Then and now

[fivepointer]

The 2015 WC squad
Marler, Vunipola, George, Webber, Youngs, Cole, Wilson, Brookes
Parling, Kruis, Launchbury, Lawes
Robshaw, Easter, Haskell, Wood, Vunipola, Morgan
Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
Ford, Farrell
Slade, Burgess, Barritt, Joseph
May, Nowell, Watson, Goode, Brown

Thats 15 players who return for this years event.
Cole, Lawes, Youngs and Tuilagi played in 2011.

Where are we better now than we were 4 years ago? Having a couple of opensides is obviously a big step forward, but where else?

[Renniks]

For me, we're better than the 2015 squad across the board with the exception of maybe scrum-half and full-back

[Puja]

Extra four years of development in Mako, George, BillyV, and May have changed them from also-rans into having good shouts to be top three in their positions in the world at least. Same is true for Kruis, Lawes, Slade, and Joseph to a lesser extent.

Puja

[Danno]

God, backrow and centre were utter pish.

I'd all but forgotten about Wilson. He had a storming 2014 6N if I remember right

[Banquo]

A balanced and dynamic backrow is 20% of the side by numbers, and more by influence.
Starting front row is much better for carrying, and Mako is a much better player now.
Itoje is a big upgrade on Parling.
Burgess and Barritt were pony.
Daly is a top class runner at intl level.

and as Puja says, more years experience for many is important.

[Banquo]

Extra four years of development in Mako, George, BillyV, and May have changed them from also-rans into having good shouts to be top three in their positions in the world at least. Same is true for Kruis, Lawes, Slade, and Joseph to a lesser extent.

Puja

Billy wasn't an also ran at the world cup, he was one player who turned up, but got injured! Stormer v Wales.

[Puja]

Extra four years of development in Mako, George, BillyV, and May have changed them from also-rans into having good shouts to be top three in their positions in the world at least. Same is true for Kruis, Lawes, Slade, and Joseph to a lesser extent.

Puja

Billy wasn't an also ran at the world cup, he was one player who turned up, but got injured! Stormer v Wales.

He wasn't a superstar at that point though - he was a rough diamond who wasn't even guaranteed his place in the team. He was the best of those four and probably unfair to say also-ran, but he was very definitely an England squad player rather than challenging to be the best 8 in the world.

Puja

[Oakboy]

We will have exactly the same problems at 9/10 but perhaps the improvement in every other position (personnel or progress) will compensate.

[Banquo]

Extra four years of development in Mako, George, BillyV, and May have changed them from also-rans into having good shouts to be top three in their positions in the world at least. Same is true for Kruis, Lawes, Slade, and Joseph to a lesser extent.

Puja

Billy wasn't an also ran at the world cup, he was one player who turned up, but got injured! Stormer v Wales.

He wasn't a superstar at that point though - he was a rough diamond who wasn't even guaranteed his place in the team. He was the best of those four and probably unfair to say also-ran, but he was very definitely an England squad player rather than challenging to be the best 8 in the world.

Puja

Hence me saying he wasn't an also ran . He had 19 caps going into the World Cup in 2015 btw, most as a starter.

[Peat]

Enjoyable pedantry on where exactly Billy was back then, the point of him having developed since then is a good one.

There's very few things I'd swap about this team for back then and tbf, I think a lot of us were consoling ourselves back then that given the squad's age, this was more likely to be their time anyway.

[Banquo]

Enjoyable pedantry on where exactly Billy was back then, the point of him having developed since then is a good one.

There's very few things I'd swap about this team for back then and tbf, I think a lot of us were consoling ourselves back then that given the squad's age, this was more likely to be their time anyway.

I had very low hopes for the 2015 squad. It was a buggers muddle.

[Peat]

Enjoyable pedantry on where exactly Billy was back then, the point of him having developed since then is a good one.

There's very few things I'd swap about this team for back then and tbf, I think a lot of us were consoling ourselves back then that given the squad's age, this was more likely to be their time anyway.

I had very low hopes for the 2015 squad. It was a buggers muddle.

Quite.

I wish there was access to the posts we made back then. I recall a slow dawning sense through the summer that Lancaster was out of his depth and the Emperor had no clothes, most of us trying to deny it and that it'd be alright on the night. Car crash stuff. But that might be revisionist.

Still, praise be that we no longer have a coach who'll rewrite his script just before the big event

[Renniks]

At least EJ has history of performing quite well in RWCs

But, still, nothing like an England set-up to change that!

[fivepointer]

Enjoyable pedantry on where exactly Billy was back then, the point of him having developed since then is a good one.

There's very few things I'd swap about this team for back then and tbf, I think a lot of us were consoling ourselves back then that given the squad's age, this was more likely to be their time anyway.

I had very low hopes for the 2015 squad. It was a buggers muddle.

Quite.

I wish there was access to the posts we made back then. I recall a slow dawning sense through the summer that Lancaster was out of his depth and the Emperor had no clothes, most of us trying to deny it and that it'd be alright on the night. Car crash stuff. But that might be revisionist.

Still, praise be that we no longer have a coach who'll rewrite his script just before the big event

Last time out I had similar misgivings. i think none of us felt particularly confident.

we are in a better place now, though i do wish we could have moved on at 9 and 12.