Farrell and Daly benching. Covers all positions 11-15, mix of power, distribution and speed.

I was merely pointing out that the initial fault was all down to Ludlam.

Your back three is attractive in terms of individual running skills, but kicking would be a tad problematic imo, as would linking the backfield as counterattackers.

Ford spends a huge amount of time in the backfield when defending, works well on quick counter attacks, as Slade is still there immediately to take advantage. Virtually every time Daly took one of the overly long welsh kicks, he passed to Ford to do something with it. Also helps with the kicking. Don't think May or Watson are awful kickers either, no idea on big Joe. Truth is though, 9 times out of 10, I'd rather that back three be running it back .

[Banquo]

Agree that being held made no difference by then, but a different run of play may well have seen that the hold meant he was out of position of the next phase etc.

For me the back three would be May, Coka, Watson, with Daly on the bench. Youngs, ford, may, manu, slade, coka, watson. With Farrell and Daly benching. Covers all positions 11-15, mix of power, distribution and speed.

I was merely pointing out that the initial fault was all down to Ludlam.

Your back three is attractive in terms of individual running skills, but kicking would be a tad problematic imo, as would linking the backfield as counterattackers.

Ford spends a huge amount of time in the backfield when defending, works well on quick counter attacks, as Slade is still there immediately to take advantage. Virtually every time Daly took one of the overly long welsh kicks, he passed to Ford to do something with it. Also helps with the kicking. Don't think May or Watson are awful kickers either, no idea on big Joe. Truth is though, 9 times out of 10, I'd rather that back three be running it back .

I think you are overstating how much Ford is in the backfield; and the point I made still stands about the collective footballing skills of your back 3- none has test standard kicking nor the ability to link play. Sure I like them to run, but it lacks balance and sometimes you just need to get it out of play. Nice problem to have in some ways.

[Raggs]

I could happily rewatch the last game if you can find me a link? I just recall Ford getting pass after pass from Daly.

[Banquo]

I could happily rewatch the last game if you can find me a link? I just recall Ford getting pass after pass from Daly.

and what was Slade doing . I don't have the same memory (huge amount), but not going to fall out over it. When Ford did get a pass in the backfield, and I remember two, he kicked it.

Maybe its a personal preference, but I like a good all round footballer in the back three, who helps co=ordinate the others, and I really do think that its important that there is a class kicker in the back three, and not just for length, but the occasional chip through etc.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Moriarty does great to catch Manu here, the line obviously helps but it was still impressive to see (that 3 stone saving on Billy… also explaining why he got absolutely flattened by Billy)

Thought Billy looked pretty trim and all the better for it.

He’s dropped the best part of a stone since the Grand Slam.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I could happily rewatch the last game if you can find me a link? I just recall Ford getting pass after pass from Daly.

and what was Slade doing . I don't have the same memory (huge amount), but not going to fall out over it. When Ford did get a pass in the backfield, and I remember two, he kicked it.

Maybe its a personal preference, but I like a good all round footballer in the back three, who helps co=ordinate the others, and I really do think that its important that there is a class kicker in the back three, and not just for length, but the occasional chip through etc.

Think he passed one, where we fielded the high ball on our right, went left to Ford who then gave to the Cokanasige.

And totally agree on a kicker in the back three. Watson is a decent clearer to touch, but I’d not think of him tactically kicking.

[Banquo]

I could happily rewatch the last game if you can find me a link? I just recall Ford getting pass after pass from Daly.

and what was Slade doing . I don't have the same memory (huge amount), but not going to fall out over it. When Ford did get a pass in the backfield, and I remember two, he kicked it.

Maybe its a personal preference, but I like a good all round footballer in the back three, who helps co=ordinate the others, and I really do think that its important that there is a class kicker in the back three, and not just for length, but the occasional chip through etc.

Think he passed one, where we fielded the high ball on our right, went left to Ford who then gave to the Cokanasige.

And totally agree on a kicker in the back three. Watson is a decent clearer to touch, but I’d not think of him tactically kicking.

ah ok.

[Oakboy]

Being in a position of having to leave out two from Daly, May, Watson, Coka and Nowell is useful. Quite why McConnochie is there other than as injury cover for Nowell is mystifying. It's not to suggest that he's not good enough, just that he's supernumerary.

Incidentally, has Francis played at FB?